I'm not blaming you for anything other than making me mad and ending our friendship before I "ended our friendship" (this as a matter of accuracy), and have taken full accountability for my actions, so why are you saying I'm ducking accountability? I'm not trying to throw this on you as a "he started it" thing, I'm just merely highlighting the involvement you ignore.
I put a lot of time & effort into making this clan, this site, & this community something worthwhile. You kicked me in a pretty sweet spot, & haven't actually made any kind of visible backtrack on that, or even put forward your legitimate case as to why I am bad for the site. & in the meantime, you've invested a ton of energy continuing to tear me down.
This really seems irrelevant to you asking for my outs from the clan doesn't it? Or do you want me out because I don't think you should be admin and won't back down from that? I'm not backing down from that stance, I believe it. You're not the first admin I've thought shouldn't be an admin here, probably won't be the last either.
I may be an admin here, but I'm a person first, & the effort I put into this site comes from my heart.
Understood, and I lost sight of this surely.
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How am I still selling you out? What are you even having a go at now?
And I would complain about you here, but I'm being kicked out. Regardless, I wouldn't say anything in the gutter I wouldn't say to your face.
And once again, clearly I am 100% at fault and when people you thought were your friends just void that friendship rudely after calling you a drama whore, you should just be not mad at that. And dude, I may have bit your had but it was after you punched me in the face. I don't see why you can't accept how much of a douche you were to me. Like, I get it, I betrayed your trust. I "sold you out", etc. I apologized for the betrayal of trust, and frankly don't expect you to accept that. Trust is a big deal and doesn't heal over night. It takes years to build and seconds to destroy, as has been proven. And for this, I'm sorry. Like, I thought we were going to get to discuss. Instead, you are back to your name calling and hand waving of me as a troll. You know what, I've been incredibly childish multiple times throughout this entire ordeal, beginning to end. And yet, I still feel justified in telling you to grow up dude.
Consider this my official withdrawl from this clan. I'm not pleased with my own actions, but it is clear that ole buddy across the table from me would rather dance around the issue and name call instead of any sort of actual rectification. I wish you well in all your future endeavors. If anyone wants me, they know where they can find me.
You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the times.
pacs out.
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That conversation was between two friends raging over site drama, & there are far more mature ways to register a complaint against the staff than passing private conversations to someone ranting in CI & out to pull down staff.
Like, of course we can be honest with eachother. Hate my role on staff? Go make a post in the inbox. Or PM the senior staff. Or if it needs to be public, make an address outlining why I am a bad admin. I know you can write a paper with an intelligent argument.
You're absolutely right, and I was wrong in doing that. I admit this, and legit apologize for it. Like you're right, there are better ways I could have handled myself. However, I made a move from anger, not this:
None of that is dramatic enough though.
And this is exactly the problem, you have me labeled as a troll and someone who is just seeking drama, someone who wanted drama so much that I was willing to sell you out for it. You're wrong dude. You came at me with what seemed (from my vantage point) to be the viewpoint that I was a troll and looking for drama, from the get go. This led to me getting more and more incensed with you to the point that you told me that I should, and I quote, "forget you [I] was ever friend with me (you)". Which leads me to my next spot.
& it did suit you. You sold out anything our friendship might have meant or anything that may have remained there when you made it a political tool.
I was so mad and hurt by the time I raged to kijin and gave him those aim screenshots saying "look I been trolled", I didn't think I was selling out your friendship, because frankly you had told me to pretend we had never been friends. Me giving that to Kijin came after the friendship was ended, according to you. Also FTR, I never said to Kijin "here, lets drop dox on Ria", I said "man, look, this dude has flipped his wig and now he's freaked on me".
Really man, me doing that came from anger. I was mad I felt you had labeled me a troll, mad you had ended our friendship, and mad that I felt I wasn't getting listened to. It was anger and nothing else that led me to this specifically (the bus throwing and being upset at the suicide situation I stand by as non-anger decisions), but the "dropping dox" came straight out of anger at the above list. It wasn't to just fire up another political weapon, I'm politcally sensible enough to not need that to accomplish my means.
