I think the specific changes you make are meta dependent. I tend to see a lot of aggro, so 2 electrolyze and 4 helix are more than welcome. Thinking of doing some testing with geist out the sideboard as another win con. This is just because I usually have to wait till very late game to drop batterskull/thundermaw, and geist is just as much of a clock, more resilient at that point of the game when I'm in total control, and costs that much less so leaving up counters/cryptic when dropping him is very reasonable.
Can you both post your lists? Honestly the only times I wish I had Geist was vs some combo where I wanted to put on pressure a little earlier. But that being said vs combo the matchup is pretty good, I'm running a 2/2 cryptic counter flux split and absolutely loving it. Might even swap out the 4th leak for a 3rd counter flux. With combo running around so much it made storm go from really hard to an easy win.
so I played with a full control list today, I like it, much more of a different deck and strategy than I thought, most wins through snapcaster beat down actually. The pure control version is certainly way more stressing to play. Has anyone thought of a hybrid control/temp list with like 1-2 giest, 1 resto, snaps, more counters and maybe even a 1 of sphinx revelation?
You make a great point. Even still though its not only that I side it out, its that I wish I had sweepers in place of him. Granted he is an awesome threat, but I think in the current meta its just hard to play the temp game, particularly with the threat of twin turn 3/4. Trust me, he is probably one of my top 3 favorite cards in all of magic so this decision wasn't easy, and he will never be traded away. Who knows maybe one day he will make it back in?
#1: Vs black white?? (played with Hypnotic spectre, vampire nighthawk)
All creatures were 3 or less toughness, landed turn 3 geist both games. Total blowout didn't sideboard at all.
2-0
#2: Vs what he called "Rainbow Rage" 5 color with loxodon smiter, Burning Tree, Judge's Familiar, Boros Charm
Did a good job of keeping his board clear, 1 for 1. Then he started drawing into the loxodon smiters, had a giest on board with Eigango Castle took care of some of the Burning Trees, but he drew all 4 Smiters, was trading colonnades, saw no paths, G1.
Sideboard out giest, snare, and electrolyze, in wrath, anger, explosives, supreme, batterskull, wear/tear from some crazy enchantment that nulled my helixes G1.
open with 2 lands, supreme, wrath, batterskull, path, wear/tear, Awesome!
Never saw a 3rd land. GG
0-2
#3: Vs Splinter moon?
Good hand, no counters, path, plenty of removal. Easy keep vs twin. He lands a turn 3 blood moon, I have no response. G1
Game 2, in 2 counterflux, wear/tear, 2 runed halo, out 3 geist, 2 electrolyze.
open with crypic, leak, counterflux, snap, lands. Awesome
Playing the counter war all game draw go, he keeps trying to bate counters out of me with snap & Deceiver. I leak + snap a bunch of times, block his snaps with mine, always holding crypic and flux mana open. Draw into geist with 8 mana on board, play giest holding cryptic and flux, he has deceiver on board, he plays twin holding 3 mana open I think for bloodmoon, I choose to counter twin bounce his land instead of just countering with flux, he remands G2. Horrible miss play on my part, Always use the counterflux!
0-2
#4 Vs Mono Blue mill.
Basic race both games, sided in batterskull, on total aggro plan, she has a hard time racing geist, but its close.
2-0
Overall, a 2-2 split isnt horrible.... but I feel the 2 matches I won were total gimmies, which is a bit disappointing. I think that geist isnt great as he seemed to be a go to card to side out, although when he did work, boy did he work. Also thinking that the way I have the deck, which is slightly budget without Arid Mesa and Clique suffers a lot. Really hard to play around bloodmoon as I cant fetch all my basics, worse as I cant clique to get some info and disrupt combo.
I love this deck to death just for how dynamic it can play and take so many different roles, but for what Tarns are going for now I'm leaning towards dumping them for a big chunk of change, finishing off merfolk and coming back the UWr way when fetches are reprinted.
Thoughts?
