You seem to be running 3 of's everything, instead of 4 of's of the most important things, why is that? Does the consistency of the deck start to go down because of it? I'd assume that with only 3 Faithless Lootings you wouldn't be hitting one on turn 1 as often, and with no Blackcleave Cliffs your manabase will be a bit more painful than it should be.
Other than that I'd suggest going down to 1 Flame Jab in the main, and moving in the Darkblasts. This would free up some sideboard slots for anger if you really need it. Also move a Scavenging Ooze to the main for a Pack Rat because they are both late game mana sinks, but the Ooze can blow put games right away while the rat takes time to set up. I also noticed that you have no manlands, how has that been working?
I have been moving away from 4 lootings recently, I think that turn 1 your best play is discard 90% of the time, I prefer the extra thoughtseize/IoK to the 4th looting.
On Pack Rat, I think that Pack rat has become quite good against all the BGx decks that are becoming popular again. Their only out is maelstrom pulse and we can usually make pack rat lethal quickly. So long as we hold up the mana to make another pack rat is basically unkillable against most decks, the only wrath that really hurts ATM is anger of the gods and we're really good against most decks that play anger of the gods. I deffinetly support some number (one or two) of maindeck packrat in straight jund builds.
Also, I was just curious how many people are playing the Creatureless/Pyromancer versions of the deck because they feel it's the superior version or because of budget concerns related to Tarmogoyf/Bob/Liliana. By no means is this to imply decks with those money cards are better. I just want to get an idea of where people are coming from.
I actually own a jund deck and my first iteration of assault loam was just squeezing 4 loam, 3 Raven's crime and 3 assualt into a jund shell. The thing that steered me away from the goyf + bob shell was that every tier 1 deck had some way of dealing with jund's typical threats, admittedly this was pre DRS banning but I imagine it's still true. I also struggled with life loss, bob deals a lot of damage and to get maximum value out of the loam package you're usually best off fetching every turn which ends up draining quite a lot of life, it wasn't uncommon to find myself dead to a top-decked lightning bolt. I think the cost barrier stops most people experimenting with the deck, which is why there's little interest in it.
Inspired by this list, which finished in the top 8 of a recent premier event, I've been trying a Knight of the Reliquary 4c loam list. Admittedly, this stretches the mana base really far, and probably makes the deck too inconsistent, it's still been pretty fun to play.
Knight lets me run a little toolbox and frees up a few slots both in the maindeck and the sideboard. The only graveyard hate in the entire 75 is a single copy of bojuka bog, the only land hate is a maindeck tec edge and a pair of ghost quarters in the side. So far I haven't been left wanting anything more, being able to tec edge your own bog to recur it is actually quite powerful against really graveyard dependent decks. I could see running some number of utility lands, particularly township, Wolf Run or Vault but this deck thrives in stalled board state, I don't think they're needed.
It's also nice being able to out-class just about every creature in modern, I have blocked an emrakul with a surprise 16/16 knight which is probably the coolest play I have ever made. Knight is usually at least 6/6 by turn 5 and gives our opponent a must answer threat without really requiring any setup.
I have found that affinity and infect are very weak to our massive removal suite. Jund can't keep up with the amount of card advantage that we have access to. I have had mostly trouble with hatebears, twin and ad nauseum. Other than those 3 match ups I have had very much success with the deck.
I haven't had any problems with either hatebears or ad anuseum, we can beat hatebears at the value game and their mana denial plans dont work so well against an active loam. Admittedly thalia does slow us down a little but she doesnt really disrupt our main gameplan. Ad Naus is tough G1 but abrupt decay and raven's crime go a long way, post sideboard we get to run mana denial along with plenty of discard and artifact hate and they genuinely have a hard time wining though all the disruption, Generally their only g2/3 wins come from insane topdecks + lotus bloom. Twni is a bit weird, sometimes I feel like I can't drop a game and they just lose to so much of our deck, othertimes I just either lose to the combo or the tempo plan, I don't really know what to think about it.
