I actually want to run Thief of Blood in my deck. I don't see it as something I'd go to on the regular, but rather a toolbox option. Perhaps I'm facing down a large +1/+1 counter deck, or Planeswalker deck. He snatches away everything my opponents have worked for. This little guy may snatch all my own counters, but if I sac him to one of our many outlets prior to swinging then I'd get all my counters back when I swing at the throne. Also, Unspeakable Symbol gives us back our counters, as does some of our other creature sac outlets. Thief of Blood Isn't a card I would look to play every game, just like Aura Thief and Feldon of the Third Path.
I'm not really feeling the other cards. They are cheaper and faster yes, but they require targeting themselves and tapping. Hell's Caretaker is not only tutorable, but it also lets it sacrifice anything else or itself. Sure this is balanced by being slower, but it allows me to sac creatures with +1/+1 counters and not only get them back at the end of turn, but get them back and have a friend with them. I wouldn't use Necromancy due to it still giving things summoning sickness and possibly killing them at the end of turn without counters.
Caretaker is still in the testing stage for me. Last week I only got to play my Rafiq and Mishra decks.
I added Caretaker to my deck but haven't gotten to play with it yet. With it's 4 CMC and ability to sacrifice and bring back something else we might have lost earlier, it seems like a possibly nice addition. It can even sac itself in a pinch to bring something back.
Chainer I am still on the fence on and am still unable to find a copy of. I think it's be nice to steal and sac other's creatures, and even though it is 3 Black mana and 3 life, it still gives access to all the graves.
So I just got back from my weekly Commander night, and boy was it fun! Only got to play 2 games, one with my Mishra and one with Marchesa, and boy did Marchesa put in work!
I ended up fighting a Riku of Two Reflections, Thassa, God of the sea, and Derevi, Empyrial Tactician. The game started out slow and everyone's commanders came out. The Riku and Deveri made the mistakes of playing cards to let me draw more and play up to 2 extra lands a turn. Needless to say I got some serious ramp. Within no time I had Marchesa and Solemn on the field sacking with Dimir House Guard adding more to the ramp and draw until I began to abuse Rune Scarred Demon. By turn 6 I had Dragonlord Silumgar taking control of Riku, Scourge of the Throne and a copy of it, and I had Silumgar, the Drifting Death. I ended up killing the Riku and Thassa player with the multiple combats (only swing one Scourge at a time) and the multiple dragons giving their creatures tons of -1/-1.
I was finally killed off when my field was hit with Cyclonic Rift and I just couldn't recover from the bounce cards Derevi began to play. It was a pretty fun game. The Riku player complained I kept his commander for a good portion of the game, but he also didn't grasp the concept that he needed to stop gaining life so he wouldn't be on the throne. Overall, the two Silumgar definitely put in work in my deck!
You know, the more I think about it, the more I like Dragonlord Silumgar in the demon's spot. It's one more expensive but its not any more or less tutorable and I almost always prefer stealing over destroying, and with no upkeep cost. Plus it can also hit walkers which as others have pointed out is definitely a solid plus. I always find walkers really annoying since I can't get a dethrone trigger by attacking them so I'd appreciate another way of getting rid of them.
I have been running Dragonlord Silumgar and as much as I love him, he doesn't pull as much weight as when I first put him in. I'm tempted to try out his original form, Silumgar, the Drifting Death, because of the flying, hex proof, and the -1/-1 he gives the defending players. Pairing the original Silumgar and Scourge of the Throne while attacking two players also sounds like a fun thing to do. Either way, because of my play groups, I'll probably keep one of them in there. I'm trying to get a Drifting Death to test play.
Meant to reply to CentralCommand...I derped so it's edited to show the right quote.
Don't forget as well, if you get Mikaeus and Marchesa out, you have an immortal Fleshwrither. I am able to do it constantly, which lets me tutor for days.
Cavern of Souls can be a powerful card if you do plan to use a lot of wizards. It's also searchable with Tolaria West. In my build, I wouldn't see much use of it due to my subpar use of wizards, but each build is different.
