Raw card stuff just seems blue. Honestly, I think they should split Diabolic Tutor two ways:
Deep Thoughts 2UU
Sorcery
Search your library for a card and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
Blood Scrying 2BB
Instant
Search your library for a card, reveal it, and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library. You lose life equal to the converted mana cost of that card.
Since it is in flavor for both blue and black, but for different reasons. Blue wants to think out the best thing to do, and black wants to do anything to get exactly what it wants.
Only problem is the black variant would need to be shown to the Opponent, else how does he know your losing the right amount of life.
Better to make it a set amount lost. Vampiric Tutor style. As a matter of fact, they need to bring that back.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
Wouldn't it be just funny that after handing out foil ***s as player rewards and allowing them to reach exorbitant prices, Wotc actually removes the card from the Core set? Then replacing it with Damnation, allowing it to reach exorbitant prices and then never reprinting it again?
Id find it funnier if they not only broke thier own flavor rules to do that, but also broke the rule of never putting a block mechnic (Planeshifted) card into the Core Set.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
It makes it viable. Snow White was played, even though there was UW control.
Plus with Black, you get access to all those triple black cards, and the nifty Tendrils of Corruption. It'll also let you run a Sheets engine.
Well, Snow White was played, but loses consistantly now. But thats not technically a fair compairison, since its a combo deck, and beating a combo deck is half figureing out the combo.
I'l have to wait to see the lists. I remember Mirrodin black MBC, I hated playing against it, but respected it, I'll have to see how this seasons go.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
OMG?! This is huge, its going to make mono black viable again(the last time was when mutilate was legal).
This set is going to turn magic on its head, it already has a lot of high value cards.
...
I have a question and Im not being mean at all.
Why the heck would you ever want to run Mono-Black Control in todays format? (Barring money, most of MBC cards are expensive anyways)
Splash Green and you have Mana Accel, Putrefy, call of the Herd, splash white and you have Mortify, Angel of Dispair, Akroma, Faiths Fetters. Oh and Wrath of God.
Splash Green and White you get Life gain tossed in...
Add that all in, toss in some Hyppies, or Persecutes and you have a very disgusting control deck in its own right...
So why again, what cards exactly, are demanding this call for Mono-Black control? Its better with Green, its Better with White. Its better with both. Both options open up more options... Mono-Black gives you limited options, limited finishers and limited control.
Im just wondering what this Massive MBC deck you are all talking about is.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
Finally, the card helps solve a flavor problem for white. White is the one color for equality. It doesn't like special treatment. It wants to make rules that everyone follows. It doesn't tend to push itself. So how do you get advantage when you're unwilling to give yourself a leg up? You find a way to turn equality into a weapon. Make it active and offensive. Wrath of God answers this call. Evening the playing field is quite aggressive when you're the one behind. Or you're the one that knew such an event was coming and planned ahead. Wrath of God gives the most defensive color some teeth.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
And why? Almost always your exact reasoning, and everytime WotC points out in practice that they believe *** belongs in the Core and in the Game.
Well that and "OMG its SOO overpowered!! BAN BAN!"
I remember the arguement that 8 Psi-Blasts in Standard (notice I said Psi-Blast, not Char, some people have no clue) would warp the meta! Blue with Burn!! Oh Lord!!
Nothing happened, I think Ive been hit with a Psi Blast once since they were dropped.
Im not sure where Im going with that... Anywho, its all official, its on the site, I espect the 8th there will be an Article about it, and we will all see the big answer then.
And really, Cataclysm > Wrath of God, hence why it isnt in the Core... I dont see it being reprinted.
Edit - Been great conversing with you guys, Im off to bed in the new year. *** 4 LIFE!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
Well, the great life gain is in multi colors, you want great life gain you go W/G or W/U (for the Azorious what ever, amazing card, amazing its still not a staple) With out that we have some mono-white combo life gain (snow white) and Faiths Fetters. But thats not becuase of whites strength, but those two colors combined strength.
It is a good weenie deck, and could compete that way.
I dont know, I think a Gruul deck would hand a White deck its butt with out ***.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
But, there isn't a difference between destroying one of something and several of it.
Black makes you discard one card, or makes everyone discard several.
Black kills one thing, and already kills everything too.
Blue makes you draw a card, or everyone discard several.
Blue bounces one thing, or everything.
Red deals damage to one thing, or everything.
Red kills one land, or all lands.
Green pumps one thing, or everything.
White kills everything... but not one thing. Odd man out?
Pretty much, again this points out how if they take *** away they would completely neuter the color.White would just be a buy for aggro weenie decks.