I played several games yesterday pre-sideboard (bobbth's list) against an RG zoo deck. It didn't feel like a very fun matchup for the deck. What would you sideboard in for that matchup? I got trounced pretty heavily. I had to throw away so many cards just to try and deal with all the three toughness creatures. obviously anger comes in, what else? and what comes out.
Yeah, small zoo is quite a bad matchup, it can be terrible to unwinnable for my version of the deck. The smallpox versions fare better but not by a lot. Our discard sucks and they can often play threats more quickly then we can set up chump blockers. The only games I've won have involved an active seismic assault. If small zoo is a big part of your meta don't be afraid to sideboard up to 4 anger of the gods.
Big Zoo is much better matchup, they are usually slow enough that we have plenty of time to get an assault/lily/pyromancer online and they don't often get us down far enough that they can burn us out.
Here's how I would side:
+1 Thragtusk
+2 Huntmaster of the Fells
+2 Anger of the Gods
+2 Maelstrom pulse
- 4 Bloodghast
- 2 Raven's Crime
- 1 Horizion Canopy
My sideboard really doesn't have much to bring in for the small zoo matchup, it's not too common of a deck especially in my local paper meta.
Bobbth. Can I inquire as to the lack of in your list? Did you test them and decide they just weren't doing enough? Your list seems really light on burn spells entirely. Have you had any trouble with more aggressive creature matchups like affinity merfolk twin, etc?
Yeah, I tested with bolts briefly, I can't really comment on it much other than when I did test them, they were inplace of abrupt decay and I sorely missed abrupt decay.
The deck naturally has a mediocre-to-okay aggro matchup and having more removal could certainly help but I'm not sure whether is worth making room for. Having a huge supply of 1/1's to block with really makes the matchup winnable and the bolts don't really help with that plan. I could certainly be wrong though.
Other than that i Agree, i myself play pyro + souls and creature matchups are fine without bolts. I still play smallpox though, i'm not 100% sold on bloodghasts, because i'm not conviced the deck needs more win conditions. At least tokens can chump/group block to trade with stuff, ghast is purely made for offense.
EDIT: this is one thing i like about the deck, our wins are flexible, assault can be creature control when you need it and later on it can win the game fast. Same with tokens they can block until you stabilize and win you the game. Ghasts seem to lack that flexibility. Take this with a grain of salt because i never played with ghasts in this deck, if they work for you then thats good.
Also is 2 assaults enough? I mean i'd love to cut one for more sweet stuff like a lily but i'm scared i might not draw it when i need it most.
Yeah, the deck is truly unique, it can really adopt any role and gets so much value out of each of it's pieces. Ghasts can be lackluster in some matches and do get boarded out semi-regularly but I can't seem to find anything else to fill that kind of role. The deck need someway to close out games when we cant stick a pyromancer and a pair of souls aren't enough, ghasts do fill that role to some extent, I'll agree that they feel clunky and sometimes they suck but they're the best at what they do. We just need wizards to print a kitchen finks with flashback.
I cut the 3rd assault last minute, it came down to the 2nd lily or the 3rd assault and at that point the lily was over-performing. I haven't really missed it yet but I haven't really played many games since cutting it. I guess it's probably wrong to run only 2.
I'm considering 4 Raven's Crime too. It's so good that I think it should be called a core card. I'm never unhappy to see it in multiples, especially in turns 1-3. We operate brilliantly without hands; our opponents generally do not. So 1-for-1s are swell when we want to enter topdeck mode.
Tymaret is indeed a cute looking card. I just happen to have one in the binder..
