The main thing I don't like about Ethereal is that you can't do a basic upkeep or beginning-of-combat trigger.
Dew DropsW
Enchantment (C)
Ethereal 4
When a counter is removed from Dew Drops, you gain 2 life.
---------
That doesn't work. I'd like for that to work because it helps minimize complexity of non-creature cards with ethereal. I wish there were a way to resolve this conundrum.
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@Flatline. Ugh, I forgot the P/T in the text. In the image it has power/toughness. Maybe Indigost can put the 2/1 PT into the post. I was hoping to get some feedback on the mechanic, but now folks might ignore it. Attaching the image again here in case it interests anyone. Ethereal is kinda like Vanishing, except it ticks down based upon usage, not based upon turn.
I'm personally having a hard time evaluating the mechanic. It plays out so differently on every card. On this one it's like a two-turn combat trick on a 2/1 body. On others it can be just an undercosted rental fatty like Calciderm. On others it can be a combo enabler (imagine giving a mythic dragon ethereal, firebreathing, and a remove counter trigger.). While this particular card has a very distinct and obvious mission, some Ethereal cards might be rather ambiguous in how you're supposed to play with them (maybe that's good, maybe that's bad).
Like Vanishing, there's a lot of versatility here -- it can be a "workhorse mechanic". And like Vanishing, it can make a Limited gameplay feel and play different from other sets. I'm trying to figure out why one would choose one over the other.
Can y'all explain why this creates memory issues? I don't see how there are any memory issues involved here...when you reveal the card, it transforms. No one has to remember anything.
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Possibly, and possibly with a different keyword (Impress/Impression). I might wait for the second set to do that, not sure at this point. I think it helps keeps the flavor and immersion consistent if "vivid/vivify" is exclusively used to enable a player to cast two alternate versions of the same creature. If I do choice d, the front-half turns into a pseudo-spell as you're conceiving it. Consider:
Chilling Air1U
Creature - Elemental (U)
Defender, Flying
When Chilling Air enters the battlefield, tap target creature. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
Vivify (When this creature enters the battlefield, you may return it transformed to its owner's hand.)
0/3
////// Freezing Air2UUU
Enchantment Creature - Elemental (U)
Flying
Whenever a creature attacks you, tap it. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
4/4
The submitted version is cleaner and less-constricting, I think, but this is akin to what option d would look like.
Thanks for taking the time to write! It means a lot It's sort of a blend of Forecast and cards like Boom/Bust. You either play the 2 drop, or you can do something small (tap a green permanent) to transform it while it is still in your hand into a beefier 4-drop. That's why it has a mana cost. You have to cast either version to put it onto the battlefield.
You have to do *something* to transform it because in Magic you can't willy nilly decide which side of a double-faced card you want to play with. I had come up with a whole host of various methods of transforming them, including:
a) they transform when they become revealed from your hand or library.
b) they transform when a certain condition is met from your hand (same condition for all vivid cards).
c) they transform when a certain condition is met from your hand (card-specific conditions for each card).
d) Vivify is a blink transformation ability keyword: "Vivify (When ~ enters the battlefield, you may return it to your hand. If you do, transform it.)"
e) they transform when you pay a kicker cost (e.g. Vivify 2G. If you paid the vivify cost, it enters the battlefield transformed).
f) the one depicted on the submitted card.
I thought this would be a fun mechanic that helps alleviate the effects of mana screw and flood in Limited. I think Limited formats are better when these worst aspects of Magic can be ameliorated.
Do you want it to flip only if it entered the graveyard from the battlefield? Or if it entered for any reason? And I think the Nightmare mechanic would be better off if it was "always" on, and didn't give you the option of choosing which side was best.
Hey LnGrrrR, I'm undecided on that question. I have this same dilemma with another mechanic - "Impress" -, although I may try to combine the two mechanics into one somehow. The benefit of "enter from anywhere" is that you can use it with non-permanent cards (like Startled Awake). However, they become more complex.
