I wouldn't recommend Spreading Seas in the sideboard. If you want to beat Eldrazi Tron dump the Crumbles and molten rains and run Ceremonious Rejection. It can counter any of their spells, even a T1 Map. And cheap to flashback. I've had much more success against Tron/Eldrazi, Lantern, affinity since adding copies of this card in the sideboard.
Why wouldn't you recommend Spreading Seas? It's so much better than Rejection in a metagame full of greedy manabases. Like it's way more broadly applicable than Rejection. Which isn't to say Rejection is bad, I think it's certainly playable, but Spreading Seas draws you a card so you can maintain card velocity and can very easily cut colors in this format right now.
I'm on the same page. I've been running a split of 3-4 Seas and 2 Rejection and it's been pretty good so far. I could see a 3/3 split as well. Seas is a solid T2 play against a lot of greedy manabases right now.
I don't think Seas is bad. I just don't think it's necessary with how well Rejection seems to be doing against a lot of the decks we've had trouble with historically (and some others as well). A lot of the decks that can randomly get wrecked by seas are already in the decent match-up range. I think Seas is really good in the Felidar combo version of Jeskai. I feel my sideboard choices are at a pretty high level at this point (after years of struggling to find the right way). I'm not saying you shouldn't run Seas if you like it, it's just I personally don't have the feeling like "man I wish I had seas", but I found that I often wished I had cards like Rejection.
It's very list dependent. I couldn't say for sure without seeing what cards you are using.
His list is on top of this page.
Oh, I see. Just in passing I can say that the Boros Charms are often going to be horrific. I don't think that's a very playable card. Otherwise, his 75 is well-suited to fight against Counters/Company. That match-up is much harder from the Jeskai side though to play optimally. Even though it's a positive match-up in theory you still have to play the strong lines. They have a linear plan of play out the creatures and try to set-up a combo.
It's very normal for Jeskai players to not understand why they are losing to Company (or to Jund) and why another Jeskai player is crushing it.
I am playing a burn oriented version, I really don't want to play Wall of Omens because they force me to tap out on turn 2 and possible fetch untapped shocks. I am closing my first round of tests with the list posted on page 217. Over 46 Matches counting only decks listed in modern sections of MTGSalvation, finishing with 73,91% winrate. Most losses were against the mentioned decks. 33% winrate against Counters Company or similar decks and 25% against Eldrazi.
Definetly didn't like it trying out Ancestral Visions last night, even tho I played very few matches with it, the card just felt too slow for my game plan even when I played it early. Going to replace them with Serum Visions.
Remands helped me find extra burns/lands or occasionally dodging some counters by bouncing my other spells back to my hand. Unfortunatly I do end up sideboarding them out against most matches except Combo decks, which I haven't was paired against all that much.
Following your advice, I am replacing one of them (down to 2) with Electrolyze. It's extra removal against Company decks and it still gives card advantage. Unfortunatly Devoted Druid is still a 0/2 danger, I guess I will have to bolt it and Eletrolyze other creepers.
I removed Celestial Purge, which was helping alot against Deathshadow decks, because it hits every creature of theirs and answer Liliana in any given point in time. Not having faced many Lilianas in this current meta and having charms as a bad alternative for her and considering my current winrate against Grixis Deathshadow is 83% over 6 matches and 100% against all other variations for a total of 9 Deathshadow matches. I guess I can afford to lose that card even tho. But by removing it, I am literally dead against Blood Moon, Ajani Vengeants or Skred red Planeswalkers if I didn't drop a Geist early enough.
I removed Grim Lavamancer of the sideboard and Eidolon of Rhetoric aswell. These two removals along with Celestial Purge, were exchanged with Ceremonious Rejection.