I appreciate you at least having this dialouge with me, for whatever that's worth to you, if anything.
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I can't say I'm proud of hanging with a dude who will throw your friendship away within 30 seconds because he is mad because he's been called out.
Don't misrepresent my intentions. If you want to say I "threw you under the bus", that's fine, I'll accept that. I threw you under a bus, you're damn right. Don't say I did it because "it suited me" at the time. I did it because I felt you were deserving of getting run over by that metaphorical bus at that point. I can see why you refuse to reconcile that, but at the same time perhaps you should consider why I went from being friends with you to throwing you under a bus. It takes two to tango pal, this isn't kpaca is the big bad wolf and ria was minding his own business in his house of straw, this is hanselpaca and gretlnan fighint over who is going to get eaten by the wicked witch first.
@Daggs: I've never had a problem with Yukes, can't recall one with Dux, havn't had one with Votan other than calling him out for faux clan contest participation. CharlieD seems put off by my personality so I really can't speak to an actual beef with him. Ria, yeah that's fair. Furthermore, I may be misremembering but I don't recall yelling at Blod every chance I got, that seems a gross mischaracterization. I do recall yelling at him, but only after he became insufferable. I was actually patted on the back for this by the clan. Also, your argument that people don't post because of me is ridiculous and speaks to how McCarthyian this has become. I hardly post here that much anymore, so you can hardly blame inactivity on me. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't dissapointed in this response from you Daggs.
Edit: And FTR, assuming by "bus" you are referring to getting fired, I still wish you had been run over by the metaphorical bus or that it will turn around and hit you (metaphorically still ofc, I wish you no ill). It is an honest statement, and I have always said the one thing you can count on is my honesty. Sorry that came to odds with the clan. If I thought this was a place I couldn't remain honest when I signed up, I wouldn't have signed up in the first place. Perhaps I ultimately misjudged the liberty with which we were able to operate as members of this clan.
Ive been over that votan, so its not my fault if you dont follow along.
@charlied: your vote is just based on yoour distate for my personality likely, so whatevs.
@errything else: I am sorry for losing my cool instead of backing up from ria, and im sorry that my choice moving forward in anger was posting an aim convo, which is apparently tasteless. RE: the public nature of the blow up. I feel like ria took it there, and once there i wasnt afraid to be there. However, I am not sorry for calling for ria's removal. I stand by that. I still dont think ria should be admin, and thats simply the truth. I think about half the staff shouldnt be staff. I thought we were able to disagree in the called and still be called. Maybe that was once the case but clearly its not anymore. Im not now, just like i never have, going to sacrifice my honesty for social pressure. I apologize for losing my temper but stand by my opinion re: the staff.
Consider me on indefinite leave. I do want to make amends, and do not want to leave this clan, however, I am not willing to be a part of actions I think may result in the destruction of the thing on MTGS (don't believe me if you want to, whatever) that I actually held most dear.
If any sort of reconciliation is happening, if you'd shoot me a pm jonski, I'd very much appreciate it.
I'm not offended at being called a troll. There's a major difference between a someone telling you "you troll" and someone who you thought was your legitimate friend (not some faux internet niceties), telling you "you are nothing more to me than a faceless internet troll".