You and Blackwaltz both seem to have a preference for B. That lack of choice and modality leads to an appealing simplicity, so I think I'll probably go with that one. Although that version does go against Startled Awake.
I wasn't perfectly clear with the language on each, but each is doing roughly the same thing. When the card goes to the graveyard, you can pay 1R to put the back side of the card (the nightmare curse) into play. I don't think C has been done before. It's a transform for a cost that can only be activated from your graveyard.
I think B & C are better than A. The difference between B & C, practically speaking, is that C is more flexible because you are in control over which side you want the card to be in the graveyard. B is a simpler mechanic because you *have* to flip the card when it hits the graveyard. B is also better for newer players or for players who don't know the set because you don't have to remember what the back side of the card is. I suspect that you're right that B is the way to go. I'll wait for others to chime in before making a final decision. It means a lot that you found B flavorful - I think B presents the clearest flavor, and it's super important to me that that carry through.
As with Vivid, thank you for providing feedback. It really means a lot to me
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Which of the below versions of the "Nightmare" mechanic do y'all find the best? And by best I mean some mixture of smooth, intuitive, functional, and aesthetically pleasing? Feel free to suggest alternate versions.
Idealon of a Pierced Heart3RR
Creature - Elemental Hellion (U)
Whenever Idealon of a Pierced Heart becomes blocked, it deals 2 damage to target player. Nightmare - When Idealon of a Pierced Heart enters the graveyard, you may flip it and return it to your hand.
5/4
// Nightmare of a Pierced Heart1R
Enchantment - Aura Curse Nightmare (U)
Enchant Player.
At the beginning of enchanted player's upkeep, Nightmare of a Pierced Heart deals 1 damage to that player.
Idealon of a Pierced Heart3RR
Creature - Elemental Hellion (U)
Whenever Idealon of a Pierced Heart becomes blocked, it deals 2 damage to target player. Nightmare - When Idealon of a Pierced Heart enters the graveyard, flip it.
5/4
// Nightmare of a Pierced Heart
Enchantment - Aura Curse Nightmare (U)
Enchant Player.
At the beginning of enchanted player's upkeep, Nightmare of a Pierced Heart deals 1 damage to that player. Nightmare1R(You may cast this spell from your graveyard for its Nightmare cost)
Idealon of a Pierced Heart3RR
Creature - Elemental Hellion (U)
Whenever Idealon of a Pierced Heart becomes blocked, it deals 2 damage to target player. Nightmare1R - Flip this card and return it to the battlefield. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.
5/4
// Nightmare of a Pierced Heart
Enchantment - Aura Curse Nightmare (U)
Enchant Player.
At the beginning of enchanted player's upkeep, Nightmare of a Pierced Heart deals 1 damage to that player.
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Feedback on the Brainstorm mechanic would be very welcome. To make it more viable in paper, it might be worth making it "search your sideboard for ~ and put it on top of your library" instead of "search your library for ~ and put it on top of your library." As written, at least, there is a way for the player to cheat in paper if he wants to reshuffle his library for some reason. Online this would be easily blocked.
Is there some way to block this sort of thing in paper? Could the mechanic be rewritten? Perhaps there could be check cards in booster packs like in Shadows over Innistrad block where you mark the cards with Brainstorm that you have in your deck. I would prefer to keep the library functionality if possible.
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At 5 mana, X=2. Therefore, you get four 3/3s at CMC 5. This is because the first mode would read "Create two 3/3 beast tokens" and then you can choose that mode an additional time.
When X=3, you get 9 3/3s. At X=4, you get 16 3/3s. Just because there's an XX in the casting cost doesn't mean that "X" is halved throughout the rules text. If X=2, then X=2 throughout the card. To get the effect I think you want to have, you need to change "X 3/3 beast tokens" to "a 3/3 beast token".
