I don't think the prisons or bridges are necessary atm personally. I prefer to just race and that's worked for me just fine the past few months. Prison might be better paired with your removal if your set on using either.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Stony Silence, Disenchant, Engineered Explosives, Hurkyl's Recall, Timely Reinforcements, Crypt Incursion, Sun Droplet, etc. There are a plethora of cards we have against these two matches. Affinity, Infect and Fish are more troublesome than Burn though. Usually one Crypt Incursion gains so much burn can't keep up.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
This doesn't really fit the bill for a competitive Modern Mill list. Posting in the Deck Creation or Budget thread would probably be a more appropriate area for a list like this.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
I never said Seek is bad. I'm saying that it does one very specific thing against one card only to stay relevant in our sideboard. I absolutely cannot suggest that people play X slots of 15 sideboard cards with only one specific purpose to fight one specific card. Other cards like Spellbombs do this, net you a draw, and can be used against a wide field and still be relevant. I think a card like Seek is entirely too specific in a wide and random format like modern.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
I'm not a fan of Seek. It's only relevant for one card when the rest of your Emrakul answers have a wider field of use. I would cut ext, seek, and add an Engineered Explosives and 2 Stony Silence. Affinity is rough but Stony is just so good against some bad matches for us.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Good sideboard card, especially for the +15 life. Still, you MUST have Nihil Spellbomb x2 maindeck, you can't afford to have game 1 lost by default, or you will go nowhere.
I have 2 Crypt Incursion, 3 Bridge main, 3 Nihil Spellbomb, 1 Crypt Incursion, 3 Surgical Extraction side. Seems ok provided their deck mostly does nothing except for invoking Emrakul.
I dont like Spellbombs main because they deactivate Visions of Beyond
And Emrakul main is not supposed to be a good matchup after all.
you don't have to target your opponent with spellbomb. It can easily be played with visions. It's the best overall value caed that does what it does.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Swords are extremely clunky in Modern. The last deck I remember seeing using them was Faeries I think? That was purely sideboard as well. We don't really play a creature prominent deck either so 7/10 times it will probably be irrelevant. If you really wanted to go for a quick win with an equipment, Runechanter's Pike is a bomb in that aspect. The first strike will likely deal with any blockers and it turns any creature we own into a power house.
Someone asked me about a Dallas report and I hate to say that I didn't keep any notes from that day. I did play Infect R1, Death Zoo R2, Mono U Taking Turns R3, Jeskai Nahiri (Peter Ingram) R4, Nahiri Chord R5, Scapeshift R6, and Infect R7. I lost to Jeskai, Nahiri Chord and Infect in R7. Happy to say that the deck did what I wanted it to against the two decks I was worried about most being Infect and Death's Zoo. Engineered Explosives, Path's and IoK's helped me out tremendously in those matches. Explosives I think won me both Death's Zoo games. I played one in each of our games and it just devastated my opponent. I really lost out hard to Emrakul that day. Against Ingram I saw one Crypt Incursion in only ONE of our games and it was so late in that game that it didn't matter. I sided in some ridiculous amount of hate and didn't see anything. Variance is a cruel mistress sometimes. When I lost to Nahiri Chord it was because of more or less the same thing. I didn't see enough hate to combat emrakul, while at the same time fighting his 2 or 3 other combos present in the deck. My inability to interact had me losing to just aggro beats, and the combos. It was a brutal round, I did win one of those games though. The last round against Infect again, he Drew 3 creatures in a row and I lost flat out, haha. My first IoK took his t1 elf then he played another next turn that ate a path, then drew two blighted agents in a row in game 2. Game 1 he killed me t4, I didn't keep an opener with Path and didn't draw into it.
