I, too, support DV coming off the probation list, as I always have. He put himself on there years (goddamn, really? It's been years?!) ago for a momentary lapse in judgement and sportsmanlike conduct, then proceeded to police himself. He's done his time.
Why don't you guys stop doing politics? "Going with a bang" will not hurt anyone but yourselves. Whatever the admins have done live and let go man.
EDIT: I know nothing about the situation, and simply put, I couldn't care less and I think you guys should do the same, you certainly have more things on your plate than discussion salvation's future.
EDIT2: Since one of my ongoing games is probably going to end in 24hours I can help replacing into any small game.
I stayed on this site after I got fired because I cared about its' future. That's changed now, and I do intend to leave as soon as I'm not involved in anymore games, but it is with a heavy heart, but a clear conscience.
To be clear, the spamming and flaming are not an issue to me. If people flame, they get infracted, which, according to DRey DID happen.
The problem for me is his repeated showing of a mindset that it is more important for HIM to live than any other townie, especially in the game in question.
If you haven't read it, his stance is that he spammed at that late point because he was in danger of being mislynched, and that would have cost the town the game, so he decided to force the mechanic in an attempt to get himself killed. He had no way of knowing he would be the one to die (and, in fact, 2 townies died, neither one being him), but he still maintains that it was better for the town if he died at the hand of the mechanic than at the hand of a mislynch. The fact is, if he'd died by mislynch BEFORE the mechanic was enacted, the town still had a chance to win. By doing what he did, he ensured jd's win and the town's loss.
This is just the most recent example, however. I don't think I've ever read a game where he didn't display the belief that his death would be detrimental to the town simply because he is an amazing player with amazing insight, in his own opinion. THAT I have a problem with. EVERY townie should be willing to sacrifice themselves for the betterment of the team.
I'm going to /barn EP's statements and add that he has, in my experience, no respect for the moderators of his games. He was constantly refusing to accept answers I gave him during Kitteh Trek Mafia then proceeded to attack me when he got modkilled for PM quoting.
I don't think it is but Manders misses helping out, so who am I to deny her? Besides, when things pick up with the League, I may not have so much availability as head judge and all of that. So it may preemptively be a good idea.
By the way, if anyone has any League questions, feel free to shoot me a PM.
This is what I was thinking, and I'd like to request we revisit the request again?
We'd like to invite you back to participate in games at this point, Manders, but our consensus is that we should wait and move a little less precipitously about moving you back into an official, prominent position in the sub.
After our AIM conversation, I can understand the Council's position. Now that I'm back home again, I probably will play in a game at a time. I'll be really picky about what games I /in, though.
atlseal: How about we combine the Player Contact List and Replacement Request thread? The mods can simply use the PCL to contact Replacements.
Nah, that's not necessary, but moving the Welcome! post into the Theory thread, making it the first by copying the first, would make sense. Effectively combining the two, but this way ensures the Welcome! post isn't lost in the thread.
Due to the hijinks currently taking place in CI, I may or may not be required to take a forced vacation from the site. I thought you folks should receive some notice in advance, just in case.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
Councilmen, Iso and I were talking last night, and we'd like to run this by you.
I would like to have my Secretary title back. Iso has agreed to this, requesting that he retain his own. He's given me notification of the changes he's made to the operation while I was out of the loop and has agreed that, if brought back, I will be the primary person handling the lists.
Are there any objections to me resuming my former position as co-secretary?
For the record, I will have the time to devote to the job. I will begin staying at home again, where there is internet, tonight.
Noooo. DV watched someone do something recently that reminded him of other things. And instead of and he decided he should say something about things that happened.
To be clear, its not that I don't believe that Naka should not have been banned. But he should not have been smeared the way he was. That is all.
I simply have a problem with some of the double standards that are sometimes present.
Anyways though please don't try and minimize what Cyan and Loran did. It wasn't fair and it was done to hurt on purpose and it succeeded to an extent. The fact that you think that it is ok says something about yourself as well sir.
How dare you minimize a situation where someone in a caring community was offended by his brethren. Seriously, why are you just dismissing everything he says? Do you think there's a double standard here on what gets moderated and what doesn't? Why aren't you contributing to the subject instead of making fun of DV?
When Loran had that in his sig, it was before this site started on the path of being too sensitive. Using gay as slang was not an offense at the time. And it's not something that was done intentionally to spite you, no matter what you think. I said something that Loran found funny, so he quoted it. It was a coincidence that it was something 'mean' regarding you. It's really hard to believe that you're still going on about it.
It's a natural, human response to desire an apology when one is offended and/or hurt by a fellow human being. There is nothing wrong with him for wanting that closure to a bad situation.
And I never talked about it then. I kept it to myself. I watched you say other rude things in this very thread about me. I only brought it up to facilitate a point. What you did was Cyber Bullying, it was wrong, and the fact that you think it was ok, says something about you.