Unless they put Cataclysm back in, but that would cuase as much crying and screaming as there are people that always say, *** is going away.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
That was exactly a point I stated earlier, in another thread; every color can warp it's philosophy to contain pretty much any effect, but that doesn't mean that you could print every card in every color. If you heard about a cool new card, but all you really knew about it was that it involved the words 'destroy' and 'creature', well... what color would immediately pop into your head?
Just Destroy Creature? Black, becuase its king of Spot Removal.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
... because they're based exactly off Wrath. My point is that black destroys creatures, and black hurts all creatures, and they have overlapped in the past. It just makes more sense in black, because you can go and say, well, black kills stuff and prevents regen and also has dozens of instances of such effects being spread out across all creatures. This is just the first that spreads out that one, particular effect among all creatures.
I love you so you know, but with this mindset, Green with Hurricane and Squall, Red with Pyroclasm and Wildfire and Blue with Exhaustion all fit and beg the question why cant *** be in flavor for them? Red blows stuff up, thats what *** does, Green Uses nature to overhelm, thats like ***, blue makes things go away, thats pretty *** like....
Plus, if you removed every card in your list that doesnt have an exception to what it blows up, you would be left with around what? 10? in all of magic history?
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
5. Now it has the mass removal piece which me and my friend have been talking about... the final piece for a Bx deck that could be the cornerstone of a great new archetype. This is my playset...
I dont think White is subpar at all.
Disenchant > Arena, Hypnotic Spector says darn to pacify, Devouring Light, Condemn, Faith's Fetters... Wrath of God.
I would say Hypnotic Spector is still its uber discard, since it actually advances your game in the process (deals damage) but really, white doesnt have much of an answer to discard, but it never has.
cant argue with that. but White has Loxodon Hierarchs, Akroma, Ressurect, and mutiltudes of other Life gain and easy splash into Green and Black to make serious ugly control decks.
My W/G/B Control deck would hand most if not all B/X control decks butts to them becuase it has more answers and better reach with its life gain (Hierarchs, Fetters) its discard (Persecutes), Creature control (***, Putrefy, Mortify, Fetters) Permanent Distruction (Angel of Dispair), Recursion (Debtors Knell, dont laugh, its brutal) Mana Accel (Birds) and plain fat, (Hierarchs, Akroma, Angel of Dispair, Call of the Heard).
And I doubt I would add in Damnation to it or its side board, I dont need it. My creature control is already fine..
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
Black kills nonblack creatures, creatures under a certain power or toughness, creatures that are enchanted... or just a couple dozen ways to just kill creatures, period.
In fact... there's a lot of black wrath effects, too.
Sure, it'd only be the second straight-up 'destroy all creautres' spell in black, but... it's hardly without precedent. Heck, I bet black's got more partial wraths than white does.
But if you qouted his whole post you would have seen that every card you listed fell into the catagory he put up as being Black. Plus most of those carsd arent Destroy all creatures, you should double check that list. Alot of Destroy all white, or destroy all Green, or Destroy all card that share a creature type, those just dont count.
Black:
-X/-X effects(Mutilate, Sudden Death, etc.)
'life-draining'
'destroy/scare the non-believer' effects(Terror, Dark Banishing, etc.)
But dont fall into the exact set of Just plain ol destroy every creature. There are exception, but I bet they came at one every 2 years or so, if not longer in some cases.
If you were to list, the cards that just say, destroy every creature, it cant be regenerated that black has I think it would be countable on one hand.
However, I can list card after card that white has that does this exact affect.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
I still disagree strongly that Wrath should be a black effect. Black doesn't care about killing all creatures, it cares about killing creatures that don't have the 'black mindset'. That's why so much black removal can only target non-black creatures.
White & black are the two strongest direct creature removal colors(with red being the strongest indirect through burn). The split is:
White:
pacifism effects
combat based removal(Condemn, Reciprocate, etc.)
'destroy all creatures' effects(Wrath effects)
Black:
-X/-X effects(Mutilate, Sudden Death, etc.)
'life-draining'
'destroy/scare the non-believer' effects(Terror, Dark Banishing, etc.)
Now, the thing to keep in mind is that black doesn't mind sacrificing it's own creatures to do this, as long as they are serving a purpose, beyond just dieing. Decree of Pain is a great example. Yes it kills everything which is slightly off color, but that is not the real flavor of the card. The real flavor is converting creatures into other resources, which is very, very black(do I even need to bother listing examples?). Mutilate is not a 'destroy all creatures' card, it is an 'all creatures get -X/-X card' which is a black effect, not a white one. Yes, most of the time Mutilate will kill everything, but not always and that's the key difference.
Ignoring the flavor, historically it should still be obvious that 'destroy all creatures' effects are 100% white:
And there are others. Would these be white if Wrath of God wasn't around? That's a moot point. It's like asking "Would counters be blue without Counterspell in alpha?" or "What if disenchant was red in alpha?".