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Right, I completely recognize the arguments being explained to me. Have you reads the convo though? What would your thoughts be if someone you had invested a large amount of time getting to know and actually creating an internet friendship (lol internet world amirite) with, informed you that you were worthless to them in a completely rude way. Dude came at me basically. Like if you read the convo, I'm pretty sure you can tell that it's not like an open discussion of beliefs was possible. I was pretty much told I was a faceless internet troll, by someone who I thought actually had personally connected with me. I feel as though I'm not the one who did the back turning here. While it's probably true that my anger over this prompted me to say "**** him to", I feel as though my "**** him to" was justified. Also, in no way was my involvement in that thread at all related to trying to keep Kijin on the staff. I legitimately thought then and do now that the situation was disgusting and should result in an overall. Stop trying to paint this as a kpaca stands up for the gutter thing, and this goes for all of you. Unless you can back that up more than "herf derf you post in the gutter instead of this thread" then can that line of nonsense please. Like at least educate yourself as to the arguments leading to the issues. Have any of you read my gutterposts? It's not like they're content ridden or thought inducing diatribes. Furthermore, in no way was that AIM conversation misconstrued. It's not like I hid my involvement nor did I try and hide anything about it. If people cannot answer for their own actions, why should that be my fault? I can and will stand by anything I have said or done in any capacity if I was questioned on it. Like, please, read that aim convo, and tell me how much loyalty you'd think you need to have to someone who told you "block me from your aim and forget we were ever friends"? Answer that question for me please if nothing else.
I'd implore you to read it but someone has retroactively deleted the posts. Wonder who that was?
Edit: Also I'm not going into a temporary timeout corner, sorry. Maybe that worked for you but that's some childish jive. If/When the time comes, I'll leave on some grown man ****.
Eds: And you are clearly joking yourself if you think this clan is still a democracy. This clan is a riocracy and after hearing opinions of a few other clan members, I no longer feel as though this is something that needs to go unsaid. At this point I do not care if I'm ousted for saying it either. You can take it as my last will and testament if you want. I loved the called, I was called before I ever interacted with the gutter, and I made more personal connections with people in the called than I ever did with the gutter. The gutter is a video game for me, the called was my real clubhouse. To me we were like the little rascals, and sometimes we'd get mad or have distaste with each other, but we were still the called. What has happened recently is disgusting. We are completely fractured, disjointed, and dying. When Daggs brought it up I ignored it, in my mind saying it wasn't true. Evidently his was correct. The cave is gone, deleted unilaterally by Ria. Near half of the members are being called for some sort of forced removal. It is quite clear that the tone is that certain members hold more sway and have a stronger voice than anyone else. That's cool. Ria has been here longer than most and has been our most influential member, this is undeniable. If anyone should be Mubarak it should be him. This is a crap fest of epic proportions.
@Kpaca: I don't think you can play too high and mighty there, I got kicked out of the gutter because, to quote you, 'I am pretty much your least favorite person on here'. And the reasoning for that is the same as here. And the gutter is your real clan, and has been for some time. No one begrudges you that, but it is what it is.
Anyway. I will step down from the clan. It is the right thing for me to do. It is my fault, and no one else's, though I am not going to elaborate more on that in a public venue that any random person can read. I'll try to come back later when I have righted some wrongs.
Right, like I said, I'm not exactly on good terms with you. Part of that is that I don't particularly like you (which you just noted). However, I have never desired for you to not be part of the called to the point that I would actively call for such a thing. Furthermore, that's not the explicit reason I booted you from the gutter, and I'm not sure why you are saying you are quoting me, because I didn't intimate why I kicked you out of the gutter until after I did, if at all. And considering you can't see the gutter once you're kicked out, yeah. Furthermore if the gutter is my clan and not the called I guess the same is true for Tlo, Teef, and JJ? Get real dude. I can't believe this is becomeing "kpaca sold out the called to the gutter". Then again, I should probably just put as much stock into that opinion as I do to most of your opinions, which is to say, zero.
But you know what Cyan? Despite all of that above paragraph, I still don't want you to lead the clan. Call it trying to act high and mighty if you want, but ask yourself this, please: If I really truly didn't want you in the clan, do you think I'd hesitate to say that? I'm pretty sure we both know the answer.
tl;dr: We should all be mature enough to not have to hold hands while we share a "social space". This is incredibly juvenile.
