DUDE! First 1:45:00 of this video is my game last night playing the walker deck. Commander didn't matter too much, though Sliver Queen would have been better in the endgame due to Anointed Procession, Parallel Lives, and Tamiyo, Field Researcher's emblem which would have allowed me to pour mana from my lands into token production since I could cast things for free. Ramos seems less scary at the helm, but I might A|B test while running the other in the 99 sometimes.
I kept forgetting to save on tokens by blocking non-tramplers and then sac them to Martyr's Cause to put a bubble on something else. Also should have used removal much earlier in the last turn -- probably Despark on Ur-Dragon at the beginning of the first combat, before attackers declared. Then he wouldn't have got Curse of Opulence in play off of the Ur-Dragon trigger and I would have been free to use Assassin's Trophy on Hellkite Charger. I'm noticing lots of other little mistakes made, too, and not just mine. Need to practice.
I don't know why I was never notified of these comments, but I apologize for not seeing them! Hope you guys are still enjoying the deck. I admittedly have not played it in a long time.
I ended up not adding any proliferate because as I was putting it together it didn't feel like I was really aiming for ultimates here as finishers like the previous incarnation of the deck was. It seemed like the useful ultimates could be reached easily enough through multiple activations such as with Oath of Teferi. Mana struggles early on this game (and Dack's +1) had me discarding some planeswalkers, but I drew into Primevals' Glorious Rebirth, which was kindof an explosion of planeswalkers that painted a huge target on me (Firesong and Sunspeaker promptly burnt out the rest of my 28 life). The walkers I used this game still had a decent amount of targeted removal for an element of control, although Anguished Unmaking and Innocent Blood came in handy.
Rebirth is a huge amount of logistics to deal with 6-7 planeswalkers all at once, plus being able to activate them twice with Oath of Teferi. I may try Sunbird's Invocation instead and see if that's more manageable for me, since the main thing I didn't like about its performance was how long that turn took. And I should probably practice with the deck so I know all the walker's abilities and don't have to read so much.
Seems like you are using tokens, did they work out well?
I still check in here occasionally, so you could duplicate it to Nexus if you want since there's more EDH forum activity there, now.
Rebuilding to the token theme is on my to-do list, but I'll also be using token doublers like Anointed Procession and Parallel Lives instead of Doubling Season. The latter was causing too many blow-outs with ultimates... and Ayula needs the help maybe. Comment #1061 was still accurate for the token sub-theme build, right?
Yeah, that's where I last left it. I'm sure Oko could fit, and maybe a few other cards from Throne of Eldraine. Let me know what it's like if you ever get it built, as I'm very curious.
Hey everyone, I'm retiring the deck for now. I'd like to poke in here sometimes and give thoughts for those who are still playing. I also think I will post this list to Nexus if anyone is interested.
I'm mainly doing this because I've been getting a little tired of playing this strategy, since I've been playing it for the past 5 years. On top of that, it frees up my dual lands for new decks and such. Namely, I'm creating a Kess, Dissident Mage list.
I unfortunately never got around to testing the token subtheme strategy, which I fully believe would play better than the previous control-like build. Anyone who has tested this strategy, I would love to hear how it's performing.
Let me know if any of you want me to move this thread to Nexus, as well.
Thanks for all the years and input during this time. It was a great community, and one of the most epic decks to play.
Anyone think a superfriends discord server would be a good idea?
I agree, he does look pretty good. Same with the UG planeswalker.
As for the discord server, honestly this thread isn't popping enough to really justify it unfortunately. I'm not even sure how much longer I'll be piloting the deck.
After further consideration, I think I'll be shifting this deck towards a token superfriends theme for now. Out of all strategies, I think it works best with planeswalkers.
Here's the list I think I'll begin testing with, similar to the one above with a couple tweaks:
I think for my deck personally, I'm going to have to possibly shift to the token theme if I want to keep the superfriends theme.
I came to the realization that this current iteration has no plan of gradually winning the game. Basically, you either hope for an ultimate, typically with Doubling Season, and that's about it. Nothing in the deck works cohesively as a strategy towards incrementally winning the game.
I've been planning a Superfriends deck for years, but never gotten around to actually building it. The plan was always to use Sliver Queen as the Commander as she could pump out token blockers to help protect my Planeswalkers (as espoused in the primer, here), as well as possibly get infinite mana off of Mana Echoes. I never really liked the idea all that much as she didn't seem to synergize all that well with Planeswalkers (other than producing blockers) but I couldn't really see a better alternative.