Its like bashing your head against a wall, I think most these people got thier decks handed to them in shreds by a deck packing *** and they have been scarred for life.
I just emailed MaRo, you know he says he reads ALL his email, so I asked him if he could finally clear something up for me and a certain board I think he knows about.
Heres to hopeing that in a couple weeks I can post up here a thread to get stickied saying, dont ever speculate about *** being removed again.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
The thing I am seeing here is a entrance for power creep. If you give control boosted cards, then you must give aggro more powerful cards to compensate. We've already seen just a glimpse of this with cards such as the white Blastoderm. I wouldn't go calling aggro dead just yet......
Amen, or say this is going to even warp the meta. First, only what? 11 cards are spoiled? out of 165? We dont know what they have.
Im hoping the power creep is only for this set, I can see it, and Can even accept it. I just hope it slowly creeps down again.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
1. See counterspell.
2. Temporal Isolation, Condemn, Faith's Fetters, Devouring Light, that new Drop...
3. Every color has balancing cards. Every color.
4. It kills your own army (optimal play aside); it's perfectly self sacrifice.
5.It makes sence that the best kill creatures spell is in the kill creatures color.
Plus, I've gotta agree with the guy who said that they really don't want this and Wrath in standard for two years. For that alone, I'm betting Wrath is what's dropped.
On a somewhat different tact... between Wrath, Damnation, and Drop of whozits, aggro is gonna need some seriously epic creatures to remain viable.
* Solace does his best not to get too excited about predicting this too, albeit he thought it'd be more expensive.
1. Card was overpowered (according to Wizards) and not replaced with a direct copy.
2. So thats Three White REMOVAL spells out of 9 sets over 3 blocks? I didnt say creature control, but creature removal. How many does black have again?
3. True, and if they drop *** white would no longer have one.
4. Thats not Self Sacrifice for Gain, thats just Balancing the board, very different when you think about it.
5. No, black is the best SPOT creature kill color, not the best board sweeper, as a mater of fact, it seems to be a very purposful effort on wizards part to make that a weak spot in Blacks armor. Only tossing the color a few cards in the vien every once and while.
Even if they do drop *** for 10th, this will rotate in a year and then we will have NO *** for what? another year? Im tired, cant think of the exact time frame.
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Only problem is the black variant would need to be shown to the Opponent, else how does he know your losing the right amount of life.
Better to make it a set amount lost. Vampiric Tutor style. As a matter of fact, they need to bring that back.
ftw.
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
Id find it funnier if they not only broke thier own flavor rules to do that, but also broke the rule of never putting a block mechnic (Planeshifted) card into the Core Set.
Id find it hilarious.
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
Well, Snow White was played, but loses consistantly now. But thats not technically a fair compairison, since its a combo deck, and beating a combo deck is half figureing out the combo.
I'l have to wait to see the lists. I remember Mirrodin black MBC, I hated playing against it, but respected it, I'll have to see how this seasons go.
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
...
I have a question and Im not being mean at all.
Why the heck would you ever want to run Mono-Black Control in todays format? (Barring money, most of MBC cards are expensive anyways)
Splash Green and you have Mana Accel, Putrefy, call of the Herd, splash white and you have Mortify, Angel of Dispair, Akroma, Faiths Fetters. Oh and Wrath of God.
Splash Green and White you get Life gain tossed in...
Add that all in, toss in some Hyppies, or Persecutes and you have a very disgusting control deck in its own right...
So why again, what cards exactly, are demanding this call for Mono-Black control? Its better with Green, its Better with White. Its better with both. Both options open up more options... Mono-Black gives you limited options, limited finishers and limited control.
Im just wondering what this Massive MBC deck you are all talking about is.
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr164
Read it. Be sad. from the Maro himself.
Specific qoute
Finally, the card helps solve a flavor problem for white. White is the one color for equality. It doesn't like special treatment. It wants to make rules that everyone follows. It doesn't tend to push itself. So how do you get advantage when you're unwilling to give yourself a leg up? You find a way to turn equality into a weapon. Make it active and offensive. Wrath of God answers this call. Evening the playing field is quite aggressive when you're the one behind. Or you're the one that knew such an event was coming and planned ahead. Wrath of God gives the most defensive color some teeth.
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
I sure do see the patern.
maybe, maybe and maybe.
Ive been hanging around these boards, a very long time, and every Core set release I read the same thing.
"OMG! *** GOING AWAYZ???!!! THANX GODZ!! LOLLERSKATES!!"
And why? Almost always your exact reasoning, and everytime WotC points out in practice that they believe *** belongs in the Core and in the Game.
Well that and "OMG its SOO overpowered!! BAN BAN!"
I remember the arguement that 8 Psi-Blasts in Standard (notice I said Psi-Blast, not Char, some people have no clue) would warp the meta! Blue with Burn!! Oh Lord!!