@BlackWaltz. I really like the way you worded your Enrich ability. It was unclear to me before how you were wording it, but your rendition is easily understandable. Now the only difference between Vivid and Enrich lies in the "devotion" of casting costs, should that ever be a thing. Also, I hear your criticism of Vivid. Some mechanics rely on the good faith of the card designer, and Vivid is one of them. I'll try not to betray the expectations of the audience!
I like this version of Brim. Only took me 3 weeks to figure out one I liked (*sigh*). At the same time I discerned another version I would like as well - putting the time counters on it first and the brim ability triggering when you remove the last time counter and return it to your hand. The ability I put on the card in today's submission is more in keeping with traditional R&D design. The alternative I just mentioned might be better for TV because it sets up clear, visible points of anticipation toward which excitement can build, a consideration whose relevance I don't quite know how to weigh.
@BlackWaltz I designed the Behemoth as a vivid that required all forests, but it could have been Vivid-2GGGG. Its power level is too low for a GGGGGG card anyway, but I wanted to showcase the extent to what could be imagined by the vivid mechanic. Vivid doesn't have to require all mana symbols. Now it's just an alternate casting cost, one that will always have the same CMC but a more stringent colored mana requirement. How stringent will vary from card to card, hence why it is more flexible than the previous version.
Regarding you 2nd point, a 3UG card could have several sorts of vivid costs, as you noted. It could be UGGGG, UUGGG, UUUGG, UUUUG, or 1UUGG, for example.
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It was a long, meandering road to arriving at this final version. You intuitively sense when you've found something really good, and I finally feel that way about Vivid. First it was a check to make sure that a card had 3 mana symbols in its casting cost (an idea borne out of wanting it to work with Mystic Snake, a shoe-in reprint here). Then it was like Chroma, kind of haphazard and different for different things (e.g. a check if another spell was cast for meeting Vivid conditions and a bonus for a spell on cast). I was comfortable with that level of inelegance though since I really liked the idea. But then designing Rhymnir Shade made me realize that the design space was both (i) extremely limited and (ii) format-warping. To see what I mean, look at Rhymnir Shade. Right now, Rhymnir Shade is a card that, when cast on turn 3 in a normal environment, is a mediocre but playable 2/2 menace for 3. And when cast in the late-game is a really solid efficient 3/3 menace for 3. If "Vivid" were to be more than "late-game flood insurance" though, I would need to up the power level on the card. BBB for a 3/3 Menace is simply not good enough. It would need to be a 4/4 Menace to make it worth the triple black cost, but if you're gonna commit to making the card at that (appropriate) power level, then that becomes the only thing a player should be doing in that limited format, because that's insanely powerful. The limited format would necessarily become an exclusively mono-color format, and one less interesting to draft and with less replay value than the only other mostly mono-color limited format in Magic's history. So you either make it a fine but forgettable flood-insurance mechanic (as on Rhymnir Shade), or you make it a hallmark format-warping mechanic. After designing Rhymnir Shade, I knew I needed to change it.
The present version solves every problem. You can make a 3UG card have a vivid cost of UUUGG. You can make a 3RR card have a 1RRRR vivid cost. There's a greater amount of flexibility here, and a flexibility that doesn't water down the significance of the flavor. This Vivid can contribute to the world of Rhymnir instead of dominate it. Vivid isn't exactly what I had in mind when I launched Rhymnir a month ago, but I see a lot of promise in the gameplay and immersive experience it offers. I felt really good today after I made Groundswell Behemoth. I'll keep designing vivid cards for the DCC this month to continue playing around with the mechanic, but I think I've arrived at a winner. Designing mechanics is really difficult.
@Black_Waltz: Thanks for the perspective. I see how Enrich could be helpful for creating a unique Cube experience. Interestingly, you can template every Enrich card as a Vivid card.
StonerOfKruphix & kjsharp (but what if it's a Gideon planeswalker creature?)