The question now is, since I have 3 Ceremonious Rejection, is it still worth to keep the two stony silences on the sideboard? I mean Tron variants are usually Eldrazi Variants now, that means no O-Stones and all sorts of annoying on activation artifacts, which have been replaced by colorless aggressive creatures and chalice of the void. By doing so, I could re-insert Grim Lavamancer for Affinity/Company decks (even tho I found them slightly antisinergetic with my Snaps since I run only 8 Fetch Lands) along with Shatterstorm or Celestial Purge.
Waiting for more feedback to start statistically testing a round with the new list (below). One month and a half to tune it for GP.
Creatures:
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
You're complaining about decks having their nut hand and you not being able to beat them. That's going to happen sometimes. I can't tell you the last time I lost to Abzan Company. Play 4 Spreading Seas in your sideboard if you want to beat Eldrazi Tron, their manabase is abysmal. Seas is great in the format right now anyway.
I wouldn't recommend Spreading Seas in the sideboard. If you want to beat Eldrazi Tron dump the Crumbles and molten rains and run Ceremonious Rejection. It can counter any of their spells, even a T1 Map. And cheap to flashback. I've had much more success against Tron/Eldrazi, Lantern, affinity since adding copies of this card in the sideboard.
Well boys, this card should absolute tilt for burn! Set it up with counterspell backup when you are at 5-8 life.
Flash it back later = )
It's going to be tilt for me too, I came here to ask for help.
I've have a very decent win rate with my list on not so "competitive" environments, FMN style and such. But I've been losing a lot, and I really mean ALOT against counter company. I used to find Melira and Abzan Company cake walk, but right now, with a build with even more removal I am just folding to all sorts of broken Companies, even when I have average to good hands. Another match-up that is giving me lots of trouble is Colorless Eldrazi Tron. Specially when they have nut hands.
Usually lose the either because I lack some gas in the end to get the last points of damage. Specially WHEN they chain the finks.
I am also getting slightly land secrewed.
So I am thinking of going down 1 remand down to two and 2 resto ration angels down to 0, to add 3 Ancestral Visions, since my only turn 1 play is Bolts and Grim Lavamancer if I sideboard him in.
Thoughts?
It's very list dependent. I couldn't say for sure without seeing what cards you are using.
I'm not sure though about 4 Ceremonious Rejection in the SB, maybe it's a meta call since he expect a lot of Eldratron during that tournament. I'm still having trouble finding the correct sideboarding vs Bant Eldrazi, because they have Cavern.
Probably because you are thinking about it in a very strange way. Why would your first thought be Bant Eldrazi? Rejection is great against Urzatron, Eldrazitron, Affinity, Lantern, and often Bant Eldrazi and Eldrazi and taxes. That's like saying RIP isn't good against Dredge because of Nature's claim. Sometimes your opponent has the foil to your foil. It's 4 out of 60. His deck is about 6% Caverns...
Ye seen like that tectonic edge actually seems like a very reasonable choice TappingStones.
I also agree that Tron is sort of a give up match-up, so I might try to run two Tectonic Edge over Ghost Quarter.
But on the other hand I've actually won two games ghost quarting myself for that extra mountain for the last points of burns. My list is also burn oriented like yours but not so much. I have more controlling elements so I have more white/blue lands and some times, not very often I get land screwed against decks that I don't want to shock myself against (I don't run warleaders helix, I run boros charm instead as you might have noticed a few pages back - regarding that list I actually dropped the last Cryptic Command the serum visions for remands like you and two extra charms).
I would really like seeing a UWR Geist build getting a top8 in some GP this year, but it seems it's not meant to be!
I am a geist fan, what can I say, I run it in every format (except legacy, cause nemesis is better :c).
Yeah, it's a fun deck. The Warleader's Helix are pretty fun because opponents often are surprised you are running it but it's exactly what the deck wants. It's usually the card you want to draw.
Why do you run Tectonic Edge instead of Ghost Quarter TappingStones? Isn't ghost quarter better in a midrange shell? We don't need many resources for counter wars against control so I guess we can get away destroying their manlands and refuelling them with new ones and tectonic edge is sort of slow against tron. Why do you run electrolyze?
