I totally understand how Avalanche Riders leaves a bad impression of Timewalking yourself. But in defense of the card, you ideally play it if the opponent has only one land in play. If your opponent does not play any land on his/her turn then it's fine to pay the Echo cost in my opinion.
I do not treat him as a creature foremost but just a land destruction spell. If I play him when the opponent has more than one land then that means I've run out of land destruction spells or in need of a blocker.
@VampireChild85 - Thanks for the heads up on the GDD. If I do add them they'd be a couple and I'd think hard which cards need to go.
I don't know about the lands to be honest as it seemed it hits the spot for me, I might go up to 19 and cut the Roiling Terrain if I do increase my land count. I actually told my friend that Roiling Terrain was cute but he did manage to kill an opponent with it(!). I wouldn't cut the Vines (this should have been Creeping Mold) as they've saved me a lot of times with their flexibility.
I know the BOPs are useless in essence of attacking the opponent unless you have a Kessig Wolf Run but doesn't it add to a guaranteed T2 land destruction if it is in your opening hand?
I thought of adding a Goblin Dark-Dwellers but I can't find any copy so we were stuck on the original list.
In defense of Acidic Slime I'd agree that it's just a 2/2 along with Avalanche Riders but it's usually a slow beater once it comes down, as when it usually comes down the opponent is out of lands and no creatures. The only removal spell that can remove it is Path to Exile. You can argue Lightning Bolt as well but that's on the decline. But how many one mana removal spell does an opponent have? 6-8 would be ideal if they are in Esper, Dimir, Jeskai and Boros colors and based on experience these two (Acidic Slime and Avalanche Riders) have already taken their fair share of opponent damage when they are the only creature aside from the dorks on the board. There were even times when my friend played that he is beating the opponent with the Arbor Elves. I also value its Deathtouch ability as Death's Shadow decks can play a creature for one mana and AS stops them and it can't by hit by Fatal Push.
Grove of the Burnwillows is just a borrowed strategy against Death's Shadow decks since I don't run Beast Within. I might remove because I might run Blood Moon in the side.
Here's a decklist my friend used last weekend for a PPTQ. It is unconventional and probably controversial but he almost piloted it to a Top 8 PPTQ (38 Players).
I lent him the deck to which he tweaked for his play style. His record was 3-2-1 but he could've gone 4-1-1 and possibly dominate the Top 8 and winning the tournament but due to confusion on the tournament prize structure he decided to have a concession with his last round opponent. I am part to blame as I did not brief him on the stakes and I left during round 5 as he thought after the swiss rounds that the tourney is over and the top 8 players are the winners. FYI, this is only his second Modern tournament (he rarely plays Modern as he plays Pauper) and was not familiar on how the tournament works.
We had a Draw for Round 1 as we were paired with another late competitor so I am left wondering of the possibilities had we arrived on time.
Apologies as I don't have the sideboard as he made the list on the fly. We initially talked about adding Blood Moon at the sideboard before the event but I guess he forgot and was pressured listing the deck and adjusting the sideboard.
I watched a couple of his games and I can tell that he can pilot the deck better had he had reps from it. This was the first time he used the deck by the way.
Acidic Slime - Was added because of the 2-in-1 effect without the drawback of Avalanche Riders. It was a great card against Death's Shadow due to Deathtouch.
Chandra, Pyromaster - This would have been Chandra, Torch of Defiance but due to budgetary reasons I had to settle with this.
Cinder Glade - This could've been the 4th Stompy Ground but I don't have it. I'd rather change it to a Forest as it is bad in an opening hand.
Windswept Heath - This was supposed to be 3 only and Wooded Foothills should be 4 instead.
I'm going to give this a try as we both feel the normal land destruction count on accepted Ponza lists are not enough. I'll see if I can borrow a Chandra, TOD but if not then I'll stick with the Pyromaster. The sideboard is a work in progress and there's a big chance that it will include Blood Moons.
I might go to 4 Acidic Slimes and cut the 2 Reclaiming Vines.
I like Abrade as it can hit an artifact because Affinity is slightly favored against us. If I'm able to get a set before the weekend, then the Lightning Bolts will be replaced.
I just wanted to take advantage of the land as I plan to test a list without Blood Moon. I guess it would be a good fit if you remove against the meta if you're not using Blood Moon. I plan to use 2 copies.
:-D I think that is a very rare situation though. Once you know that your opponent is on DS you can drop Grove early and use it so your opponent can gain life. This will delay DS at least.
I am tweaking my list to a heavy LD list. I am planning to delegate Blood Moon to the SB. I also plan to add Grove of the Burnwillows for the DS match up.
Thanks. Reading the thread here about Mizzium Mortars convinced me to replace Bonfire of the Damned. You always cringe when Bonfire is in your opening hand. Then you get that feeling like you have to go to the toilet but it is occupied when ramping up for it. Plus, there would be times you might miss the Miracle cost although this never happened to me.