With Sliver Queen having jumped in price recently, I'm tempted to sell my copy off and change the deck's Commander to someone else. With the recent spoiler, I looked at Sisay, Weatherlight Captain and wondered if she could be used as a decent Superfriends Commander in place of Sliver Queen. Looking here, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who's given thought to that.
My main thought of why Sisay could be good in this role is that she could be used to tutor to the battlefield one of the War of the Spark Planeswalkers with a static effect in response to an opponent casting a particular spell or using a particular ability in order to counter it. Specifically:
The Wanderer in response to damage-based removal spells, and,
Tibalt, Rakish Instigator in response to massive lifegain effects (though it has since been pointed out to me that Erebos, God of the Dead potentially does this better, Tibalt is cheaper (and, thus, easier to tutor) as well as produces token blockers for all Planeswalkers).
As has already been pointed out in the discussion in preceding posts here, the deck would need to have ways to pump up Sisay's power, and I think you'd need to include ways beyond just having Legendary permanents to do so. Perhaps it might be worth revisiting looking at some Planeswalkers that pump power, particularly all of the Ajanis that give +1/+1 counters as well as those that otherwise boost power and/or looking at non-Planeswalker ways to boost her power (Day of Destiny is both tutorable as well as a decent pump, for example).
Additionally, I feel that Sisay helps out a lot because she could tutor a non-Planeswalker Legendary permanent to the battlefield that could deal with The Immortal Sun which would otherwise shut down a Superfriends deck (especially those that rely on their Planeswalkers for their Naturalise effects). Things like Joven, Legacy Weapon, Mangara of Corondor, and/or Zacama, Primal Calamity could all work.
Is it also worth looking into being able to Flash in spells? If you're going to take a bit more of a reactive role at times (what with wanting to leave mana up in order to respond to opponents casting spells by tutoring the appropriate counter-Planeswalker from your deck) then you're going to not want to waste that mana. Though you don't get the best use out of Planeswalkers in this way (unless you have Teferi, Temporal Archmage's emblem in play), being able to react accordingly and, if you don't need to, still use your mana seems like a good plan. Alchemist's Refuge, Emergence Zone, Leyline of Anticipation, Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage, and Vedalken Orrery could all help with this. Seedborn Muse could also do a lot of good work here, allowing you to tutor stuff on each of your opponents' turns if you wanted to.
Does anyone have any further thoughts on my ideas? I'm looking to brew a deck up, but am having a difficult time getting a firm grip on what I need to include in it.
So here's some thoughts:
- I like the direction you're going with regarding the static abilities from the planeswalkers from WAR. Really an interesting idea.
- Pump Sisay is certainly one of the things I'm grappling with regarding her as a general. Yes you can pump her from other things, but are they just narrowly being used to pump her? That would be wasteful, imo. So you have to structure the deck for those cards to be relevant in other areas.
- As for the flash and other answers, again I like this idea but I think it might be drifting too far from the superfriends theme. You only have 99 cards, so you really have to balance out how you want to approach superfriends. What you're suggesting sounds more like a deck that is built around Sisay and includes some plnaeswalkers. I would be interested in taking a look, because it does sound pretty interesting. Less of superfriends, more of a legends-matter deck. Which honestly doesn't sound bad, something I may consider myself.
- Flash I think overall doesn't work the greatest for planeswalkers, for the exact reason you pointed out.
Here's version of that deck that has an emphasis on generating tokens for the strategy, been meaning to work on this for awhile. Still needs a few cards and tweaks, but the first draft:
Should I do a whole rework for this deck to include Sissay? I feel like a lot has come out over the past few weeks that is making me reconsider how the whole deck is approached.
It’s a little early to tell, but Sisay does change the game because she’s a tutoring commander. If she sticks as a commander or even the 99, we’ll probably want more legendary lands, I’m not sure how this will effect our ramp plan, and Ajani… like any of them… just got better.
I’m a little worried that her restrictions may be a little more convoluted than they initially seem, but the floor is land tutoring at instant speed. The ceiling... I’m not sure.
Agreed. It might be a little too much to get her to tick, but at the same time, she not only tutors, but to the battlefield.
On top of Ajani iterations, there's also Elspeth, Knight-Errant which can be a pretty great curve of Sissay -> Elspeth -> Pump Sissay and tutor.
Should I do a whole rework for this deck to include Sissay? I feel like a lot has come out over the past few weeks that is making me reconsider how the whole deck is approached.