My only problem with raven's crime is they're really bad once we get our opponent down to 0 cards, anything they topdeck they will play on the spot or is probably irrelevant (this deck really doesn't care about counterspells/removal). Raven's crime is fine if we're seriously hampering out opponents gameplan (i.e. storm, UWR, twin) but it's really lackluster when we're likely dead to their t2/t3 plays (i.e. Affinity, zoo, infect ) or they just have lots of really strong top-decks (i.e jund, hatebears, to a lesser extent pod)
I've been toying around with a jund loam list for the past few weeks and I've finally gotten it to the point where I feel it's solid, at the last local event I went 3-0-1 with it, drawing to UW tron (1-1) and beating jund (1-0), cryptic zoo (2-0) and storm (2-1).
Here's what I've settled on:
I originally started running 4 smallpox in place of the bloodghast's but I found myself not being able to close out games where I had an active loam but couldn't find/stick a seismic assault . I really like the inevitability and mid game pressure the ghasts give the deck but I'm not 100% sure on them, it's possible they could be goyfs, bobs or even just the pox's but I'm happy with them for the time being.
Thus far tymaret has performed really well, he seems super janky but it gives another angle to grind opponents out and serves as an excellent recurable chump blocker, he generates so much value in creature matchups and represents a good clock when attacking won't end the game (he also recurs through grafdigger's cage, which was a nice surprise). Having said that, I really don't think you want more than one maindeck and even then he isn't stellar without bodies to sac.
The huntmaster + thragtusk side are for fighting through grave hate and give the deck better live topdecks in attrition matchups, so far they have proved useful but the sideboard needs tweaking, there are a lot of times when I don't have enough cards to bring in particularly when discards sucks.
I have been moving away from 4 lootings recently, I think that turn 1 your best play is discard 90% of the time, I prefer the extra thoughtseize/IoK to the 4th looting.
On Pack Rat, I think that Pack rat has become quite good against all the BGx decks that are becoming popular again. Their only out is maelstrom pulse and we can usually make pack rat lethal quickly. So long as we hold up the mana to make another pack rat is basically unkillable against most decks, the only wrath that really hurts ATM is anger of the gods and we're really good against most decks that play anger of the gods. I deffinetly support some number (one or two) of maindeck packrat in straight jund builds.
Haha, I hope you break the 4-color delver-leak-zoo archetype!
I actually own a jund deck and my first iteration of assault loam was just squeezing 4 loam, 3 Raven's crime and 3 assualt into a jund shell. The thing that steered me away from the goyf + bob shell was that every tier 1 deck had some way of dealing with jund's typical threats, admittedly this was pre DRS banning but I imagine it's still true. I also struggled with life loss, bob deals a lot of damage and to get maximum value out of the loam package you're usually best off fetching every turn which ends up draining quite a lot of life, it wasn't uncommon to find myself dead to a top-decked lightning bolt. I think the cost barrier stops most people experimenting with the deck, which is why there's little interest in it.
Inspired by this list, which finished in the top 8 of a recent premier event, I've been trying a Knight of the Reliquary 4c loam list. Admittedly, this stretches the mana base really far, and probably makes the deck too inconsistent, it's still been pretty fun to play.
Knight lets me run a little toolbox and frees up a few slots both in the maindeck and the sideboard. The only graveyard hate in the entire 75 is a single copy of bojuka bog, the only land hate is a maindeck tec edge and a pair of ghost quarters in the side. So far I haven't been left wanting anything more, being able to tec edge your own bog to recur it is actually quite powerful against really graveyard dependent decks. I could see running some number of utility lands, particularly township, Wolf Run or Vault but this deck thrives in stalled board state, I don't think they're needed.
It's also nice being able to out-class just about every creature in modern, I have blocked an emrakul with a surprise 16/16 knight which is probably the coolest play I have ever made. Knight is usually at least 6/6 by turn 5 and gives our opponent a must answer threat without really requiring any setup.
