Grim Harvest5BB
Sorcery (R)
Exile all cards from all graveyards. Each player's life total becomes equal to the number of creature cards exiled this way from his or hers graveyard. "How can you be so cold?", asked Lianda, horrified. "Easily", answered Enric, turning his milky eyes towards her, "I'm dead".
I don't see the confusion in the green card. That meaning requires the word "total" - see Formidable or Mossbridge Troll and Reveillark specifically. I agree that it should be "two creatures other than enchanted creature", but I didn't want to complicate even more, and I guess the trapped individual could exert some force as well?
I also don't get the "more black flavor/effect" references in the second one. Could you help me here?
About the green card - You don't see the confusion because your knowledge of magic affects your understanding of the card. As I've said, try and see this as a brand new player. It's the same reasoning which causes Wizards to template some ETB effects as "When this or another FOO enter the battlefield" and "Whenever another FOO enters the battlefield", but never "Whenever a FOO enters the battlefield". It's a small issue, but it sticks out in a top-down design, since each reading effects the flavor.
As for the black, I can't speak for moss, but I think he meant to say that the "Sacrifice this unless you pay" effect brings to mind extortion from a flavor perspective, which is black rather than red.
If it helps, I thought it's pretty dangerous as well. Won't go so far as to say busted, but it does feed storm and can arguably replace Gitaxian Probe, so I'm a bit concerned.
My biggest problem was that the main requirement was an iconic creature, not a creature of an iconic type. I don't think the term "iconic creature" is hard to define. I don't think the term "cool creature" is hard to define. I'm upset that there appearantly a major requirement that I was not aware of (and I wasn't the only one) that was hidden away. I have, I think, stated enough reasons why it didn't make sense to me to even consider creature type as having anything to do with making an iconic rare.
Edit: Oh, and thanks for the reading material, BTW. I'm sure it took some time to curate.
No it doesn't. The icons for each color have always been the same since Hydra's where finalized as green's iconics. Its true not all iconics are used on every plane but that isn't relevant.
I actually think it's really relevant. It goes to show that the term "iconic" is fluid. Please remeber that before Sphinxes, Djins and Leviathans were considered the blue iconic creature type. Green went a long time with only Beast as an iconic creature type. Tomorrow Wizards might decide that dragons should appear in all colors and change the red iconic creature type to phoenixes. who knows.
This is basically all incorrect, again Iconic is a specific design term for the most recognizable rare creature for each color in all of magic. Gods and elementals where in each color, Vampires are too small and not as popular or large as Demons, Sphinxes (or dragons/angels) not being in Khans doesn't make them not the most iconic rare creatures for those associated colors.
Again the details of the requirements where detailed in the clarifications section. I thank you for the feedback that the design term iconic maybe should of been explained elsewhere. But really the clarifications spoiler is there exactly to clear up this situation.
I'd like to see a source for that definition, if you can find it. Regardless, that doesn't matter much, because that was not the challenge. The challenge was: "Create a rare, iconic creature with a single ability that's approximately 4 lines or less. It can also include 0-1 evergreen keywords." not "Create a rare creature of an iconic creature type of its color..."
If a black angel or a blue dragon would be fine for your challenge (and nothing say they don't) please don't tell me that the color matters in the decision of what is or isn't iconic.
Iconic is a design term in mtg, just like the characteristic types. (Human, Merfolk, Vampire/Zombie, Golbin, Elf)
I included it in the clarifications from the start, I'm sorry if you feel that isn't sufficient.
EDIT: I would never include a challenge that asked for a "Iconic" card in the non-mtg design sense as that is a highly subjective term that doesn't make for a good design challenge. Its like me simply asking you to make a "cool" card.
Is there an outside list of iconic creatures? Probably not, since it changes from block to block. Gods were iconic in Theros, Elementals were iconic in Lorwyn. Vampires were iconic for half of magic. Were there sphinxes in Tarkir? No, but that doesn't mean blue didn't have iconic creatures in Khans.
This is an arbitrary limitation, which should have been part of the main challenge if you felt they were integral to it.
Iconic in this reference only means it has to be an Angel, Sphinx, Demon, Dragon or Hydra.
Um... what now? If the creature type was part of the requirements, why was it not mentioned in the main challenge? I didn't see the clarification that mentioned it until well after the deadline, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. I interpreted the challenge as a rare card that has an ability that's iconic. Is Doran, the Siege Tower not iconic? how about Godsire? Morphling? Verdant Force? Sliver Queen? Juzám Djinn? Ball Lightning? I could go on...