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I had no plans of calling for anyones removal, and quite frankly while not exactly everyone has weighed in I do feel unwelcome. If ria can be childish to the point of detonating the batcave, calling for several members to be removed, and possibly pushing teefo out of the clan, then I'm not even sure I want to be involved at all tbh. While I recognize ria is probably the most tenured and one of the most notable members of our clan, but when did it become more about one person than the clan in general? This is incredibly disappointing to me on so many levels, and hopefully someone like Daggs or Yukes will come in and set us all straight
Eds: And yes, we are acting like children. Both of us. This **** should stop.
Edit edit: Also I realize that all the links to the ria/kpaca aim chat of infamy have been deleted retroactively. I'm not going to point fingers as to this, but I feel as though anyone who has not read said chat and is yet conjecturing based on said chat, should at least read the chat. I'm not sure what to tell you though.
Triple eds: I mean, I'm not even on good terms with Cyan either but I still vote no to his removal, as well as no to everyone elses removal except I guess ria since my vote has already been placed there by ria. Consider me in the no one should leave camp, which is not being counted. Actually:
/boot:
kpaca – rianalnn, DUX
Cyan – rianalnn, DUX
rianalnn – kpaca
/sometimes
TFO – rianalnn, DUX
Diggy – rianalnn, DUX, Talore
/everyone should stay: Teefo (no longer a member), Clock King (probably not technically a member), Talore (still a member), kpaca (probably not technically a member), CharlieD (since he didn't vote and clearly we are allowed to just characterize this votecount however best fits our argument).
I'm choosing not to engage you in dialouge after that post. Anyone who reads the way you won't even let me finish my thoughts (I have to post in short im lines this on aim due to iPad inefficiencies) can tell accusations of not listening to you are just false. Other than defending myself against that point, I'm going to just let the rest of the clan see how childish you are and decide on ther own.
Please don't edit your post
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Yeah like I said Dux, way to turn this into a gutter thing. Don't talk to me about disloyalty either. Did you get told by someone you thought you were friends and clanmates with that you weren't actually friends? Ria turned his back on me, how dare you accuse me of being a turncoat. Maybe read what went down before spouting off at the mouth bruh.
Furthermore, thanks for ignoring all the "nobody gets voted out votes" ria. Clearly those do not count. What a joke.
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Lol I posted pms ims after being basically told my friendship was ended and I was faceless troll. It's not like I said anything out of context or hid my involvement. After being told I wasn't his friend, that conversation was clearly coming from an administrative role. I stand by my actions and am dissapointed you try to make this a gutter thing Dux. Seriously bruh?
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I mean all I can give is my apology.
:shrug:, I've already /out, so I'm not sure what else you want.
This really seems irrelevant to you asking for my outs from the clan doesn't it? Or do you want me out because I don't think you should be admin and won't back down from that? I'm not backing down from that stance, I believe it. You're not the first admin I've thought shouldn't be an admin here, probably won't be the last either.
Understood, and I lost sight of this surely.
And I would complain about you here, but I'm being kicked out. Regardless, I wouldn't say anything in the gutter I wouldn't say to your face.
And once again, clearly I am 100% at fault and when people you thought were your friends just void that friendship rudely after calling you a drama whore, you should just be not mad at that. And dude, I may have bit your had but it was after you punched me in the face. I don't see why you can't accept how much of a douche you were to me. Like, I get it, I betrayed your trust. I "sold you out", etc. I apologized for the betrayal of trust, and frankly don't expect you to accept that. Trust is a big deal and doesn't heal over night. It takes years to build and seconds to destroy, as has been proven. And for this, I'm sorry. Like, I thought we were going to get to discuss. Instead, you are back to your name calling and hand waving of me as a troll. You know what, I've been incredibly childish multiple times throughout this entire ordeal, beginning to end. And yet, I still feel justified in telling you to grow up dude.
Consider this my official withdrawl from this clan. I'm not pleased with my own actions, but it is clear that ole buddy across the table from me would rather dance around the issue and name call instead of any sort of actual rectification. I wish you well in all your future endeavors. If anyone wants me, they know where they can find me.