The cards that pull their weight will vary between everyone due to different gaming groups, but I would definitely vouch for these cards pulling all of their weight:
Fleshwrither - if you can cast him and then transfigure him in the same turn, he is a wonderful toolbox for anything you might need in your deck (assuming you run a good amount of CMC 4) Unspeakable Symbol - Great synergy with Marchesa, and lets us not only get away from the throne, but also add counters for Marchesa's recursion. Clever Impersonator - Being able to get a copy of just about anything is fairly awesome. Disciple of Bolas - One of the better cards in my opinion, and one of the most searched cards by me with Fleshwrither. He helps to get our hand up in a pinch and gives us some life incase we've lost just a bit too much. Spellskite - Great for not only saving things on our board while losing life (if you choose to do it that way), but also lets us steal other people's possibly buffs and even politic saving someone for a later favor. Tolaria West - Easy way to find Cabal Coffers, Urborg, Tomb of Yagmoth, and Bojuka Bog. Aura Thief - Do you like that pillow fort they have, or maybe that Rhystic Study? Great, sac this guy and TAKE ALL THE ENCHANTMENTS! Necropotence - Works wonders mid-game when you either need new cards or need to get off the throne. Sage of Fables - If she is on the board before Marchesa is on the field, she's pretty neat and sets up for an immortal Marchesa. Profaner of the Dead - It's a pseudo board wipe and if timed correctly can be down right nasty!
These next ones are helpful for my play groups, and may not be great in other builds: Dragonlord Silumgar - I thought I would just try him for kicks, but in my group he really shines. He steals, flies, and murders. Flying is a bit of an issue in the groups I play with, so flying defense is a must. Desecration Demon - Speaking of flying defense, this guy is also a nice flight deterrent. If Marchesa is out and they tap him, I can simply sac him and have him return later. Grave Betrayal - Good in my build, but, also makes me an instant target. Probably going to take this out for the new Sidisi once I get her. Rakdos Charm - Just like flying is a problem in my groups, so is reanimation, and for 2 mana I can get a quick fix. It also allows me to kills a token deck for 2 mana if they decide to spam their tokens. Soul Manipulation - Small counter and allows for me to fetch something I might need from the grave. Usually both. Perplex - Only running this other counter because it will force them to make a decision, or I can transmute it for something else I might need. Lim-Dul's Vault - Helps me to scry 5, and if I don't like them, then I can take 1 and move farther from the throne and scry some more. Plus it's an instant so I can do it at my opponents end step. Dimir Doppelganger - Did I mention that reanimation was a thing in my groups? This also lets me hit my own grave. I've had to do this a few times after my Living Death has been countered. It's an all around versatile mid to late game card. Tauren Mauler - This...This guy is fun. Either everyone buffs him and he becomes threatening, or someone kills him with Marchesa present and he gets to come back and be threatening again. Mauler is all around a win in my deck.
I honestly built mine with a base of Solrune's, and aside from cards I'll not be able to afford for a long time, I've modified it to my personal play style and group setting. For example, I've never found uses for Puppeteer Clique or Gray merchant of Asphodel, so I swapped them out for something I could find more useful. When I get more free time later, I'll have to post a current version of my deck.
I haven't gotten my hands on the new Sidisi, but the profaner has indeed pulled his weight. I'm hoping to get a Sidisi this Thursday at our shop's EDH night and try her out. not sure exactly what to cut yet, but I'll find something.
Also, it may just be my meta, but the new Silumgar has proven his worth too. A big ole flyer who when played right has stolen some very important cards. One of the best was stealing someone's Jace the Mind Sculptor. I can say I owned a Mind Sculptor by proxy now...and for that I'm happy. But, Silumgar may just be decent in my meta, just like how Desecration Demon is good in my meta for a tutor-able flying blocker (or a sac-able critter if they have me tap it.)
I absolutely love this deck style! Any advice for someone thinking of setting off and building this thing? (:
One of the cheapest, but amazingly (for me) hard to find cards for this deck is Fleshwrither! Using him and a few other original Ravnica Transmute cards for CMC 3 and 4 make the deck very versatile. I run my deck almost exclusively on CMC 3 and 4 so as to make everything available in a pinch.