I've actually run Tec edge over Ghost Quarter for a long time now. Here's the idea. People often say they run Ghost Quarter for Tron (or similar sentiment) from playing the match-up hundreds of times I found that even when I was running 4x maindeck Ghost Quarter my opp would usually still easily get Tron and beat me. And setting myself back on the land drop in the early game was not good either.
If you want to beat tron you have to run very strong hate cards in your sideboard.
Tec edge is the much better card against most decks. It's a mid to late game weapon to kill things like opposing Colonnades, and abzan/jund manlands. Occassionally you get to slow down Scapeshift with it(without giving them a basic).
I don't think there is upside for Jeskai to run Ghost Quarter and I'm curious if anyone is really having success stripping their lands in the early game (and giving basics) when they can just tec edge.
In regards to Electrolyze, I don't run it in my Jeskai Nahiri builds at the moment but that Geist list is a midrange burn deck. The 2 damage plus cycling is solid in that deck.
Here's a fun one you guys can try if you want to switch things up a bit. I have been tuning this Geist/burn midrange list for a while and have had my best results in the last few weeks. You usually win the fair match-ups by racing and Helix ends up being the best instant in the deck by a large margin in those games. Hence the inclusion of warleader's helix which was originally a one of but was often a card I was hoping to draw and as I played two a lot of matchups became better. It's very easy to kill your opponent's with single hit from a resto or two hits from a snap (and the rest burn) but the creature package supports Geist very well and often you can trade off the geist and get in the angel hit and burn out the opponent (or play your other geist!).
Any questions let me know. But this one is a delight!
I was more rering to your statement that "nothing comes close" to firewalker. Jeskai decks almost never run it because we've found it rarely comes to close to cards like Timely reinforcements (which often gains 12 life) and six creatures, Blessed Alliance which is a clean 2 for 1 (again can be flashed back.
I think it's a very rare sideboard choice against burn because 1. It's hard to cast early without double fetch, double shock. 2. You need it by turn two because burn often kills a few turns later. 3. It doesn't increase in value like instants and sorceries which benefit from the deck's 4 copies of snapcaster mages. 4. It's not good in other match-ups while cards like Ajani, BA, and even Timely can be. 5. You have to worry about getting blown out on blocks.
Most of the other cards are fine top decks late, easily to cast, have value in other match-ups and can either be recurred or are straight up 2 for 1. So I'm not saying Firewalker isn't ok but in Jeskai it's incorrect to say "nothing is close to it" when in fact many cards are close if not much better.
If you're gaining 12 life off of a Timely, you were already winning that game.
This point doesn't make a ton of sense. I play Timely the first time it might get hit with skull crack or A-Command and I might be shocking myself to get low enough to gain the six life. I then wait until my life is low again and flash it back. This is a VERY common sequence against burn.
Alliance isn't always a 2-for-1, if they have a spell heavy hand it's like a 1.3-for-1. Snapping back an Alliance is 4 mana or more, which isn't good in the matchup.
I don't think I said Alliance is always a 2 for one. And snapping it back at four mana is not difficult at all because you've already likely fired it off at instant speed to "counter" a boros charm or some other tap out spell at end of turn.
It's a rare sideboard card because Burn is only 5% of the meta and Zoo is non-existent. The card doesn't do anything against Shadow, where as Blessed Alliance and Condemn are both more reasonable there. The best thing for you to be Snapping back in that matchup is Lightning Helix because it gets close to a 3-for-1 a good amount of the time. Ajani is far too slow, 4 mana Lightning Helix isn't good enough.
How are your lightning helixs getting 3-1s? Also Ajani is fine at four mana because he is a toolbox sideboard card that is good in many match-ups. After sideboard you are presumably going pretty long against burn as most of your spells are good against them.
Firewalker is best against Burn, and worse than other cards in other matchups, and that's why you don't see it.