I get the feeling when paying the Echo cost for Avalanche Riders but I do not treat him as a creature. And you can tell that as you noticed that I'm heavy on LD spells. It's a bonus if I can pay for his Echo cost but I am not worried as he costs 4 and usually gets played in the midgame. He usually gets played when the opponent has only one land left. This way, you can afford to pay the Echo cost.
I want to add another set of LD spells but I'd settle on my list for now and further evaluate what tweaks I need as I have only played it once. Goblin Dark-Dwellers gives that appeal and I might consider it along Fulminator Mage, Creeping Mold and Demolish. It has its drawback of 5cc but gives value on the recast option, has Menace, dodges Lightning Bolt and Fatal Push.
I only felt helpless when I got mana flooded against Mardu Midrange which means the deck has a decent chance of winning. Although I've yet to play against Death Shadow. That is the match up that I'm worried about. I joined the PPTQ with a metagame in mind as the top decks are greedy with their land base.
Played in a PPTQ yesterday. I have only played Ponza for 3 tournaments. I've updated my list and yesterday was the first time I played it. I finished 4-2 and placed 11th out of 38.
R1: Bant Eldrazi 2-1
Mizzium Mortars was the MVP in G1 via overload. He just played Displacer and got wiped along TKS. I cruised with a Titan for the win. I was overwhelmed in G2 by 2 Displacers. I initially thought I destroyed the wrong land when I destroyed an Eldrazi Temple vs a Plains but realized it didn't matter as he will still be able to cast the 2nd Displacer. Land destruction was consistent in G3 so he was not able to recover. Blood Moon did not see play.
R2: Suicide Zoo 1-2
I had a misplay in G1 when I could've casted Blood Moon so he wouldn't be able to use Tribal Flames for 5 to finish me off. This is a new match up to me. I was lucky in G2 that he had to go down on life and was able to cast Molten Rain and Bolt for the win. I got mana flooded in G3 and was not able to recover.
R3: DnT 2-0
Easy G1 as he mulligan to 5. He only had one land and was not able to recover as I followed it up with a Blood Moon. G2 was a bit more grindy as he was able to cast Thalia and got value from Thraben Inspector via Flickerwisp. I just ramped up thanks to Acid Moss and played Titan to kill Thalia and Leonin Arbiter. It went downhill for him from then on as there was a Blood Moon in play and I killed his remaining creatures via Titan trigger.
R4: Mardu Midrange 1-2
Perfect game for me in G1 where we attack the opponent's land base then land our threat. I have no idea how to sideboard against him. He was afraid of Blood Moon so he fetched for basics. Although a powerful strategy I didn't forego with that approach as I aimed to destroy his lands. Unfortunately, I got mana flooded. Same thing happened in G3.
R5: 8Rack 2-1
I haven't seen his deck so I was in a surprise when he landed a Swamp and cast IOK on his first turn. T2 made the confirmation as he landed another Swamp. I quickly scooped when he landed Ensnaring Bridge. I could've grinded it out as I have Bolts and Chandra but my chances of winning are slim so I've decided to proceed to the next game. I saw the constant problem of his deck in G2 where both players go to top deck mode. To be fair to him he has Bobs in his deck but he was not able to take advantage of them as it got killed the minute it hits play. Not sure if he was able to cast Bridge. G3 came down to another top deck game as he was looking for Liliana of the Veil while turtling behind 2 Bridges. I had a Titan, Avalanche Riders and a couple of Elves. The Elves were able to chip his life away as he had one card in his hand. It was a Bridge but he didn't cast until the late turns although he had lots of land in play. Maybe for fear of artifact removal but if I had artifact removal I would've casted it to destroy the initial Bridge so I can attack with my Titan. We were both anxious. I fortunately top decked an Ancient Grudge destroying his Bridges and swing for lethal.
R6 Boros Burn 2-0
Both games went the same way. Destroy his lands early then attack with my creatures.
I was satisfied with my performance as 8 land destruction effects are not enough for me and preferred with the list below. I'm still thinking of adding a 5th set of land destruction spells, either Fulminator Mages, Creeping Mold or Demolish. But that means I either drop the Blood Moons and another card or up my card count to 64. BTW, I failed to remove the Crumble to Dust hence the 61 card list. My sideboard is out of place, I had to refine it. My 4th Wooded Foothills was with my friend so I had to use a Verdant Catacombs. Lastly, I will upgrade Chandra, Pyromaster to Chandra, Torch of Defiance once I have the budget.
It's fine as I'll have more time to complete my missing pieces and there's a saving grace as there is a Modern event tomorrow.