T3 drop Mindslicer, T4 Sidisi exploits Mindslicer. Everyone discards except you tutor Necropotence HAHAHA :)) Will find room in the deck for this Zombie Naga :))
I continue to look at her, and I see she has wonderful potential, and I have even considered this combo myself since I recently got a mind slicer (Though i originally misread it and thought it was everyone but me discards their hands, oh well ). My only problem is that I would want her to be easily accessible. I've built my deck to be a balance of control and offense, with the ability to transfigure or transmute in CMC 3 and 4. Most of the 1,2,5,6,and 7 drops are cards either I happily draw in to, sort with Lim-dul's vault, or keep from my opening hand. So while I see the potential for the combo above, I also don't see myself doing it by maybe once every 10-15 games or so. I don't have a reliable way to tutor anything that isn't a CMC3 or 4. Rune Scarred helps, but he also needs a lot to get put out. I'm considering finding the money and room to put in a few actual tutor cards, like demonic tutor and more like it.
I honestly find more use out of Dragonlord Silumgar, since he flies, has death touch, decent stats, and lets me steal something my opponent may be quite fond of.
I've built my deck close to Rune's build, but I also have it so I can keep a bit of my own individuality in it...I also don't have the funds to get some of the more expensive cards Rune uses. Keep in mind that my Marchesa is exclusively for 3+ player games (I use Rafiq for my 1v1 games). Here are a few of my personal All-Stars that have changed games for me...
Tauren Mauler: GREAT card once Marchesa is on the field. He not only builds up power, but he also saves himself if he dies while Marchesa is on the field.
Dimir Doppelganger: For those times when you can't get the graveyard hate, need/want to steal something your opponent lost to the grave, OR if you want to reincarnate your own creature. I had one game where I made it into a copy of GrimGrin, Corpse-Born and went to town with sacing effects and swinging. Sometimes, I feel this is a better card over Puppeteer Clique, only because it's easier to cast and I never want to cast Clique when it shows up.
Chromatic Lantern: Fixes my mana issues, and produces mana itself. Not always readily available, but when it does show up it puts in work.
Lim-Dul's Vault: Not only does it lower my life to help with dethrone, but it also allows me to do an in-depth scry. Every time it's shown up, it's been used to change the entire flow of my deck, and its always been for the better.
Soul Manipulation: It's the only counter I use, and mostly because not only does it disrupt my opponents flow, but it allows me to grab a creature from my grave and give it a second chance to impress the Black Rose.
Desecration Demon: It's not something my opponents expect, but it does it's job. Either they pay the price to tap and give it a counter, thus lowering their board presence and giving him a chance to revive by Marchesa, OR I get a 6/6 flying blocker (or attacker) to ave myself from flying threats.
Abyssal Persecutor: holds mostly the same idea as Desecration Demon, but also adds trample. I've also had a few opponents (2), who have let themselves get low in life because he is on the field, only for me to sac him and let myself or another end that player. However, he is mostly in there for a cheap 6/6 flying defense.
Oona, Queen of the Fae: A bit pricey mana wise, but if she lives, she causes hell for mono-colored decks, a few of which run at my locals. Duel colors also get hit nicely. 3 or more colors and she becomes iffy, but overall she is a nice addition for her role. Her milling in combo with graveyard exile or Dimir Doppelganger can sometimes be fantastic, especially if she mills something awesome.
Those are my unique All-Stars. Each has a special place to me, and if I had to, I think only Soul Manipulation and Abyssal Persecutor would get removed. Otherwise, each of them has helped me on multiple occasions, and have earned their place among Marchesa's army.
I figured since I have been following this thread since I started my Marchesa deck, I would post my version here and see what you thought of it. I have a similar build with a few personal touches to it. I used the same format Solrune used for their original deck list, and removed the cards I don't have and added the ones I use for my personal touch.
In gatherings and play testings, Marchesa does decently (I don't play to win so much as I play to have fun and cause shenanigans). There is another Marchesa deck where I play, and so which ever one of us gains power first tends to be the target. I haven't played everyone at my locals (having just moved to a new area), but for the most part there are GrimGrins, Marchesa, Maelstrom Wanderer, and Thassa.