All in all I think I weakened myself against Emrakul and I paid for it. I did really well against the aggro decks like I was expecting and I think I might have been a bit too specific. It was a fun day though. Lots of people were complimenting the deck and were very interested in it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Echoing Truth if you have IoK, Set Adrift doesn't seem like a bad answer. Disenchant does it too. Thinking about it, IoK could solve this issue for you in most situations. If you rip it out before he can play it t2 then there is a realistic possibility that the rest will be milled. If he has none in hand then it will probably be too late before he does or they are all milled out in general. It will give you a t1 in most situations allowing for a t2 Hedron crab that can't be killed before the first mill trigger, since we retain priority and all as well. Seems like a solid option, especially paired with your SB choices in that match up.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
I know we've discussed Jace, Vryn's Prodigy a little but I am not sure how many of us are playing him. Is anyone actively using him? If so how's he performed and how many are you running? I'm debating on getting 2-4 since he's dipped so drastically in price. Any input from firsthand experience would be much appreciated.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
As a one of I find it hard to justify playing it. I've considered it but I don't think it's that big of a deal when I can use graveyard hate such as RiP or Spellbomb. As multiples I can't think of many decks I would want to use the card against. I'm trying to keep my sideboard very simple and have general all around utility answers. Not necessarily great cards on their own, but ones that create some sort of tempo loss generally against every deck type around. Of course some of my SB can be use for very specific things comparable to this, such as extracting Tron lands. I'm considering adding a 3rd Disenchant in the sb because of its wide use against hate cards for us. Echoing Truth still does more or less the same thing, and is easier to cast when fighting Blood Moon. It requires other cards to rid the problem permanently and that's unfortunate. I've got 1 or 2 more nights I can play this week before I settle on my list for Dallas.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
One of the reasons that I included the 4th Crypt Incursion is to ensure I draw it. Mill is a deck that has to draw it's "answers" in order to survive. With Spellbomb removed from my MB I only have Crypt Incursion MB to deal with Emrakul. The 4th is an answer to Emrakul and a way for me to cast it for low value without worry about not drawing into another if I know I only have 1 more copy in the deck. Incursion for 6+ life is good enough in most situations.
I think people play this card expecting to go big all the time when it's not necessary. I'm more concerned with getting it before t4 than gaining loads of life. With Mesmeric Orb in play, I like knowing that there are multiples as well. I've lost games due to untimely mills on my self knowing that the probability of me seeing the next one is significantly lower after X amount hit my GY. If I was playing 2 copies of Incursion and I saw one hit the GY from an orb I'd probably die inside a little bit.
Inquisition is another card that I feel like has that kind of power that Crypt Incursion does. This may stem from my knowledge of what lists usually run, but the knowing what my opponent has in hand is word the B mana alone to me. Usually the late game is a terrible time for a player to draw hand disruption, but my thoughts on that are this.
What exactly is a "late" game for mill? We are trying to mill our opponents as fast as possible, just as burn does. Unless you stick in more actual mill, other cards can be just as dead in a late game because we're playing mill. I've experienced too many plays where an IoK has saved my life late game. Because milling our opponent is no guarantee that we will hit a specific card, when we need it, I've found it to be significantly better in mill late game than any other deck I've played it in. It's hit game ending cards late game for me too often now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Well I play at 4 different stores so my meta is kind of all over the place to be honest. If you know me as a player, me playing Engineered Explosives MB isn't anything new. My Jeskai Control list that I piloted to 6th at state's icncluded a MB Explosives. That card is super relevant in nearly every match up and you'll always see me include it in a 3 color deck, sideboard or mainboard. I also beat Ad Nauseum G1 because I played a t2 Explosives for '0' and busted his 2x Lotus that came in t4. The card is good.
Explosives is a card that's relevant in pretty much every match. It will always hit something unless your dying to lands I suppose. I put it in the MB because I am expecting a lot of aggro in Dallas next week. I don't necessarily build my list to a stores certain Meta unless I want to try out something specific. In this case, i knew i have already had months of success playing MB Explosives in Jeskai, so it only seemed right MB in 3c mill when i need a way to slow the game state. I always try to play a 75 that I would win a GP or SCG Open. Otherwise, to me, it's a bit pointless playing if I expect my lists would perform badly at a large event and only well at FNM.
Also, Infect isn't really something that's in my meta. I saw this guy at state's a month ago or so and thats been it. He just happened to be at my store last night. Literally just a coincidence. I do appreciate your opinion on the matter though, Luke.
@Timba
The 3 GQ are necessary, imo. Since GQ can manipulate out U and B mana, 3 is fine. If you have to use one on your self, while not ideal, you will have your colors that you need to progress your game plan. Otherwise they can wreck your opponents mana combined with our milling and enable trap and makes Surgical Amazing in some matches like Tron.
I don't agree with more than 2 Shelldock Isle. 3 tapped lands is too much and the 20 cards or less in library requires it to be at the end of the game in almost every situation. I only need to see one at that stage in the game.
I usually feel the same about Inquisition, but I've found it to be nothing but value in this list. I did try out 4 IoK and 2 Thoughtseize, and that was indeed too much. IoK is a fantastic card and it's done nothing but save me in the early game on top of Path to Exile. I doubt I'll be cutting them since they've only proven their weight in gold to me.
The 4th Incursion was to test out against aggro. As I said, I'll be in Dallas and I am expecting a LOT of aggro. Burn is very prominent in the Midwest and it's extra hate for them. It's probably getting cut as I already mentioned.
Link isn't all that great. I really only like it on very specific creatures and was hoping to get testing in against burn last night. Timely would go a lot further against a wider variety of decks.
Okay, sorry for the late list. I just haven't had any time to actually sit down at a computer the past couple of days and lists are a nightmare on my phone.