I do not treat him as a creature foremost but just a land destruction spell. If I play him when the opponent has more than one land then that means I've run out of land destruction spells or in need of a blocker.
@VampireChild85 - Thanks for the heads up on the GDD. If I do add them they'd be a couple and I'd think hard which cards need to go.
I don't know about the lands to be honest as it seemed it hits the spot for me, I might go up to 19 and cut the Roiling Terrain if I do increase my land count. I actually told my friend that Roiling Terrain was cute but he did manage to kill an opponent with it(!). I wouldn't cut the Vines (this should have been Creeping Mold) as they've saved me a lot of times with their flexibility.
I know the BOPs are useless in essence of attacking the opponent unless you have a Kessig Wolf Run but doesn't it add to a guaranteed T2 land destruction if it is in your opening hand?
I thought of adding a Goblin Dark-Dwellers but I can't find any copy so we were stuck on the original list.
In defense of Acidic Slime I'd agree that it's just a 2/2 along with Avalanche Riders but it's usually a slow beater once it comes down, as when it usually comes down the opponent is out of lands and no creatures. The only removal spell that can remove it is Path to Exile. You can argue Lightning Bolt as well but that's on the decline. But how many one mana removal spell does an opponent have? 6-8 would be ideal if they are in Esper, Dimir, Jeskai and Boros colors and based on experience these two (Acidic Slime and Avalanche Riders) have already taken their fair share of opponent damage when they are the only creature aside from the dorks on the board. There were even times when my friend played that he is beating the opponent with the Arbor Elves. I also value its Deathtouch ability as Death's Shadow decks can play a creature for one mana and AS stops them and it can't by hit by Fatal Push.
Grove of the Burnwillows is just a borrowed strategy against Death's Shadow decks since I don't run Beast Within. I might remove because I might run Blood Moon in the side.
I lent him the deck to which he tweaked for his play style. His record was 3-2-1 but he could've gone 4-1-1 and possibly dominate the Top 8 and winning the tournament but due to confusion on the tournament prize structure he decided to have a concession with his last round opponent. I am part to blame as I did not brief him on the stakes and I left during round 5 as he thought after the swiss rounds that the tourney is over and the top 8 players are the winners. FYI, this is only his second Modern tournament (he rarely plays Modern as he plays Pauper) and was not familiar on how the tournament works.
We had a Draw for Round 1 as we were paired with another late competitor so I am left wondering of the possibilities had we arrived on time.
This was the decklist:
2x Acidic Slime
4x Arbor Elf
4x Avalanche Riders
2x Birds of Paradise
2x Inferno Titan
Enchantments (4)
4x Utopia Sprawl
Instants (4)
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Crumble to Dust
3x Mizzium Mortars
4x Molten Rain
4x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
2x Reclaiming Vines
1x Roiling Terrain
4x Stone Rain
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
Lands
1x Cinder Glade
4x Forest
1x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Mountain
3x Stomping Ground
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
Apologies as I don't have the sideboard as he made the list on the fly. We initially talked about adding Blood Moon at the sideboard before the event but I guess he forgot and was pressured listing the deck and adjusting the sideboard.
I watched a couple of his games and I can tell that he can pilot the deck better had he had reps from it. This was the first time he used the deck by the way.
Acidic Slime - Was added because of the 2-in-1 effect without the drawback of Avalanche Riders. It was a great card against Death's Shadow due to Deathtouch.
Chandra, Pyromaster - This would have been Chandra, Torch of Defiance but due to budgetary reasons I had to settle with this.
Cinder Glade - This could've been the 4th Stompy Ground but I don't have it. I'd rather change it to a Forest as it is bad in an opening hand.
Windswept Heath - This was supposed to be 3 only and Wooded Foothills should be 4 instead.
I plan to play this weekend with an updated list:
2x Acidic Slime
4x Arbor Elf
4x Avalanche Riders
2x Birds of Paradise
2x Inferno Titan
Enchantments (4)
4x Utopia Sprawl
Instants (4)
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Crumble to Dust
3x Mizzium Mortars
4x Molten Rain
4x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
2x Reclaiming Vines
1x Roiling Terrain
4x Stone Rain
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Lands (18)
5x Forest
1x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Mountain
3x Stomping Ground
3x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
I'm going to give this a try as we both feel the normal land destruction count on accepted Ponza lists are not enough. I'll see if I can borrow a Chandra, TOD but if not then I'll stick with the Pyromaster. The sideboard is a work in progress and there's a big chance that it will include Blood Moons.
I might go to 4 Acidic Slimes and cut the 2 Reclaiming Vines.
I like Abrade as it can hit an artifact because Affinity is slightly favored against us. If I'm able to get a set before the weekend, then the Lightning Bolts will be replaced.