So let me know your opinions! I'm eager to hear them and I love questions and criticism!
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Caretaker is still in the testing stage for me. Last week I only got to play my Rafiq and Mishra decks.
I added Caretaker to my deck but haven't gotten to play with it yet. With it's 4 CMC and ability to sacrifice and bring back something else we might have lost earlier, it seems like a possibly nice addition. It can even sac itself in a pinch to bring something back.
Chainer I am still on the fence on and am still unable to find a copy of. I think it's be nice to steal and sac other's creatures, and even though it is 3 Black mana and 3 life, it still gives access to all the graves.
I ended up fighting a Riku of Two Reflections, Thassa, God of the sea, and Derevi, Empyrial Tactician. The game started out slow and everyone's commanders came out. The Riku and Deveri made the mistakes of playing cards to let me draw more and play up to 2 extra lands a turn. Needless to say I got some serious ramp. Within no time I had Marchesa and Solemn on the field sacking with Dimir House Guard adding more to the ramp and draw until I began to abuse Rune Scarred Demon. By turn 6 I had Dragonlord Silumgar taking control of Riku, Scourge of the Throne and a copy of it, and I had Silumgar, the Drifting Death. I ended up killing the Riku and Thassa player with the multiple combats (only swing one Scourge at a time) and the multiple dragons giving their creatures tons of -1/-1.
I was finally killed off when my field was hit with Cyclonic Rift and I just couldn't recover from the bounce cards Derevi began to play. It was a pretty fun game. The Riku player complained I kept his commander for a good portion of the game, but he also didn't grasp the concept that he needed to stop gaining life so he wouldn't be on the throne. Overall, the two Silumgar definitely put in work in my deck!
I have been running Dragonlord Silumgar and as much as I love him, he doesn't pull as much weight as when I first put him in. I'm tempted to try out his original form, Silumgar, the Drifting Death, because of the flying, hex proof, and the -1/-1 he gives the defending players. Pairing the original Silumgar and Scourge of the Throne while attacking two players also sounds like a fun thing to do. Either way, because of my play groups, I'll probably keep one of them in there. I'm trying to get a Drifting Death to test play.
Meant to reply to CentralCommand...I derped so it's edited to show the right quote.
The cards that pull their weight will vary between everyone due to different gaming groups, but I would definitely vouch for these cards pulling all of their weight:
Fleshwrither - if you can cast him and then transfigure him in the same turn, he is a wonderful toolbox for anything you might need in your deck (assuming you run a good amount of CMC 4)
Unspeakable Symbol - Great synergy with Marchesa, and lets us not only get away from the throne, but also add counters for Marchesa's recursion.
Clever Impersonator - Being able to get a copy of just about anything is fairly awesome.
Disciple of Bolas - One of the better cards in my opinion, and one of the most searched cards by me with Fleshwrither. He helps to get our hand up in a pinch and gives us some life incase we've lost just a bit too much.
Spellskite - Great for not only saving things on our board while losing life (if you choose to do it that way), but also lets us steal other people's possibly buffs and even politic saving someone for a later favor.
Tolaria West - Easy way to find Cabal Coffers, Urborg, Tomb of Yagmoth, and Bojuka Bog.
Aura Thief - Do you like that pillow fort they have, or maybe that Rhystic Study? Great, sac this guy and TAKE ALL THE ENCHANTMENTS!
Necropotence - Works wonders mid-game when you either need new cards or need to get off the throne.
Sage of Fables - If she is on the board before Marchesa is on the field, she's pretty neat and sets up for an immortal Marchesa.
Profaner of the Dead - It's a pseudo board wipe and if timed correctly can be down right nasty!
These next ones are helpful for my play groups, and may not be great in other builds:
Dragonlord Silumgar - I thought I would just try him for kicks, but in my group he really shines. He steals, flies, and murders. Flying is a bit of an issue in the groups I play with, so flying defense is a must.
Desecration Demon - Speaking of flying defense, this guy is also a nice flight deterrent. If Marchesa is out and they tap him, I can simply sac him and have him return later.