HM: Shukkets (Zedruu wants this soooo bad)
Nicol Bolas shows up and kills Gideon himself. *wipes hands*
...I don't think it matters for Gideon because he's always indestructible. Same with Sarkhan. But, for a future planeswalker, maybe a "whichever is greater" text would be good to put in there. I suspect that, left as is, it would be understood to be the player's choice. It seems to be an unwritten rule of Magic right now that if planeswalkers become creatures, they do so only as indestructible creatures.
Dew Drops W
Enchantment (C)
Ethereal 4
When a counter is removed from Dew Drops, you gain 2 life.
---------
That doesn't work. I'd like for that to work because it helps minimize complexity of non-creature cards with ethereal. I wish there were a way to resolve this conundrum.
I'm personally having a hard time evaluating the mechanic. It plays out so differently on every card. On this one it's like a two-turn combat trick on a 2/1 body. On others it can be just an undercosted rental fatty like Calciderm. On others it can be a combo enabler (imagine giving a mythic dragon ethereal, firebreathing, and a remove counter trigger.). While this particular card has a very distinct and obvious mission, some Ethereal cards might be rather ambiguous in how you're supposed to play with them (maybe that's good, maybe that's bad).
Like Vanishing, there's a lot of versatility here -- it can be a "workhorse mechanic". And like Vanishing, it can make a Limited gameplay feel and play different from other sets. I'm trying to figure out why one would choose one over the other.
Possibly, and possibly with a different keyword (Impress/Impression). I might wait for the second set to do that, not sure at this point. I think it helps keeps the flavor and immersion consistent if "vivid/vivify" is exclusively used to enable a player to cast two alternate versions of the same creature. If I do choice d, the front-half turns into a pseudo-spell as you're conceiving it. Consider:
Chilling Air 1U
Creature - Elemental (U)
Defender, Flying
When Chilling Air enters the battlefield, tap target creature. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
Vivify (When this creature enters the battlefield, you may return it transformed to its owner's hand.)
0/3
//////
Freezing Air 2UUU
Enchantment Creature - Elemental (U)
Flying
Whenever a creature attacks you, tap it. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
4/4
The submitted version is cleaner and less-constricting, I think, but this is akin to what option d would look like.
You have to do *something* to transform it because in Magic you can't willy nilly decide which side of a double-faced card you want to play with. I had come up with a whole host of various methods of transforming them, including:
a) they transform when they become revealed from your hand or library.
b) they transform when a certain condition is met from your hand (same condition for all vivid cards).
c) they transform when a certain condition is met from your hand (card-specific conditions for each card).
d) Vivify is a blink transformation ability keyword: "Vivify (When ~ enters the battlefield, you may return it to your hand. If you do, transform it.)"
e) they transform when you pay a kicker cost (e.g. Vivify 2G. If you paid the vivify cost, it enters the battlefield transformed).
f) the one depicted on the submitted card.
I thought this would be a fun mechanic that helps alleviate the effects of mana screw and flood in Limited. I think Limited formats are better when these worst aspects of Magic can be ameliorated.
Hey LnGrrrR, I'm undecided on that question. I have this same dilemma with another mechanic - "Impress" -, although I may try to combine the two mechanics into one somehow. The benefit of "enter from anywhere" is that you can use it with non-permanent cards (like Startled Awake). However, they become more complex.
You and Blackwaltz both seem to have a preference for B. That lack of choice and modality leads to an appealing simplicity, so I think I'll probably go with that one. Although that version does go against Startled Awake.
I think B & C are better than A. The difference between B & C, practically speaking, is that C is more flexible because you are in control over which side you want the card to be in the graveyard. B is a simpler mechanic because you *have* to flip the card when it hits the graveyard. B is also better for newer players or for players who don't know the set because you don't have to remember what the back side of the card is. I suspect that you're right that B is the way to go. I'll wait for others to chime in before making a final decision. It means a lot that you found B flavorful - I think B presents the clearest flavor, and it's super important to me that that carry through.
As with Vivid, thank you for providing feedback. It really means a lot to me
Idealon of a Pierced Heart 3RR
Creature - Elemental Hellion (U)
Whenever Idealon of a Pierced Heart becomes blocked, it deals 2 damage to target player.
