If you want to make it Aggro-loam, then go with 4 Birds of Paradise, 4 Countryside Crusher, 4 Knight of the Reliquary, 4 Qasali Pridemage, 4 Tarmogoyf and 4 Lightning Bolt + Assault & Loam. Then you've got a fast clock.
Hey, yeah, thanks for the tip. I have since done some reading up on this archetype and have come to the same conclusion. It seems that there are two basic variants of Assault Loam - one is a WRG aggro strategy like the one you outlined (KotR, etc.) and the other is a BRG control strategy like the one outlined in this thread (and primer). I'd like to stick with the BRG control strategy for now because I'm not really a fan of the aggro decks.
But I should also point out that what you're saying is not entirely true. Because Bronson Magnon's GP list is actually somewhere between the control and the aggro strategies (actually it leans much closer towards control in BRG) but this list still runs Countryside Crusher. So, I guess not every Loam deck running Countryside Crusher wants to completely switch over to the aggro-beatdown route.
Anywho, for the moment, I agree with you and I'm not running Countryside Crusher in my BRG list because I prefer to play control.
LedZeppelin -- Congratulations on your top8 performance. Your list looks good but the changes you have in mind sound even better. I think noxious revival is a great way to go. Do post your updated deck list once you decide on your changes and stuff.
I've recently included 3x Noxious Revival in this deck and it's been working out really well for me. I think it's better than Eternal Witness in this deck. Any thoughts?
Also, I've been reading a little about the Legacy version of this deck and I discovered that Chalice of the Void is a staple card of this deck (always 4x Maindeck). Why isn't this card used in Modern versions of the deck? Do you think it could be useful?
Scenario #4 depends on the board state, normally you will just want to wreck their hand and board with Jabs and Crimes instead of trying to find Assault.
Of course. The way I see it, one has to play this deck in two stages. The first stage consists of board control; in this stage you have to try to discard your opponent's hand and / or kill his creatures. For this you need Raven's Crime and Flame Jab or Seismic Assault.
However, once you have things under control and it's time to draw the Seismic Assault ftw... that's the stage at which my question comes up: dredge or draw?
Ok, I promise you that I read through the other thread entirely and I couldn't find the answer to the questions that I'm asking. At any rate, that other thread has now been closed, so I think this is now the place to ask and get these questions answered.
One thing that's been bugging me recently: how do you know when to dredge vs. when to draw? Here's what I've been doing:
1. If I don't have Loam in my grave, I draw obviously!
2. If I have Seismic Assault in my hand or on the board I always dredge.
3. If I have Eternal Witness in my hand and I'm still looking for Seismic Assault, then I dredge.
4. If I don't have Eternal Witness or Seismic Assault in my hand then, only under these circumstances, I will draw rather than dredge.
Is this an appropriate way to play the deck?
My justification for #3 is that if I'm searching for Seismic Assault then dredging is a faster way to search than drawing because I open three cards per turn rather than one.
Also, another thing I'm wondering is if there is any way to return Seismic Assault to your hand from the graveyard (like Eternal Witness). That way, once you have Loam in the grave, you can just keep dredging till you find Assault.
One thing that's been bugging me recently: how do you know when to dredge vs. when to draw? Here's what I've been doing:
1. If I don't have Loam in my grave, I draw obviously!
2. If I have Seismic Assault in my hand or on the board I always dredge.
3. If I have Eternal Witness in my hand and I'm still looking for Seismic Assault, then I dredge.
4. If I don't have Eternal Witness or Seismic Assault in my hand then, only under these circumstances, I will draw rather than dredge.
Is this an appropriate way to play the deck?
My justification for #3 is that if I'm searching for Seismic Assault then dredging is a faster way to search than drawing because I open three cards per turn rather than one.
What is this deck supposed to do against graveyard hate? I can't see any strategies. Any ideas?
It looks like this deck just has to fold to the black leyline.
That is the already started thread for this topic. It wasn't exactly hard to find.
I actually saw that thread. I saw the first page and concluded that it was a thread that should have been archived due to the decklists being outdated by bannings. Didn't notice that the discussion was still active, thanks for pointing it out.
FL is exactly the card you WANT in this deck. LSV even talks about it in his video; Countryside Crusher doesn't really do anything except be a different win condition that is typically irrelevant most of the time; What this deck wants to do is Shock the opponent to the face with 6 lands and a loam in hand.
With Faithless Looting you can pitch land, LftL, Raven's Crime, and Flame Jab into the yard; that creates zero Card Disadvantage on your part and the itself can really be read as, "Draw 2 and set up your Graveyard".
If you want an 'aggro' style deck; you should replace black with white, imo; Then you'd have CCC, BBE, Goyf, KOTR, and like Noble Hierarch? And then simply have LftL/Flame Jab/Assault as your support. But the black version really is just worried with neutralizing the opponent until you can blow them up for 12-20 in one turn for game.