Grave Betrayal - Good in my build, but, also makes me an instant target. Probably going to take this out for the new Sidisi once I get her.
Rakdos Charm - Just like flying is a problem in my groups, so is reanimation, and for 2 mana I can get a quick fix. It also allows me to kills a token deck for 2 mana if they decide to spam their tokens.
Soul Manipulation - Small counter and allows for me to fetch something I might need from the grave. Usually both.
Perplex - Only running this other counter because it will force them to make a decision, or I can transmute it for something else I might need.
Lim-Dul's Vault - Helps me to scry 5, and if I don't like them, then I can take 1 and move farther from the throne and scry some more. Plus it's an instant so I can do it at my opponents end step.
Dimir Doppelganger - Did I mention that reanimation was a thing in my groups? This also lets me hit my own grave. I've had to do this a few times after my Living Death has been countered. It's an all around versatile mid to late game card.
Tauren Mauler - This...This guy is fun. Either everyone buffs him and he becomes threatening, or someone kills him with Marchesa present and he gets to come back and be threatening again. Mauler is all around a win in my deck.
I honestly built mine with a base of Solrune's, and aside from cards I'll not be able to afford for a long time, I've modified it to my personal play style and group setting. For example, I've never found uses for Puppeteer Clique or Gray merchant of Asphodel, so I swapped them out for something I could find more useful. When I get more free time later, I'll have to post a current version of my deck.
Also, it may just be my meta, but the new Silumgar has proven his worth too. A big ole flyer who when played right has stolen some very important cards. One of the best was stealing someone's Jace the Mind Sculptor. I can say I owned a Mind Sculptor by proxy now...and for that I'm happy. But, Silumgar may just be decent in my meta, just like how Desecration Demon is good in my meta for a tutor-able flying blocker (or a sac-able critter if they have me tap it.)
One of the cheapest, but amazingly (for me) hard to find cards for this deck is Fleshwrither! Using him and a few other original Ravnica Transmute cards for CMC 3 and 4 make the deck very versatile. I run my deck almost exclusively on CMC 3 and 4 so as to make everything available in a pinch.
I continue to look at her, and I see she has wonderful potential, and I have even considered this combo myself since I recently got a mind slicer (Though i originally misread it and thought it was everyone but me discards their hands, oh well ). My only problem is that I would want her to be easily accessible. I've built my deck to be a balance of control and offense, with the ability to transfigure or transmute in CMC 3 and 4. Most of the 1,2,5,6,and 7 drops are cards either I happily draw in to, sort with Lim-dul's vault, or keep from my opening hand. So while I see the potential for the combo above, I also don't see myself doing it by maybe once every 10-15 games or so. I don't have a reliable way to tutor anything that isn't a CMC3 or 4. Rune Scarred helps, but he also needs a lot to get put out. I'm considering finding the money and room to put in a few actual tutor cards, like demonic tutor and more like it.
I honestly find more use out of Dragonlord Silumgar, since he flies, has death touch, decent stats, and lets me steal something my opponent may be quite fond of.
Tauren Mauler: GREAT card once Marchesa is on the field. He not only builds up power, but he also saves himself if he dies while Marchesa is on the field.
Dimir Doppelganger: For those times when you can't get the graveyard hate, need/want to steal something your opponent lost to the grave, OR if you want to reincarnate your own creature. I had one game where I made it into a copy of GrimGrin, Corpse-Born and went to town with sacing effects and swinging. Sometimes, I feel this is a better card over Puppeteer Clique, only because it's easier to cast and I never want to cast Clique when it shows up.
Chromatic Lantern: Fixes my mana issues, and produces mana itself. Not always readily available, but when it does show up it puts in work.
Lim-Dul's Vault: Not only does it lower my life to help with dethrone, but it also allows me to do an in-depth scry. Every time it's shown up, it's been used to change the entire flow of my deck, and its always been for the better.
Soul Manipulation: It's the only counter I use, and mostly because not only does it disrupt my opponents flow, but it allows me to grab a creature from my grave and give it a second chance to impress the Black Rose.