EDIT: Going to try out the pure control version, out the geists, resto's, in with the verdicts, counterflux, anger, sphinxes, upped the land count to 25/26. We will see how this plays out. I'll keep it updated. Sorry Geist! You still hold a special place in my heart!
Well, the problem with playing splits of things like anger is that, unlike other kinds od splits, when you need it, its because you want to wipe the board, most likely cause you are dying.
Draw the wrong one and you lose. Quite simple, actually. Besides, verdict seems a lot less necessary now that melira and zoo are on the rise, while jund/junk/GB are a lot less played. The only relevant target is fae, which isnt being played in big numbers.
I suppose you could make a case for etched champion, but . . . its too situational, right now anger seems the best of the 2 cards.
Yah I can see that. I played against Rock yesterday and it was a pretty hard match-up. All his creatures were pretty big so anger didn't hit many of them. Maybe by draw's were bad, only saw 2 path over both games, no Cryptics, and neither anger nor verdict, but even with one of them I think it might have been pretty difficult. Also I forgot to side in RIP against knight of the Reliquary. Ok so as I'm typing this maybe its not as horrible as I thought with some luck...
I was playing 2 Explosives, 1 verdict, 1 anger of gods, but thinking of dropping to 1 EE and adding another anger. Thoughts?
Also I just added a singleton runed halo, dam that card is awesome. Idunno if I would add anymore, but its just some extra bonus vs most decks.
I think you can cut the 4th path for a 3rd mana leak or electrolyze, aside from that the list looks perfect to me.
the only thing i really dont agree is with 2 veredicts and 1 anger. Either you play 2 verdicts, or 2 angers, not a split. And a lone mindsensor doesnt work, its 3 or none.
any one tested a singleton surgical extraction side board? Considering the amount of counters we run it could be really awesome against so many decks.
Sure looking at it, it could be decent with the amount of spot removal as well as counters that we are running. The problem, though, is that its a rather narrow card that you would potentially get when you didn't need it or get it when nothing viable to target and it's a dead card in hand waiting.
I would say its definitely worth testing though. It could be great in some metas.
yah even just vs pod alone, play surgical in response to Kitchen Finks hitting the yard is pretty awesome value.
I feel like I should be including at least 1 Celestial Purge, but I'm not sure what to cut, maybe the thundermaw? Also was thinking of toying around with Celestial Flare, but in essence its just another removal, that in a way runed halo may be better in some circumstances, i.e. it can hit hexproof creatures/emrakul etc.
I honestly think we could not be more thrilled at this pro tour. A similar WUR deck wins, our deck does really well, and fae was barely present. Plus the meta looks amazing now, almost legacy like with how much variance there was in having control, combo, aggro, and midrange all well positioned to win. There seemed to be very few total blowouts.
We just need a good plan of how to deal with Blue Moon post board.
What about pithing needle turning off pod? I love that card in the side as vs any planeswalker is just awesome. Also against pod, holding your PtE for their persist creatures in response to them trying to combo out is key.
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Just for reference here is my list:
4 path to exile
4 lightning bolt
3 remand
4 mana leak
3 lightning helix
3 electrolyze
2 cryptic command
2 spell snare
Creatures
4 geist of saint traft
4 snapcaster mage
2 restoration angel
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Sclading Tarn
4 celestial colonnade
3 steam vents
2 Tectonic Edge
3 hallowed fountain
1 sulfur falls
1 sacred foundry
1 plans
1 mountain
1 island
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 clifftop retreat
2 Runed Halo
1 engineered explosives
2 counterflux
1 Wear/Tear
1 Sowing Salt
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Anger of the Gods
1 timely reinforcements
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Stony Silence
1 Batterskull
1 Wrath of God
4 rouds:
#1: Vs black white?? (played with Hypnotic spectre, vampire nighthawk)
All creatures were 3 or less toughness, landed turn 3 geist both games. Total blowout didn't sideboard at all.