You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the times.
pacs out.
And this is exactly the problem, you have me labeled as a troll and someone who is just seeking drama, someone who wanted drama so much that I was willing to sell you out for it. You're wrong dude. You came at me with what seemed (from my vantage point) to be the viewpoint that I was a troll and looking for drama, from the get go. This led to me getting more and more incensed with you to the point that you told me that I should, and I quote, "forget you [I] was ever friend with me (you)". Which leads me to my next spot.
I was so mad and hurt by the time I raged to kijin and gave him those aim screenshots saying "look I been trolled", I didn't think I was selling out your friendship, because frankly you had told me to pretend we had never been friends. Me giving that to Kijin came after the friendship was ended, according to you. Also FTR, I never said to Kijin "here, lets drop dox on Ria", I said "man, look, this dude has flipped his wig and now he's freaked on me".
Really man, me doing that came from anger. I was mad I felt you had labeled me a troll, mad you had ended our friendship, and mad that I felt I wasn't getting listened to. It was anger and nothing else that led me to this specifically (the bus throwing and being upset at the suicide situation I stand by as non-anger decisions), but the "dropping dox" came straight out of anger at the above list. It wasn't to just fire up another political weapon, I'm politcally sensible enough to not need that to accomplish my means.
I appreciate you at least having this dialouge with me, for whatever that's worth to you, if anything.
Don't misrepresent my intentions. If you want to say I "threw you under the bus", that's fine, I'll accept that. I threw you under a bus, you're damn right. Don't say I did it because "it suited me" at the time. I did it because I felt you were deserving of getting run over by that metaphorical bus at that point. I can see why you refuse to reconcile that, but at the same time perhaps you should consider why I went from being friends with you to throwing you under a bus. It takes two to tango pal, this isn't kpaca is the big bad wolf and ria was minding his own business in his house of straw, this is hanselpaca and gretlnan fighint over who is going to get eaten by the wicked witch first.
@Daggs: I've never had a problem with Yukes, can't recall one with Dux, havn't had one with Votan other than calling him out for faux clan contest participation. CharlieD seems put off by my personality so I really can't speak to an actual beef with him. Ria, yeah that's fair. Furthermore, I may be misremembering but I don't recall yelling at Blod every chance I got, that seems a gross mischaracterization. I do recall yelling at him, but only after he became insufferable. I was actually patted on the back for this by the clan. Also, your argument that people don't post because of me is ridiculous and speaks to how McCarthyian this has become. I hardly post here that much anymore, so you can hardly blame inactivity on me. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't dissapointed in this response from you Daggs.
Edit: And FTR, assuming by "bus" you are referring to getting fired, I still wish you had been run over by the metaphorical bus or that it will turn around and hit you (metaphorically still ofc, I wish you no ill). It is an honest statement, and I have always said the one thing you can count on is my honesty. Sorry that came to odds with the clan. If I thought this was a place I couldn't remain honest when I signed up, I wouldn't have signed up in the first place. Perhaps I ultimately misjudged the liberty with which we were able to operate as members of this clan.
Furthermore, I am supportive of admins I feel do a good job. I'm not required to feel that way aout everyone. Honest can hurt feelings I suppose.
Edit: also pretty sure dux changed his vote ria. Just sayin.
@charlied: your vote is just based on yoour distate for my personality likely, so whatevs.
@errything else: I am sorry for losing my cool instead of backing up from ria, and im sorry that my choice moving forward in anger was posting an aim convo, which is apparently tasteless. RE: the public nature of the blow up. I feel like ria took it there, and once there i wasnt afraid to be there. However, I am not sorry for calling for ria's removal. I stand by that. I still dont think ria should be admin, and thats simply the truth. I think about half the staff shouldnt be staff. I thought we were able to disagree in the called and still be called. Maybe that was once the case but clearly its not anymore. Im not now, just like i never have, going to sacrifice my honesty for social pressure. I apologize for losing my temper but stand by my opinion re: the staff.