Desecration Demon: It's not something my opponents expect, but it does it's job. Either they pay the price to tap and give it a counter, thus lowering their board presence and giving him a chance to revive by Marchesa, OR I get a 6/6 flying blocker (or attacker) to ave myself from flying threats.
Abyssal Persecutor: holds mostly the same idea as Desecration Demon, but also adds trample. I've also had a few opponents (2), who have let themselves get low in life because he is on the field, only for me to sac him and let myself or another end that player. However, he is mostly in there for a cheap 6/6 flying defense.
Oona, Queen of the Fae: A bit pricey mana wise, but if she lives, she causes hell for mono-colored decks, a few of which run at my locals. Duel colors also get hit nicely. 3 or more colors and she becomes iffy, but overall she is a nice addition for her role. Her milling in combo with graveyard exile or Dimir Doppelganger can sometimes be fantastic, especially if she mills something awesome.
Those are my unique All-Stars. Each has a special place to me, and if I had to, I think only Soul Manipulation and Abyssal Persecutor would get removed. Otherwise, each of them has helped me on multiple occasions, and have earned their place among Marchesa's army.
Creatures (Sorted by CMC)
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Viscera Seer
2 Baleful Strix
2 Pain Seer
2 Sage of Hours
3 Hellhole Flailer
3 Chasm Skulker
3 Taurean Mauler
3 Feldon of the Third Path
3 Grim Haruspex
3 Sage of Fables
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Olivia Voldaren
4 Desecration Demon
4 Evil Twin
4 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
4 Cytoplast Manipulator
4 Anger
4 Agent of Erebos
4 Aura Thief
4 Clever Impersonator
4 Dack's Duplicate
4 Dimir House Guard
4 Disciple of Bolas
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Fleshwrither
4 Graveborn Muse
4 Necrotic Ooze
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
5 Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
5 Puppeteer Clique
5 River Kelpie
6 Flayer of the Hatebound
6 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
6 Harvester Of Souls
6 Scourge of the Throne
6 Duplicant
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Rakdos Charm
3 Dismember
3 Perplex
3 Chaos Warp
Sorceries
3 Buried Alive
5 Living Death
Support permanents (Sorted by CMC)
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Attrition
3 Unspeakable Symbol
3 Fervor
3 Necropotence
4 Grave pact
5 Eldrazi Monument
7 Grave Betrayal
Ramp (Sorted by CMC)
1 Sol Ring
2 Mind Stone
2 Dimir Signet
2 Izzet Signet
2 Rakdos Signet
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Talisman of Indulgence
3 Obelisk of Grixis
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Commander's Sphere
Lands
0 Temple of the False God
0 Akoum Refuge
0 City of Brass
0 Rakdos Carnarium
0 Crumbling Necropolis
0 Grixis Panorama
0 Ghost Quarter
0 Barren Moor
0 Izzet Boilerworks
0 Bloodstained Mire
0 Wooded Foothills
0 Polluted Delta
0 Blood Crypt
0 Bojuka Bog
0 Command Tower
0 Dragonskull Summit
0 Drowned Catacomb
0 Island (x5)
0 Mountain (x4)
0 Opal Palace
0 Steam Vents
0 Sulfur Falls
0 Swamp (x6)
0 Tainted Isle
0 Tolaria West
0 Watery Grave
I am saving up to get a few other cards for this deck. Spellskite, Filth, Sakashima the Imposter, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Preyseizer Dragon, and Clutch of the Undercity are the key ones I want to get and find room for. I'm not sold on the Necrotic Ooze combos, but I do like using Buried Alive, even at sorcery speed, to put 3 cards in my grave opposed to 1. I'm thinking of adding Wonder to the deck once I get Filth. Some cards, Like Sneak Attack and Imperial Recruiter are FAR out of my price range.
In gatherings and play testings, Marchesa does decently (I don't play to win so much as I play to have fun and cause shenanigans). There is another Marchesa deck where I play, and so which ever one of us gains power first tends to be the target. I haven't played everyone at my locals (having just moved to a new area), but for the most part there are GrimGrins, Marchesa, Maelstrom Wanderer, and Thassa.
So let me know your opinions! I'm eager to hear them and I love questions and criticism!