Nothing happened, I think Ive been hit with a Psi Blast once since they were dropped.
Im not sure where Im going with that... Anywho, its all official, its on the site, I espect the 8th there will be an Article about it, and we will all see the big answer then.
And really, Cataclysm > Wrath of God, hence why it isnt in the Core... I dont see it being reprinted.
Edit - Been great conversing with you guys, Im off to bed in the new year. *** 4 LIFE!!
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
It is a good weenie deck, and could compete that way.
I dont know, I think a Gruul deck would hand a White deck its butt with out ***.
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
Pretty much, again this points out how if they take *** away they would completely neuter the color.White would just be a buy for aggro weenie decks.
Unless they put Cataclysm back in, but that would cuase as much crying and screaming as there are people that always say, *** is going away.
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
Just Destroy Creature? Black, becuase its king of Spot Removal.
Destroy Every Creature? White.
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
I love you so you know, but with this mindset, Green with Hurricane and Squall, Red with Pyroclasm and Wildfire and Blue with Exhaustion all fit and beg the question why cant *** be in flavor for them? Red blows stuff up, thats what *** does, Green Uses nature to overhelm, thats like ***, blue makes things go away, thats pretty *** like....
Plus, if you removed every card in your list that doesnt have an exception to what it blows up, you would be left with around what? 10? in all of magic history?
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
I dont think White is subpar at all.
Disenchant > Arena, Hypnotic Spector says darn to pacify, Devouring Light, Condemn, Faith's Fetters... Wrath of God.
I would say Hypnotic Spector is still its uber discard, since it actually advances your game in the process (deals damage) but really, white doesnt have much of an answer to discard, but it never has.
cant argue with that. but White has Loxodon Hierarchs, Akroma, Ressurect, and mutiltudes of other Life gain and easy splash into Green and Black to make serious ugly control decks.
My W/G/B Control deck would hand most if not all B/X control decks butts to them becuase it has more answers and better reach with its life gain (Hierarchs, Fetters) its discard (Persecutes), Creature control (***, Putrefy, Mortify, Fetters) Permanent Distruction (Angel of Dispair), Recursion (Debtors Knell, dont laugh, its brutal) Mana Accel (Birds) and plain fat, (Hierarchs, Akroma, Angel of Dispair, Call of the Heard).
And I doubt I would add in Damnation to it or its side board, I dont need it. My creature control is already fine..
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
But if you qouted his whole post you would have seen that every card you listed fell into the catagory he put up as being Black. Plus most of those carsd arent Destroy all creatures, you should double check that list. Alot of Destroy all white, or destroy all Green, or Destroy all card that share a creature type, those just dont count.
Black:
-X/-X effects(Mutilate, Sudden Death, etc.)
'life-draining'
'destroy/scare the non-believer' effects(Terror, Dark Banishing, etc.)
But dont fall into the exact set of Just plain ol destroy every creature. There are exception, but I bet they came at one every 2 years or so, if not longer in some cases.
If you were to list, the cards that just say, destroy every creature, it cant be regenerated that black has I think it would be countable on one hand.
However, I can list card after card that white has that does this exact affect.
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
Its like bashing your head against a wall, I think most these people got thier decks handed to them in shreds by a deck packing *** and they have been scarred for life.
I just emailed MaRo, you know he says he reads ALL his email, so I asked him if he could finally clear something up for me and a certain board I think he knows about.
Heres to hopeing that in a couple weeks I can post up here a thread to get stickied saying, dont ever speculate about *** being removed again.
I can dream.
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
Amen, or say this is going to even warp the meta. First, only what? 11 cards are spoiled? out of 165? We dont know what they have.
Im hoping the power creep is only for this set, I can see it, and Can even accept it. I just hope it slowly creeps down again.
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.
1. Card was overpowered (according to Wizards) and not replaced with a direct copy.
2. So thats Three White REMOVAL spells out of 9 sets over 3 blocks? I didnt say creature control, but creature removal. How many does black have again?
3. True, and if they drop *** white would no longer have one.
4. Thats not Self Sacrifice for Gain, thats just Balancing the board, very different when you think about it.
5. No, black is the best SPOT creature kill color, not the best board sweeper, as a mater of fact, it seems to be a very purposful effort on wizards part to make that a weak spot in Blacks armor. Only tossing the color a few cards in the vien every once and while.
Even if they do drop *** for 10th, this will rotate in a year and then we will have NO *** for what? another year? Im tired, cant think of the exact time frame.
QFT!
My Extendo Sig! Because I want to be Cool!!
If anyone knows why G0-DRAW was banned I would love it if they would PM me. That guy was pure entertainment 100% of the time. Plus he never publicly responded to his Contraptions "Proof" that never panned out.