Just now I played against someone playing Mono-Black with my UW Control deck and he also got really mad in the chat after he couldnt break through my defenses.
I just dont get such behavior really. Before that game I played against someone who rode two Mistcutter Hydras to victory because I didnt draw anything relevant besides counterspells but I didnt complain about that either how unfair it is that I can't counter those Hydras. That's just how it is.
Its because there just not very fun to play against they're uninteractive and make it so you can't play a very interesting game of magic, but I still love to play them.
These things are the very definition of interactive; what they're doing interacts with what you're doing.
It's one-sided "interactive"; you get to interact with them while they sit there and watch you play with both your deck and their deck.
Good games of Magic feel interactive on both sides of the table; both you and your opponent are able to make meaningful strategic choices. If a player's only choice is "Do I cast a spell and watch it get countered, or should I just sit here instead?", it's not going to be a fun game, no matter how "interactive" the other player feels it is.
An emblem that reads "0: Counter target spell" is also interactive, but no one's going to argue that leads to a fun game.
It's important to remember that good games of Magic involve both players feeling like they're able to meaningfully operate during the game. Lots of Control advocates dismiss other players as "whiners", but try to put yourself in their shoes. I'm not saying you can't play Control, or that you shouldn't play Control; I'm saying that you have to understand the reality that locking a player out of the game while you whittle them down with a 3/2 flyer over seven turns just isn't going to strike your opponents as a good time, even if they did get to cast seven kill spells that got countered in the meantime.
The question is: WHO has the responsibility to interact? All decks want to minimize the effect of the other deck while pushing through their own strategy. Yes, counters/discard do this by preventing their opponents from resolving key spells. However, let's not pretend that control decks are the only guilty party. Combo decks attempt to make their opponents cards not matter by going off before other decks can win with their own plan. Aggro decks try to outspeed the other decks by dropping threats before they can gain control of the game. Midrange decks attempt to invalidate weaker creatures in other decks.
Yes, counterspells and discard DO attempt to stop other decks from functioning as normal. However, let's not just blindly pretend that players playing creature decks are eagerly encouraging their opponents to execute their strategies exactly as planned.
The problem is that people think that creature on creature matchups should be the norm. Why? WHY do creatures bashing against each other have to be the norm? There are MANY strategies in mtg, but the stereotypical discard/counterspell hater does not accept that. Unlike any other "type" of player who acknowledges various other types of decks, they believe that THEIR strategy is how magic should work. The funny part is that those creature based decks traditionally have a GOOD matchup against control based strategies.
The problem is that excessively counterspell-heavy decks don't have a counter-strategy in most formats. Card power is too low, or effective answers (like Cavern of Souls) rotate out.
And frankly, based on the complaining about Cavern of Souls, I'm pretty sure Control players ALSO feel like "THEIR strategy is how Magic should work". The honest consensus was that anything that prevented a counterspell from working was inherently bad for the game. It seems a little odd to argue that and simultaneously complain that aggro players are the only uncreative thinkers in the game.
No one ever said counterspells shouldn't exist. What shouldn't exist is critical mass counterspells, where it's plausible that any relevant spell your opponent casts gets countered starting on turn two, while you beat them to death with a 3/2 or a 1/1 or simply let them deck themselves. That's what players hate, and that's what Wizards refuses to enable. The problem is that Control players can't seem to understand the difference between hating critical mass counterspells, and hating counterspells in general. (Again, based on Cavern of Souls, they also seem to hate anti-counter cards, but let's just leave that aside and charitably assume that Control players are okay with counterspells being prevented from resolving to some effect).
To be fair the is a ton of difference between Cavern of Souls enabling you to resolve basically any creature no matter what it is and uncounterable creatures like Loxodon Smiter, Mistcutter Hydra, Terra Stomper etc.
The latter is completely fair and good. You have to expect those cards and find ways to deal with them.
The former was not good and shouldn't be repeated in my opinion. Cavern of Souls set to Demon, drop Sire of Insanity, GG?
It was like all creatures having hexproof, invalidating all spot removal spells.
Discard, removal and counters are a big and important part of what makes Blue and Black tick. If you take those away you hurt the colors as whole and make them less viable.
Blue/Black cannot match Green in terms of creature efficiency so when you also take away the tools that lets them fight back against them, why even play those colors?
Not specially something against you but it bothers me that people still bring that up even though it's completely untrue. The only people who can think this way are people who think that creature vs. creature is the only interaction in the game.
Read the post from mondu_the_fat on that.
That is a good guide. I have read it a few times.
That could certainly be the reason. Self-imposed rules about what is fun and what is not even though the "unfun" part is still fine and meant to be a part of the game.
Sure I know that there have been decks in the past that could look you out of the game completely with stuff likeStasis.
But killing creatures with kill spells or countering them doesnt prevent you from playing the game yet there are people who would like to scoop as soon as you tap lands in response to something.
Well the thread title says the most already.
I will say directly that I know that many players dont have a problem with them.
But from experience I can say there are also quite a few people who get angry and upset if you play a couple removal- or counterspells and call your deck stupid and all that.
I mean there are people who dislike Thoughtseize and Mono-Black being big players in Standard right now.
I would really like to know whats so bad about creatures dying and stuff. It's part of the game after all.
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I just dont get such behavior really. Before that game I played against someone who rode two Mistcutter Hydras to victory because I didnt draw anything relevant besides counterspells but I didnt complain about that either how unfair it is that I can't counter those Hydras. That's just how it is.
To be fair the is a ton of difference between Cavern of Souls enabling you to resolve basically any creature no matter what it is and uncounterable creatures like Loxodon Smiter, Mistcutter Hydra, Terra Stomper etc.
The latter is completely fair and good. You have to expect those cards and find ways to deal with them.
The former was not good and shouldn't be repeated in my opinion. Cavern of Souls set to Demon, drop Sire of Insanity, GG?
It was like all creatures having hexproof, invalidating all spot removal spells.
Discard, removal and counters are a big and important part of what makes Blue and Black tick. If you take those away you hurt the colors as whole and make them less viable.
Blue/Black cannot match Green in terms of creature efficiency so when you also take away the tools that lets them fight back against them, why even play those colors?
But that is the thing. If those cards didnt exist every one would be playing Green Ramp decks because more mana=more powerful spells.
Not specially something against you but it bothers me that people still bring that up even though it's completely untrue. The only people who can think this way are people who think that creature vs. creature is the only interaction in the game.
Read the post from mondu_the_fat on that.
That is a good guide. I have read it a few times.
That could certainly be the reason. Self-imposed rules about what is fun and what is not even though the "unfun" part is still fine and meant to be a part of the game.
But killing creatures with kill spells or countering them doesnt prevent you from playing the game yet there are people who would like to scoop as soon as you tap lands in response to something.
I will say directly that I know that many players dont have a problem with them.
But from experience I can say there are also quite a few people who get angry and upset if you play a couple removal- or counterspells and call your deck stupid and all that.
I mean there are people who dislike Thoughtseize and Mono-Black being big players in Standard right now.
I would really like to know whats so bad about creatures dying and stuff. It's part of the game after all.