I get the feeling when paying the Echo cost for Avalanche Riders but I do not treat him as a creature. And you can tell that as you noticed that I'm heavy on LD spells. It's a bonus if I can pay for his Echo cost but I am not worried as he costs 4 and usually gets played in the midgame. He usually gets played when the opponent has only one land left. This way, you can afford to pay the Echo cost.
I want to add another set of LD spells but I'd settle on my list for now and further evaluate what tweaks I need as I have only played it once. Goblin Dark-Dwellers gives that appeal and I might consider it along Fulminator Mage, Creeping Mold and Demolish. It has its drawback of 5cc but gives value on the recast option, has Menace, dodges Lightning Bolt and Fatal Push.
I only felt helpless when I got mana flooded against Mardu Midrange which means the deck has a decent chance of winning. Although I've yet to play against Death Shadow. That is the match up that I'm worried about. I joined the PPTQ with a metagame in mind as the top decks are greedy with their land base.
R1: Bant Eldrazi 2-1
Mizzium Mortars was the MVP in G1 via overload. He just played Displacer and got wiped along TKS. I cruised with a Titan for the win. I was overwhelmed in G2 by 2 Displacers. I initially thought I destroyed the wrong land when I destroyed an Eldrazi Temple vs a Plains but realized it didn't matter as he will still be able to cast the 2nd Displacer. Land destruction was consistent in G3 so he was not able to recover. Blood Moon did not see play.
R2: Suicide Zoo 1-2
I had a misplay in G1 when I could've casted Blood Moon so he wouldn't be able to use Tribal Flames for 5 to finish me off. This is a new match up to me. I was lucky in G2 that he had to go down on life and was able to cast Molten Rain and Bolt for the win. I got mana flooded in G3 and was not able to recover.
R3: DnT 2-0
Easy G1 as he mulligan to 5. He only had one land and was not able to recover as I followed it up with a Blood Moon. G2 was a bit more grindy as he was able to cast Thalia and got value from Thraben Inspector via Flickerwisp. I just ramped up thanks to Acid Moss and played Titan to kill Thalia and Leonin Arbiter. It went downhill for him from then on as there was a Blood Moon in play and I killed his remaining creatures via Titan trigger.
R4: Mardu Midrange 1-2
Perfect game for me in G1 where we attack the opponent's land base then land our threat. I have no idea how to sideboard against him. He was afraid of Blood Moon so he fetched for basics. Although a powerful strategy I didn't forego with that approach as I aimed to destroy his lands. Unfortunately, I got mana flooded. Same thing happened in G3.
R5: 8Rack 2-1
I haven't seen his deck so I was in a surprise when he landed a Swamp and cast IOK on his first turn. T2 made the confirmation as he landed another Swamp. I quickly scooped when he landed Ensnaring Bridge. I could've grinded it out as I have Bolts and Chandra but my chances of winning are slim so I've decided to proceed to the next game. I saw the constant problem of his deck in G2 where both players go to top deck mode. To be fair to him he has Bobs in his deck but he was not able to take advantage of them as it got killed the minute it hits play. Not sure if he was able to cast Bridge. G3 came down to another top deck game as he was looking for Liliana of the Veil while turtling behind 2 Bridges. I had a Titan, Avalanche Riders and a couple of Elves. The Elves were able to chip his life away as he had one card in his hand. It was a Bridge but he didn't cast until the late turns although he had lots of land in play. Maybe for fear of artifact removal but if I had artifact removal I would've casted it to destroy the initial Bridge so I can attack with my Titan. We were both anxious. I fortunately top decked an Ancient Grudge destroying his Bridges and swing for lethal.
R6 Boros Burn 2-0
Both games went the same way. Destroy his lands early then attack with my creatures.
I was satisfied with my performance as 8 land destruction effects are not enough for me and preferred with the list below. I'm still thinking of adding a 5th set of land destruction spells, either Fulminator Mages, Creeping Mold or Demolish. But that means I either drop the Blood Moons and another card or up my card count to 64. BTW, I failed to remove the Crumble to Dust hence the 61 card list. My sideboard is out of place, I had to refine it. My 4th Wooded Foothills was with my friend so I had to use a Verdant Catacombs. Lastly, I will upgrade Chandra, Pyromaster to Chandra, Torch of Defiance once I have the budget.
1x Cinder Glade
6x Forest
1x Mountain
4x Stomping Ground
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
Creatures - 13
4x Arbor Elf
4x Avalanche Riders
2x Birds of Paradise
3x Inferno Titan
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
Enchantments - 7
3x Blood Moon
4x Utopia Sprawl
Instant - 4
4x Lightning Bolt
Soreries - 16
1x Crumble to Dust
3x Mizzium Mortars
4x Molten Rain
4x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4x Stone Rain
2x Obstinate Baloth
2x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Thragtusk
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Nature's Claim
2x Sudden Shock
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Creeping Corrosion