Consider me on indefinite leave. I do want to make amends, and do not want to leave this clan, however, I am not willing to be a part of actions I think may result in the destruction of the thing on MTGS (don't believe me if you want to, whatever) that I actually held most dear.
If any sort of reconciliation is happening, if you'd shoot me a pm jonski, I'd very much appreciate it.
I'd implore you to read it but someone has retroactively deleted the posts. Wonder who that was?
Edit: Also I'm not going into a temporary timeout corner, sorry. Maybe that worked for you but that's some childish jive. If/When the time comes, I'll leave on some grown man ****.
Eds: And you are clearly joking yourself if you think this clan is still a democracy. This clan is a riocracy and after hearing opinions of a few other clan members, I no longer feel as though this is something that needs to go unsaid. At this point I do not care if I'm ousted for saying it either. You can take it as my last will and testament if you want. I loved the called, I was called before I ever interacted with the gutter, and I made more personal connections with people in the called than I ever did with the gutter. The gutter is a video game for me, the called was my real clubhouse. To me we were like the little rascals, and sometimes we'd get mad or have distaste with each other, but we were still the called. What has happened recently is disgusting. We are completely fractured, disjointed, and dying. When Daggs brought it up I ignored it, in my mind saying it wasn't true. Evidently his was correct. The cave is gone, deleted unilaterally by Ria. Near half of the members are being called for some sort of forced removal. It is quite clear that the tone is that certain members hold more sway and have a stronger voice than anyone else. That's cool. Ria has been here longer than most and has been our most influential member, this is undeniable. If anyone should be Mubarak it should be him. This is a crap fest of epic proportions.
Right, like I said, I'm not exactly on good terms with you. Part of that is that I don't particularly like you (which you just noted). However, I have never desired for you to not be part of the called to the point that I would actively call for such a thing. Furthermore, that's not the explicit reason I booted you from the gutter, and I'm not sure why you are saying you are quoting me, because I didn't intimate why I kicked you out of the gutter until after I did, if at all. And considering you can't see the gutter once you're kicked out, yeah. Furthermore if the gutter is my clan and not the called I guess the same is true for Tlo, Teef, and JJ? Get real dude. I can't believe this is becomeing "kpaca sold out the called to the gutter". Then again, I should probably just put as much stock into that opinion as I do to most of your opinions, which is to say, zero.
But you know what Cyan? Despite all of that above paragraph, I still don't want you to lead the clan. Call it trying to act high and mighty if you want, but ask yourself this, please: If I really truly didn't want you in the clan, do you think I'd hesitate to say that? I'm pretty sure we both know the answer.
tl;dr: We should all be mature enough to not have to hold hands while we share a "social space". This is incredibly juvenile.
Eds: And yes, we are acting like children. Both of us. This **** should stop.
Edit edit: Also I realize that all the links to the ria/kpaca aim chat of infamy have been deleted retroactively. I'm not going to point fingers as to this, but I feel as though anyone who has not read said chat and is yet conjecturing based on said chat, should at least read the chat. I'm not sure what to tell you though.
Triple eds: I mean, I'm not even on good terms with Cyan either but I still vote no to his removal, as well as no to everyone elses removal except I guess ria since my vote has already been placed there by ria. Consider me in the no one should leave camp, which is not being counted. Actually:
/boot:
kpaca – rianalnn, DUX
Cyan – rianalnn, DUX
rianalnn – kpaca
/sometimes
TFO – rianalnn, DUX
Diggy – rianalnn, DUX, Talore
/everyone should stay: Teefo (no longer a member), Clock King (probably not technically a member), Talore (still a member), kpaca (probably not technically a member), CharlieD (since he didn't vote and clearly we are allowed to just characterize this votecount however best fits our argument).
Please don't edit your post
Furthermore, thanks for ignoring all the "nobody gets voted out votes" ria. Clearly those do not count. What a joke.