2-0
#2: Vs what he called "Rainbow Rage" 5 color with loxodon smiter, Burning Tree, Judge's Familiar, Boros Charm
Did a good job of keeping his board clear, 1 for 1. Then he started drawing into the loxodon smiters, had a giest on board with Eigango Castle took care of some of the Burning Trees, but he drew all 4 Smiters, was trading colonnades, saw no paths, G1.
Sideboard out giest, snare, and electrolyze, in wrath, anger, explosives, supreme, batterskull, wear/tear from some crazy enchantment that nulled my helixes G1.
open with 2 lands, supreme, wrath, batterskull, path, wear/tear, Awesome!
Never saw a 3rd land. GG
0-2
#3: Vs Splinter moon?
Good hand, no counters, path, plenty of removal. Easy keep vs twin. He lands a turn 3 blood moon, I have no response. G1
Game 2, in 2 counterflux, wear/tear, 2 runed halo, out 3 geist, 2 electrolyze.
open with crypic, leak, counterflux, snap, lands. Awesome
Playing the counter war all game draw go, he keeps trying to bate counters out of me with snap & Deceiver. I leak + snap a bunch of times, block his snaps with mine, always holding crypic and flux mana open. Draw into geist with 8 mana on board, play giest holding cryptic and flux, he has deceiver on board, he plays twin holding 3 mana open I think for bloodmoon, I choose to counter twin bounce his land instead of just countering with flux, he remands G2. Horrible miss play on my part, Always use the counterflux!
0-2
#4 Vs Mono Blue mill.
Basic race both games, sided in batterskull, on total aggro plan, she has a hard time racing geist, but its close.
2-0
Overall, a 2-2 split isnt horrible.... but I feel the 2 matches I won were total gimmies, which is a bit disappointing. I think that geist isnt great as he seemed to be a go to card to side out, although when he did work, boy did he work. Also thinking that the way I have the deck, which is slightly budget without Arid Mesa and Clique suffers a lot. Really hard to play around bloodmoon as I cant fetch all my basics, worse as I cant clique to get some info and disrupt combo.
I love this deck to death just for how dynamic it can play and take so many different roles, but for what Tarns are going for now I'm leaning towards dumping them for a big chunk of change, finishing off merfolk and coming back the UWr way when fetches are reprinted.
Thoughts?
EDIT: Going to try out the pure control version, out the geists, resto's, in with the verdicts, counterflux, anger, sphinxes, upped the land count to 25/26. We will see how this plays out. I'll keep it updated. Sorry Geist! You still hold a special place in my heart!
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Yah I can see that. I played against Rock yesterday and it was a pretty hard match-up. All his creatures were pretty big so anger didn't hit many of them. Maybe by draw's were bad, only saw 2 path over both games, no Cryptics, and neither anger nor verdict, but even with one of them I think it might have been pretty difficult. Also I forgot to side in RIP against knight of the Reliquary. Ok so as I'm typing this maybe its not as horrible as I thought with some luck...
I was playing 2 Explosives, 1 verdict, 1 anger of gods, but thinking of dropping to 1 EE and adding another anger. Thoughts?
Also I just added a singleton runed halo, dam that card is awesome. Idunno if I would add anymore, but its just some extra bonus vs most decks.
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why 2 of each instead of a split?
[edit] vvvvv Agreed..?
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yah even just vs pod alone, play surgical in response to Kitchen Finks hitting the yard is pretty awesome value.
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This is its current list
1 Runed Halo
2 engineered explosives
2 counterflux
1 Disenchant
1 Sowing Salt
1 Rest In Peace
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 pithing needle
1 timely reinforcements
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Stony Silence
1 Batterskull
1 Damping Matrix
I feel like I should be including at least 1 Celestial Purge, but I'm not sure what to cut, maybe the thundermaw? Also was thinking of toying around with Celestial Flare, but in essence its just another removal, that in a way runed halo may be better in some circumstances, i.e. it can hit hexproof creatures/emrakul etc.
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Ummm no...
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We just need a good plan of how to deal with Blue Moon post board.
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Ummm no...
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