Here's what I've been playing:
I haven't had any problems with either hatebears or ad anuseum, we can beat hatebears at the value game and their mana denial plans dont work so well against an active loam. Admittedly thalia does slow us down a little but she doesnt really disrupt our main gameplan. Ad Naus is tough G1 but abrupt decay and raven's crime go a long way, post sideboard we get to run mana denial along with plenty of discard and artifact hate and they genuinely have a hard time wining though all the disruption, Generally their only g2/3 wins come from insane topdecks + lotus bloom. Twni is a bit weird, sometimes I feel like I can't drop a game and they just lose to so much of our deck, othertimes I just either lose to the combo or the tempo plan, I don't really know what to think about it.
Yeah, small zoo is quite a bad matchup, it can be terrible to unwinnable for my version of the deck. The smallpox versions fare better but not by a lot. Our discard sucks and they can often play threats more quickly then we can set up chump blockers. The only games I've won have involved an active seismic assault. If small zoo is a big part of your meta don't be afraid to sideboard up to 4 anger of the gods.
Big Zoo is much better matchup, they are usually slow enough that we have plenty of time to get an assault/lily/pyromancer online and they don't often get us down far enough that they can burn us out.
Here's how I would side:
+1 Thragtusk
+2 Huntmaster of the Fells
+2 Anger of the Gods
+2 Maelstrom pulse
- 4 Bloodghast
- 2 Raven's Crime
- 1 Horizion Canopy
My sideboard really doesn't have much to bring in for the small zoo matchup, it's not too common of a deck especially in my local paper meta.
Yeah, I tested with bolts briefly, I can't really comment on it much other than when I did test them, they were inplace of abrupt decay and I sorely missed abrupt decay.
The deck naturally has a mediocre-to-okay aggro matchup and having more removal could certainly help but I'm not sure whether is worth making room for. Having a huge supply of 1/1's to block with really makes the matchup winnable and the bolts don't really help with that plan. I could certainly be wrong though.
Yeah, the deck is truly unique, it can really adopt any role and gets so much value out of each of it's pieces. Ghasts can be lackluster in some matches and do get boarded out semi-regularly but I can't seem to find anything else to fill that kind of role. The deck need someway to close out games when we cant stick a pyromancer and a pair of souls aren't enough, ghasts do fill that role to some extent, I'll agree that they feel clunky and sometimes they suck but they're the best at what they do. We just need wizards to print a kitchen finks with flashback.
I cut the 3rd assault last minute, it came down to the 2nd lily or the 3rd assault and at that point the lily was over-performing. I haven't really missed it yet but I haven't really played many games since cutting it. I guess it's probably wrong to run only 2.
My only problem with raven's crime is they're really bad once we get our opponent down to 0 cards, anything they topdeck they will play on the spot or is probably irrelevant (this deck really doesn't care about counterspells/removal). Raven's crime is fine if we're seriously hampering out opponents gameplan (i.e. storm, UWR, twin) but it's really lackluster when we're likely dead to their t2/t3 plays (i.e. Affinity, zoo, infect ) or they just have lots of really strong top-decks (i.e jund, hatebears, to a lesser extent pod)
Here's what I've settled on:
I originally started running 4 smallpox in place of the bloodghast's but I found myself not being able to close out games where I had an active loam but couldn't find/stick a seismic assault . I really like the inevitability and mid game pressure the ghasts give the deck but I'm not 100% sure on them, it's possible they could be goyfs, bobs or even just the pox's but I'm happy with them for the time being.
Thus far tymaret has performed really well, he seems super janky but it gives another angle to grind opponents out and serves as an excellent recurable chump blocker, he generates so much value in creature matchups and represents a good clock when attacking won't end the game (he also recurs through grafdigger's cage, which was a nice surprise). Having said that, I really don't think you want more than one maindeck and even then he isn't stellar without bodies to sac.
The huntmaster + thragtusk side are for fighting through grave hate and give the deck better live topdecks in attrition matchups, so far they have proved useful but the sideboard needs tweaking, there are a lot of times when I don't have enough cards to bring in particularly when discards sucks.