Nightmare - When Idealon of a Pierced Heart enters the graveyard, you may flip it and return it to your hand.
5/4
//
Nightmare of a Pierced Heart 1R
Enchantment - Aura Curse Nightmare (U)
Enchant Player.
At the beginning of enchanted player's upkeep, Nightmare of a Pierced Heart deals 1 damage to that player.
Idealon of a Pierced Heart 3RR
Creature - Elemental Hellion (U)
Whenever Idealon of a Pierced Heart becomes blocked, it deals 2 damage to target player.
Nightmare - When Idealon of a Pierced Heart enters the graveyard, flip it.
5/4
//
Nightmare of a Pierced Heart
Enchantment - Aura Curse Nightmare (U)
Enchant Player.
At the beginning of enchanted player's upkeep, Nightmare of a Pierced Heart deals 1 damage to that player.
Nightmare 1R (You may cast this spell from your graveyard for its Nightmare cost)
Idealon of a Pierced Heart 3RR
Creature - Elemental Hellion (U)
Whenever Idealon of a Pierced Heart becomes blocked, it deals 2 damage to target player.
Nightmare 1R - Flip this card and return it to the battlefield. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.
5/4
//
Nightmare of a Pierced Heart
Enchantment - Aura Curse Nightmare (U)
Enchant Player.
At the beginning of enchanted player's upkeep, Nightmare of a Pierced Heart deals 1 damage to that player.
Is there some way to block this sort of thing in paper? Could the mechanic be rewritten? Perhaps there could be check cards in booster packs like in Shadows over Innistrad block where you mark the cards with Brainstorm that you have in your deck. I would prefer to keep the library functionality if possible.
When X=3, you get 9 3/3s. At X=4, you get 16 3/3s. Just because there's an XX in the casting cost doesn't mean that "X" is halved throughout the rules text. If X=2, then X=2 throughout the card. To get the effect I think you want to have, you need to change "X 3/3 beast tokens" to "a 3/3 beast token".
Still not as good as Ancestral Recall
I like this version of Brim. Only took me 3 weeks to figure out one I liked (*sigh*). At the same time I discerned another version I would like as well - putting the time counters on it first and the brim ability triggering when you remove the last time counter and return it to your hand. The ability I put on the card in today's submission is more in keeping with traditional R&D design. The alternative I just mentioned might be better for TV because it sets up clear, visible points of anticipation toward which excitement can build, a consideration whose relevance I don't quite know how to weigh.
Regarding you 2nd point, a 3UG card could have several sorts of vivid costs, as you noted. It could be UGGGG, UUGGG, UUUGG, UUUUG, or 1UUGG, for example.
The present version solves every problem. You can make a 3UG card have a vivid cost of UUUGG. You can make a 3RR card have a 1RRRR vivid cost. There's a greater amount of flexibility here, and a flexibility that doesn't water down the significance of the flavor. This Vivid can contribute to the world of Rhymnir instead of dominate it. Vivid isn't exactly what I had in mind when I launched Rhymnir a month ago, but I see a lot of promise in the gameplay and immersive experience it offers. I felt really good today after I made Groundswell Behemoth. I'll keep designing vivid cards for the DCC this month to continue playing around with the mechanic, but I think I've arrived at a winner. Designing mechanics is really difficult.
@Black_Waltz: Thanks for the perspective. I see how Enrich could be helpful for creating a unique Cube experience. Interestingly, you can template every Enrich card as a Vivid card.
Nicol Bolas shows up and kills Gideon himself. *wipes hands*
...I don't think it matters for Gideon because he's always indestructible. Same with Sarkhan. But, for a future planeswalker, maybe a "whichever is greater" text would be good to put in there. I suspect that, left as is, it would be understood to be the player's choice. It seems to be an unwritten rule of Magic right now that if planeswalkers become creatures, they do so only as indestructible creatures.