It does, and cyber-bullying absolutely cannot be allowed in this forum. Maybe to an extent in-games as so many of you think it's necessary to gauge reactions, but absolutely not in this thread or any other non-game threads.
I am against a mass claim day 1.
I have poked my head into Joss Whedon mafia. That has turned out horrible.
[QUOTE=Loran's Sig]loran16: Wait
loran16: DV is in the game.
Shalafi79: Wait, what? Didn't think i saw his name.
loran16: It's there.
Ouch didn't know Cyan hated me that much.
Oh, apparently it did. Apologies, buddy. Yeah, that's the one I saw.
Still, with all those asterisks, I thought it was the "F" word.
I am being logical about this, and I fail to see why you guys are so ready to defend this. I am not wrong in saying it wasn't right and that it was hurtful and rude. You refuse to accept this. I literally don't care about it anymore, I only brought it up to facilitate a point, which is that I have watched as members were bullied(in my opinion) and others namely some of the members on this council did nothing about it. They actually did the opposite with the naka situation, they encouraged it.
The point is simple, personal attacks on Naka were not needed. It would have been simply enough to state that he broke the rules the end. The fact that a smear campaign was raised actually makes me question the legitimacy of his rule breaking, but that is beside the point. The point I was trying to make was that if we are taking past offenses people have committed and using them as part of our weight in evidence for banning members, then there is a lot of people that would fall into this category. I think we can all agree that would be silly at best. Basically what I want is an apology for what happened to naka, and a promise that personal attacks in the future will never be used by the mods or the council as a basis to ban someone.
I had a problem with it then and I decided to speak up about it now because of other reasons.
I've honestly forgotten all about the Naka situation, but I think I remember him being smeared during his banning. I'm sure it came out of anger, and you're right. It shouldn't have. This is something that needs to be addressed.
As for retroactively using offenses, no, if something's going to change, it has to start once you make the change.
He isn't talking about seeking punishment for those who had fun at his expense. He's iterating a point about a larger trend in the sub forum about a lack of accountability when the ad hom gets too rough. If you seriously think DV is talking about any one person in particular, you are mistaken and completely missing his point.
Personally I could not care any less about the mud slinging that sometimes happens. But I do care about mods completely ignoring or misrepresenting the concerns of the players in the only thread intended for such a discussion.
No, thank you for thanking, vBulletin. I agree with this entire post.
Obviously to prove his point, yes that is what he would need. I just feel that grievances should be heard out and debated on rather than swept under the moderator's rug. There's a time and place for that, but this isn't one of those occasions. DV's statements are clearly not placing the blame on anyone or seeking restitution for actions that he acknowledged as expired, but the mod response is acting as if this is the case.
If they're situations regarding the site or a mod in particular, they should be in a helpdesk, yes. If they're regarding a possible change in the subforum, it needs to be addressed here.
First, no, but with it being very public and around for a long time, especially after he changed it to the **** I would be surprised if they hadn't seen it.
It was something to the jist of,
Loran, "Did you check the player list? Dv is on it"
And that was the IM quote except that it had cyans IM name. I know I quoted it somewhere I can try and find it later.
It was then changed to after I brought it up
I am simply bringing this stuff up, because I feel as though it was ignored I also feel that people looked over it and that isn't fair.
Yes I agree with you about the wrong doing part. The proof part you are right, except for the fact that in this thread Azreal promised us that proof, because of how public they made it. The proof part is very little concern its the rest of what was done that bothers me.
When I came here, loran's sig had "***" for whatever Cyan said. And, I didn't pay attention to the number of asterisks there, but I always thought it was the "F" word.
I'm reading the latest happenings now, but I just wanted to point that out.
I'm actually not trying to fault tordeck here. I am laying the blame for this largely at MH's feet. By this point in the game, she should know better. She has been involved in modding quite a few games.
Wow. I can't believe you said that. You should listen to tordeck and keep your mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about.
I advocating not modkilling poggydude at first, but tordeck convinced me based on the fact that poggy had already been warned.
But, no, it's cool. I'll take the blame.
@DRey: I'm pretty sure I told you you would never play in another game of mine based on the fact that you have no respect for a mod well before you said anything like what you've said here. Look at Kitteh Trek. How many times did you PM me asking if the information you got regarding Archmage Eternal was correct? Why was it necessary for you to ask more than once? Because you didn't respect that I MIGHT have known what the **** I was talking about, which is extremely disrespectful and rude. Don't get me wrong, I welcome questions during my games, and even encourage them. But asking the same question 4 times and prefacing it with, "Are you sure you're telling me the right thing?" is nothing more than a slap in the face.
Anyway, the game's over. Mistakes were made and learned from, as happens in a lot of games. Harping about this in the Council thread when Az has already stated that no punishments need to be handed out is just terrible.