I will leave this up for anyone looking though. Thank you all for years!
I don't know why I was never notified of these comments, but I apologize for not seeing them! Hope you guys are still enjoying the deck. I admittedly have not played it in a long time.
I'm mainly doing this because I've been getting a little tired of playing this strategy, since I've been playing it for the past 5 years. On top of that, it frees up my dual lands for new decks and such. Namely, I'm creating a Kess, Dissident Mage list.
I unfortunately never got around to testing the token subtheme strategy, which I fully believe would play better than the previous control-like build. Anyone who has tested this strategy, I would love to hear how it's performing.
Let me know if any of you want me to move this thread to Nexus, as well.
Thanks for all the years and input during this time. It was a great community, and one of the most epic decks to play.
As for the discord server, honestly this thread isn't popping enough to really justify it unfortunately. I'm not even sure how much longer I'll be piloting the deck.
Where is everyone who is following this thread wanting it to go? New site or stay here?
Here's the list I think I'll begin testing with, similar to the one above with a couple tweaks:
1 Sliver Queen
//PLANSWALKERS
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Tezzeret, Artifice Master
1 Liliana, Dreadhorde General
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Wrenn and Six
1 Domri, Anarch of Bolas
1 Ajani, the Greathearted
1 Huatli, Radiant Champion
1 Dack Fayden
1 Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Vraska, Golgari Queen
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God
//SORCERY
1 Retribution of the Meek
1 Citywide Bust
1 Austere Command
1 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Time Warp
1 Imperial Seal
1 Innocent Blood
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Nature's Lore
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Assassin's Trophy
//ENCHANTMENTS
1 Martyr's Cause
1 Anointed Procession
1 Humility
1 Oath of Liliana
1 The Abyss
1 Awakening Zone
1 Parallel Lives
1 Doubling Season
1 Oath of Ajani
1 Oath of Teferi
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Assemble the Legion
//ARTIFACTS
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Torpor Orb
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Rings of Brighthearth
//LAND
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plateau
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Kor Haven
1 Karn's Bastion
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Maze of Ith
I came to the realization that this current iteration has no plan of gradually winning the game. Basically, you either hope for an ultimate, typically with Doubling Season, and that's about it. Nothing in the deck works cohesively as a strategy towards incrementally winning the game.
So expect a fairly large overhaul of the deck.
Taking suggestions.
I think I'd prefer to keep it there.
- I like the direction you're going with regarding the static abilities from the planeswalkers from WAR. Really an interesting idea.
- Pump Sisay is certainly one of the things I'm grappling with regarding her as a general. Yes you can pump her from other things, but are they just narrowly being used to pump her? That would be wasteful, imo. So you have to structure the deck for those cards to be relevant in other areas.
- As for the flash and other answers, again I like this idea but I think it might be drifting too far from the superfriends theme. You only have 99 cards, so you really have to balance out how you want to approach superfriends. What you're suggesting sounds more like a deck that is built around Sisay and includes some plnaeswalkers. I would be interested in taking a look, because it does sound pretty interesting. Less of superfriends, more of a legends-matter deck. Which honestly doesn't sound bad, something I may consider myself.
- Flash I think overall doesn't work the greatest for planeswalkers, for the exact reason you pointed out.
https://deckstats.net/decks/1240/728364-sliver-queen-superfriends-toke
1 Sliver Queen
//PLANSWALKERS
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Jace Beleren
1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Tezzeret, Artifice Master
1 Liliana, Dreadhorde General
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1 Wrenn and Six
1 Ajani, the Greathearted
1 Huatli, Radiant Champion
1 Dack Fayden
1 Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Vraska, Golgari Queen
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God
//SORCERY
1 Retribution of the Meek
1 Austere Command
1 Capture of Jingzhou
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Time Warp
1 Imperial Seal
1 Innocent Blood
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Assassin's Trophy
//ENCHANTMENTS
1 Martyr's Cause
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Anointed Procession
1 Humility
1 Oath of Liliana
1 The Abyss
1 Oath of Nissa
1 Awakening Zone
1 Parallel Lives
1 Doubling Season
1 Oath of Ajani
1 Oath of Teferi
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Assemble the Legion
//ARTIFACTS
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Torpor Orb
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Rings of Brighthearth
//LAND
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Plateau
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Kor Haven
1 Karn's Bastion
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
On top of Ajani iterations, there's also Elspeth, Knight-Errant which can be a pretty great curve of Sissay -> Elspeth -> Pump Sissay and tutor.