I ended up going 4-1 tonight, losing to a bad judgment call against Skred Red and being greedy when I knew Blood Moon on t3 is very realistic. Would have won had I just played the Inquisition and taken the Moon. I got him to 11 cards with blood moon out since I had a Island and Swamp. Couldn't close out though but I was holding 2 traps and a GQ that I could never use. All and all the deck performed well. I managed to beat Infect 2-0 thanks to Inquisition, Path, and Engineered Explosives.
Played against GR Tron 2-0, Trading Post Tron 2-0, UG Infect 2-0, Ad Nauseum 2-0, and Skred Red 1-2 tonight. Here's my current list, I feel pretty good about it right now.
Didn't get a chance to use my Vampiric Link's against anything tonight. Was hoping to play against burn. I'll probably be putting in Timely Reinforcements in this spot. Eidolon (spelling?) is annoying but Link might not do enough against that general match up to merit playing. Either Timely or some life gain effect. I would like to test Sun Droplet again.
I do happen to think that Scribe has to be included unfortunately. His walling ability against Infect, Burn, and Zoo are too valuable to ignore. I think he might be a necessary evil if you aren't playing Soul's or something. I am choosing him over Souls since he lives through all of burns combat damage without extra burn, and he does add to the game plan. Maybe only 3 cards if no Delirium, but still progressing the game. I am trying to find a spot for a 3rd. I am concerned with using 4 Mesmeric Orb with only 3 Incursion. Milling my own stall cards can be pretty rough. I don't know if 4 Incursion is right to play or not. I didn't really play matches where it was too relevant tonight so I can't really say one way or another currently. Scribe might be able to take the place of the 4th since I can stall with blocking for a turn at least usually.
I might include a plains again in the deck. Not sure if I would be able to play it successfully with 3 GQ. Might have to go down to 2 if I do. Will need testing before hand. I am not really sure if Blood Moon is something I should be worried about going into Dallas next week.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Stony Silence, Disenchant, Engineered Explosives, Hurkyl's Recall, Timely Reinforcements, Crypt Incursion, Sun Droplet, etc. There are a plethora of cards we have against these two matches. Affinity, Infect and Fish are more troublesome than Burn though. Usually one Crypt Incursion gains so much burn can't keep up.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
This doesn't really fit the bill for a competitive Modern Mill list. Posting in the Deck Creation or Budget thread would probably be a more appropriate area for a list like this.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Someone asked me about a Dallas report and I hate to say that I didn't keep any notes from that day. I did play Infect R1, Death Zoo R2, Mono U Taking Turns R3, Jeskai Nahiri (Peter Ingram) R4, Nahiri Chord R5, Scapeshift R6, and Infect R7. I lost to Jeskai, Nahiri Chord and Infect in R7. Happy to say that the deck did what I wanted it to against the two decks I was worried about most being Infect and Death's Zoo. Engineered Explosives, Path's and IoK's helped me out tremendously in those matches. Explosives I think won me both Death's Zoo games. I played one in each of our games and it just devastated my opponent. I really lost out hard to Emrakul that day. Against Ingram I saw one Crypt Incursion in only ONE of our games and it was so late in that game that it didn't matter. I sided in some ridiculous amount of hate and didn't see anything. Variance is a cruel mistress sometimes. When I lost to Nahiri Chord it was because of more or less the same thing. I didn't see enough hate to combat emrakul, while at the same time fighting his 2 or 3 other combos present in the deck. My inability to interact had me losing to just aggro beats, and the combos. It was a brutal round, I did win one of those games though. The last round against Infect again, he Drew 3 creatures in a row and I lost flat out, haha. My first IoK took his t1 elf then he played another next turn that ate a path, then drew two blighted agents in a row in game 2. Game 1 he killed me t4, I didn't keep an opener with Path and didn't draw into it.
All in all I think I weakened myself against Emrakul and I paid for it. I did really well against the aggro decks like I was expecting and I think I might have been a bit too specific. It was a fun day though. Lots of people were complimenting the deck and were very interested in it.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Edit: X-3 drop. Lost to infect r7. Time to head back home!
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
I think people play this card expecting to go big all the time when it's not necessary. I'm more concerned with getting it before t4 than gaining loads of life. With Mesmeric Orb in play, I like knowing that there are multiples as well. I've lost games due to untimely mills on my self knowing that the probability of me seeing the next one is significantly lower after X amount hit my GY. If I was playing 2 copies of Incursion and I saw one hit the GY from an orb I'd probably die inside a little bit.
Inquisition is another card that I feel like has that kind of power that Crypt Incursion does. This may stem from my knowledge of what lists usually run, but the knowing what my opponent has in hand is word the B mana alone to me. Usually the late game is a terrible time for a player to draw hand disruption, but my thoughts on that are this.