Mostly I'm annoyed that a main requirement was hidden in the clarifications. I ignored it in my critique, and I do not intend to change it. I encourage others to do the same.
@Doombringer: The start date is the 1st of the month. First round is also the signup. I'd give the first round about five days of design, so everybody can sign up, and the rest of the rounds should have about 4 days of design. The critiques for round 1 and 2 can be done while the design phase for the next round is up. After that, you can do a top 8, semifinals and finals or the shorter version of top 6, then finals with three players.
Here's an example schedule for you, feel free to change it in any way that suits you.
Jan 1st: Round 1/signup
Jan 6th: Round 2, Critiques for Round 1
Jan 11th: Round 3, critiques for Round 2
Jan 15th: Critiques for round 3
Jan 18th: Top 8
Jan 22nd: Critiques for round 8
Jan 25th: Semifinals
Jan 29th: Critiques for semifinals
Feb 1st: Finals
Feb 5th: Poll up
Feb 10th: Poll ends.
The problem with the list is that, each round, you are competing against someone in 5 out of 6 critiques, another player in 4 out 6, etc...This means that those two guys are competing for the same points, while the remaining N-2 players get critiques from other sets. I realize it happens to everyone, but you're not leveling the field this way because worse cards can still get better scores than you, just because you didn't face them directly. With teams that happens as well, of course, but you are not in the same race, so it's fine.
I get that the lack of players might be an issue for the team structure, but I really think the list option has many flaws.
Until such a time as someone with a P.hD in Statistics is willing to come forth and design a better system, all scoring systems will be flawed in some way. You can make a case for the DCC and MCC having flaws in their systems. The list is simple and answers many problems that teams had, especially with a low number of players.
Of course, this discussion is here, among other reasons, to allow people to offer different scoring systems and debate them, so if you've got a new idea, I'm all for hearing it.
Or, if you truly think the teams are a better option, you can always host yourself and use whatever method stikes you as best.
@ anyone with a no show on the list: skip anyone who did not post a card and go for the next player on the list. I'm sorry, but this is a busy week, and I had to post everything really fast today and from my mobile. Some time later today or tomorrow I'll erase anyone who didn't post a card from the list, so for now, you can just assume those names are not there.
@Solesticio: hey, I'm with you, I loved the teams and did my best to incorporate them into my theme each month I hosted in the past, but with less players in the CCL, the teams made less sense. As people drop, there would be players that will find their way to the top 8 for no other reason than the fact that the other players on their team dropped, while other teams will be neck-and-neck. In addition, critiques when there is a two player team reviewing a six player team end up really scewed. The list is simple, and impervious to these issues.
This is meant to be a return to form for the CCL. There will be three rounds followed by a top 8, then semifinals and finals.
I want to participate this month, and I like the scenery you set up in round 1 very much. I'd just like a few clarifications.
I didn't follow what happened in November as I didn't participate because of real life things. I just read now the last two pages of this thread and it looks that scores haven't been reset after the cut last month, unlike what usually happens. Just to be sure, a "return to form" implies that the scores DO reset after the first three rounds, right?
Also, I'm worried that a "return to form" implies another return to the troubled team system instead of the (much better in my opinion) list system. Can you tell me something about what system you're going to be using or will I just have to wait and see?
Finally, if I read this correctly we're back to having six rounds, so we'll just have to accept that this month's CCL will heavily go into January, right? The reason one round was (rigthly in my opinion) cut recently was to try to make CCLs coincide with actual months rather than a month and a half.
Yes, this means that scores will not carry between round 3 and top 8. As for the teams, that will depend entirely on the number of participants. The more there are, the less effective the list gets, so if we'll have an exceptionally large number of players (say, over 28) then teams will make a comeback.
I mean to schedule the rounds so that the finals, and only the finals will be posted on January. Voting may go as late as January 10th, but if you have some real-life shenanigans that you expect will hurt your ability to play in January, you should not be concerned.
I have hosted CCLs before. I was told they were quite fun to play. I feel confident that I can bring the December CCL to a successful and fun run once again.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
About the green card - You don't see the confusion because your knowledge of magic affects your understanding of the card. As I've said, try and see this as a brand new player. It's the same reasoning which causes Wizards to template some ETB effects as "When this or another FOO enter the battlefield" and "Whenever another FOO enters the battlefield", but never "Whenever a FOO enters the battlefield". It's a small issue, but it sticks out in a top-down design, since each reading effects the flavor.