So, what you're calling the black version is essentially a combo deck? I'm currently messing around with LSV's deck on Cockatrice and I can't decide whether it should be played as a combo deck or as something else.
One question I have is about the role of Faithless Looting in this deck. Is it really worth the card disadvantage? I'm not sure if this deck should be played in such combo style. Perhaps replacing that card with Countryside Crusher would give this deck a much needed push towards the aggro direction. Thoughts?
Hey, yeah, thanks for the tip. I have since done some reading up on this archetype and have come to the same conclusion. It seems that there are two basic variants of Assault Loam - one is a WRG aggro strategy like the one you outlined (KotR, etc.) and the other is a BRG control strategy like the one outlined in this thread (and primer). I'd like to stick with the BRG control strategy for now because I'm not really a fan of the aggro decks.
But I should also point out that what you're saying is not entirely true. Because Bronson Magnon's GP list is actually somewhere between the control and the aggro strategies (actually it leans much closer towards control in BRG) but this list still runs Countryside Crusher. So, I guess not every Loam deck running Countryside Crusher wants to completely switch over to the aggro-beatdown route.
Anywho, for the moment, I agree with you and I'm not running Countryside Crusher in my BRG list because I prefer to play control.
BRG Loam Control (Assault - Loam) BRG
W Mono White Control (Martyr - Proc) W
Here's the build I'm currently playing:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
3 Seismic Assault
3 Noxious Revival
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Flame Jab
3 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Worm Harvest
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Obstinate Baloth
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Nature's Claim
Also, I was watching Standard Spike on MTGO Academy and saw a modern tourney in which he went 4-0 with the following list:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodghast
2 Flame Jab
4 Ravens Crime
4 Life from the Loam
4 Faithless Looting
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Smallpox
3 Seismic Assault
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Blood Crypt
2 Graven Cairns
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Raging Ravine
1 Twilight Mire
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Combust
1 Flame Jab
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Thoughtseize
BRG Loam Control (Assault - Loam) BRG
W Mono White Control (Martyr - Proc) W
Also, I've been reading a little about the Legacy version of this deck and I discovered that Chalice of the Void is a staple card of this deck (always 4x Maindeck). Why isn't this card used in Modern versions of the deck? Do you think it could be useful?
BRG Loam Control (Assault - Loam) BRG
W Mono White Control (Martyr - Proc) W
Of course. The way I see it, one has to play this deck in two stages. The first stage consists of board control; in this stage you have to try to discard your opponent's hand and / or kill his creatures. For this you need Raven's Crime and Flame Jab or Seismic Assault.
However, once you have things under control and it's time to draw the Seismic Assault ftw... that's the stage at which my question comes up: dredge or draw?
BRG Loam Control (Assault - Loam) BRG
W Mono White Control (Martyr - Proc) W
Ok, I promise you that I read through the other thread entirely and I couldn't find the answer to the questions that I'm asking. At any rate, that other thread has now been closed, so I think this is now the place to ask and get these questions answered.
Also, another thing I'm wondering is if there is any way to return Seismic Assault to your hand from the graveyard (like Eternal Witness). That way, once you have Loam in the grave, you can just keep dredging till you find Assault.
BRG Loam Control (Assault - Loam) BRG
W Mono White Control (Martyr - Proc) W
One thing that's been bugging me recently: how do you know when to dredge vs. when to draw? Here's what I've been doing:
1. If I don't have Loam in my grave, I draw obviously!
2. If I have Seismic Assault in my hand or on the board I always dredge.
3. If I have Eternal Witness in my hand and I'm still looking for Seismic Assault, then I dredge.
4. If I don't have Eternal Witness or Seismic Assault in my hand then, only under these circumstances, I will draw rather than dredge.
Is this an appropriate way to play the deck?
My justification for #3 is that if I'm searching for Seismic Assault then dredging is a faster way to search than drawing because I open three cards per turn rather than one.
BRG Loam Control (Assault - Loam) BRG
W Mono White Control (Martyr - Proc) W
It looks like this deck just has to fold to the black leyline.
I actually saw that thread. I saw the first page and concluded that it was a thread that should have been archived due to the decklists being outdated by bannings. Didn't notice that the discussion was still active, thanks for pointing it out.
BRG Loam Control (Assault - Loam) BRG
W Mono White Control (Martyr - Proc) W
So, what you're calling the black version is essentially a combo deck? I'm currently messing around with LSV's deck on Cockatrice and I can't decide whether it should be played as a combo deck or as something else.
BRG Loam Control (Assault - Loam) BRG
W Mono White Control (Martyr - Proc) W
BRG Loam Control (Assault - Loam) BRG
W Mono White Control (Martyr - Proc) W