What exactly is a "late" game for mill? We are trying to mill our opponents as fast as possible, just as burn does. Unless you stick in more actual mill, other cards can be just as dead in a late game because we're playing mill. I've experienced too many plays where an IoK has saved my life late game. Because milling our opponent is no guarantee that we will hit a specific card, when we need it, I've found it to be significantly better in mill late game than any other deck I've played it in. It's hit game ending cards late game for me too often now.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Explosives is a card that's relevant in pretty much every match. It will always hit something unless your dying to lands I suppose. I put it in the MB because I am expecting a lot of aggro in Dallas next week. I don't necessarily build my list to a stores certain Meta unless I want to try out something specific. In this case, i knew i have already had months of success playing MB Explosives in Jeskai, so it only seemed right MB in 3c mill when i need a way to slow the game state. I always try to play a 75 that I would win a GP or SCG Open. Otherwise, to me, it's a bit pointless playing if I expect my lists would perform badly at a large event and only well at FNM.
Also, Infect isn't really something that's in my meta. I saw this guy at state's a month ago or so and thats been it. He just happened to be at my store last night. Literally just a coincidence. I do appreciate your opinion on the matter though, Luke.
@Timba
The 3 GQ are necessary, imo. Since GQ can manipulate out U and B mana, 3 is fine. If you have to use one on your self, while not ideal, you will have your colors that you need to progress your game plan. Otherwise they can wreck your opponents mana combined with our milling and enable trap and makes Surgical Amazing in some matches like Tron.
I don't agree with more than 2 Shelldock Isle. 3 tapped lands is too much and the 20 cards or less in library requires it to be at the end of the game in almost every situation. I only need to see one at that stage in the game.
I usually feel the same about Inquisition, but I've found it to be nothing but value in this list. I did try out 4 IoK and 2 Thoughtseize, and that was indeed too much. IoK is a fantastic card and it's done nothing but save me in the early game on top of Path to Exile. I doubt I'll be cutting them since they've only proven their weight in gold to me.
The 4th Incursion was to test out against aggro. As I said, I'll be in Dallas and I am expecting a LOT of aggro. Burn is very prominent in the Midwest and it's extra hate for them. It's probably getting cut as I already mentioned.
Link isn't all that great. I really only like it on very specific creatures and was hoping to get testing in against burn last night. Timely would go a lot further against a wider variety of decks.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
I ended up going 4-1 tonight, losing to a bad judgment call against Skred Red and being greedy when I knew Blood Moon on t3 is very realistic. Would have won had I just played the Inquisition and taken the Moon. I got him to 11 cards with blood moon out since I had a Island and Swamp. Couldn't close out though but I was holding 2 traps and a GQ that I could never use. All and all the deck performed well. I managed to beat Infect 2-0 thanks to Inquisition, Path, and Engineered Explosives.
Played against GR Tron 2-0, Trading Post Tron 2-0, UG Infect 2-0, Ad Nauseum 2-0, and Skred Red 1-2 tonight. Here's my current list, I feel pretty good about it right now.
4 Hedron Crab
2 Manic Scribe
Inst/Sorc 27
4 Path to Exile
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
1 Breaking // Entering
4 Crypt Incursion
2 Mind Funeral
4 Archive Trap
Artifacts 4
3 Mesmeric Orb
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Shelldock Isle
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Celestial Purge
2 Vampiric Link
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Disenchant
2 Echoing Truth
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Stony Silence
Didn't get a chance to use my Vampiric Link's against anything tonight. Was hoping to play against burn. I'll probably be putting in Timely Reinforcements in this spot. Eidolon (spelling?) is annoying but Link might not do enough against that general match up to merit playing. Either Timely or some life gain effect. I would like to test Sun Droplet again.
I do happen to think that Scribe has to be included unfortunately. His walling ability against Infect, Burn, and Zoo are too valuable to ignore. I think he might be a necessary evil if you aren't playing Soul's or something. I am choosing him over Souls since he lives through all of burns combat damage without extra burn, and he does add to the game plan. Maybe only 3 cards if no Delirium, but still progressing the game. I am trying to find a spot for a 3rd. I am concerned with using 4 Mesmeric Orb with only 3 Incursion. Milling my own stall cards can be pretty rough. I don't know if 4 Incursion is right to play or not. I didn't really play matches where it was too relevant tonight so I can't really say one way or another currently. Scribe might be able to take the place of the 4th since I can stall with blocking for a turn at least usually.
I might include a plains again in the deck. Not sure if I would be able to play it successfully with 3 GQ. Might have to go down to 2 if I do. Will need testing before hand. I am not really sure if Blood Moon is something I should be worried about going into Dallas next week.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"