As for the black, I can't speak for moss, but I think he meant to say that the "Sacrifice this unless you pay" effect brings to mind extortion from a flavor perspective, which is black rather than red.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
Didn't get to judge it though.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
Expect the ending to be posted soon.
Edit: Ending is here.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
Edit: Oh, and thanks for the reading material, BTW. I'm sure it took some time to curate.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
I actually think it's really relevant. It goes to show that the term "iconic" is fluid. Please remeber that before Sphinxes, Djins and Leviathans were considered the blue iconic creature type. Green went a long time with only Beast as an iconic creature type. Tomorrow Wizards might decide that dragons should appear in all colors and change the red iconic creature type to phoenixes. who knows.
I'd like to see a source for that definition, if you can find it. Regardless, that doesn't matter much, because that was not the challenge. The challenge was: "Create a rare, iconic creature with a single ability that's approximately 4 lines or less. It can also include 0-1 evergreen keywords." not "Create a rare creature of an iconic creature type of its color..."
If a black angel or a blue dragon would be fine for your challenge (and nothing say they don't) please don't tell me that the color matters in the decision of what is or isn't iconic.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
Is there an outside list of iconic creatures? Probably not, since it changes from block to block. Gods were iconic in Theros, Elementals were iconic in Lorwyn. Vampires were iconic for half of magic. Were there sphinxes in Tarkir? No, but that doesn't mean blue didn't have iconic creatures in Khans.
This is an arbitrary limitation, which should have been part of the main challenge if you felt they were integral to it.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
Um... what now? If the creature type was part of the requirements, why was it not mentioned in the main challenge? I didn't see the clarification that mentioned it until well after the deadline, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. I interpreted the challenge as a rare card that has an ability that's iconic. Is Doran, the Siege Tower not iconic? how about Godsire? Morphling? Verdant Force? Sliver Queen? Juzám Djinn? Ball Lightning? I could go on...
Mostly I'm annoyed that a main requirement was hidden in the clarifications. I ignored it in my critique, and I do not intend to change it. I encourage others to do the same.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
Here's an example schedule for you, feel free to change it in any way that suits you.
Jan 1st: Round 1/signup
Jan 6th: Round 2, Critiques for Round 1
Jan 11th: Round 3, critiques for Round 2
Jan 15th: Critiques for round 3
Jan 18th: Top 8
Jan 22nd: Critiques for round 8
Jan 25th: Semifinals
Jan 29th: Critiques for semifinals
Feb 1st: Finals
Feb 5th: Poll up
Feb 10th: Poll ends.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
Until such a time as someone with a P.hD in Statistics is willing to come forth and design a better system, all scoring systems will be flawed in some way. You can make a case for the DCC and MCC having flaws in their systems. The list is simple and answers many problems that teams had, especially with a low number of players.
Of course, this discussion is here, among other reasons, to allow people to offer different scoring systems and debate them, so if you've got a new idea, I'm all for hearing it.
Or, if you truly think the teams are a better option, you can always host yourself and use whatever method stikes you as best.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
@Solesticio: hey, I'm with you, I loved the teams and did my best to incorporate them into my theme each month I hosted in the past, but with less players in the CCL, the teams made less sense. As people drop, there would be players that will find their way to the top 8 for no other reason than the fact that the other players on their team dropped, while other teams will be neck-and-neck. In addition, critiques when there is a two player team reviewing a six player team end up really scewed. The list is simple, and impervious to these issues.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
Yes, this means that scores will not carry between round 3 and top 8. As for the teams, that will depend entirely on the number of participants. The more there are, the less effective the list gets, so if we'll have an exceptionally large number of players (say, over 28) then teams will make a comeback.
I mean to schedule the rounds so that the finals, and only the finals will be posted on January. Voting may go as late as January 10th, but if you have some real-life shenanigans that you expect will hurt your ability to play in January, you should not be concerned.
I have hosted CCLs before. I was told they were quite fun to play. I feel confident that I can bring the December CCL to a successful and fun run once again.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!
Edit: It is up.
Host, December 2015: A Winter Wonderland? - R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL April 2014: A Game of Fate - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinal|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL December 2012: Spy Games - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL November 2010: The Perfect Crime - Signup|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
Host, CCL August 2009: A Commander's Journey: Signups|R1|R2|R3|Top 8|Semifinals|Finals|Poll
I've got tons of art from the web. Want art for a render? PM me! Want to create your own collection? Start here!