Firewalker is not even in the top 3-4 cards vs. burn for Jeskai. It's quite a bit better in straight U/W because it's much easier to hit WW in that deck without double fetch, double shock.
Nothing comes close to Kor Firewalker against burn
Care to explain? I have played competitive Jeskai for many years and have always found firewalker lacking. I have found it useful at time in a straight U/W list but not so useful in Jeskai.
Timely Reinforcements gives you 3 bodies and 6 life (plus flashback opp w Snap).
Ajani Vengeant is almost always a 2 for one and is great in other match-ups.
Blessed Alliance, as you say is also good in other match-ups.
Against Naya Burn in particular there are many turns where you can't block with it which is a very huge downside. They have 8 "damage can't be prevented" effects at instance speed and 4 of them grow their 2/2 so it will just eat the firewalker. "
Furthermore, I rarely see lists run this card anymore.
Generally I advise Jeskai players to pack multiple life gain spells that can be flashed back with Snapcaster or cards like Ajani Vengeant which is extremely effective.
Atarka's Command does not prevent damage, so it's just Skullcrack we need to be aware of if we want to block with Firewalker.
Firewalker is much harder to play around than a slow 3 mana (timely) or 4 mana (ajani) sorcery speed spell, because it gains 1 life many times, instead of several life one time. The prot. blocking is of course also very useful. Also, its a clock they can't touch. You'll generally start attacking with it pretty soon to end the game, while it gains life incrementally from your own and your opponents spells. You'll often need counter backup when playing timely or ajani, or you can be blown out, so it may be as late as 4-5-6 mana. Good luck with that if you're stuck on lands that particular game. Blessed alliance doesn't do as much, it's effectively just a "Counter target boros charm", but the instant speed and usefulness with snapcaster counts up. Helix is generally better than blessed because you can remove a creature in addition to the lifegain.
Burn fell out of top tier status for a while (before it returned more recently), so people then cut down on burn hate and Firewalkers a while back.
The WW casting cost can be a problem in jeskai (contra UW), but it will gain even more life in jeskai than UW because we play our own red spells.
Not saying everyone should play Firewalkers, but for people in burn-heavy local metas, I definitely think it's the most effective answer.
I was more rering to your statement that "nothing comes close" to firewalker. Jeskai decks almost never run it because we've found it rarely comes to close to cards like Timely reinforcements (which often gains 12 life) and six creatures, Blessed Alliance which is a clean 2 for 1 (again can be flashed back.
I think it's a very rare sideboard choice against burn because 1. It's hard to cast early without double fetch, double shock. 2. You need it by turn two because burn often kills a few turns later. 3. It doesn't increase in value like instants and sorceries which benefit from the deck's 4 copies of snapcaster mages. 4. It's not good in other match-ups while cards like Ajani, BA, and even Timely can be. 5. You have to worry about getting blown out on blocks.
Most of the other cards are fine top decks late, easily to cast, have value in other match-ups and can either be recurred or are straight up 2 for 1. So I'm not saying Firewalker isn't ok but in Jeskai it's incorrect to say "nothing is close to it" when in fact many cards are close if not much better.
Nothing comes close to Kor Firewalker against burn
Care to explain? I have played competitive Jeskai for many years and have always found firewalker lacking. I have found it useful at time in a straight U/W list but not so useful in Jeskai.
Timely Reinforcements gives you 3 bodies and 6 life (plus flashback opp w Snap).
Ajani Vengeant is almost always a 2 for one and is great in other match-ups.
Blessed Alliance, as you say is also good in other match-ups.
Against Naya Burn in particular there are many turns where you can't block with it which is a very huge downside. They have 8 "damage can't be prevented" effects at instance speed and 4 of them grow their 2/2 so it will just eat the firewalker.
Furthermore, I rarely see lists run this card anymore.
Generally I advise Jeskai players to pack multiple life gain spells that can be flashed back with Snapcaster or cards like Ajani Vengeant which is extremely effective.
This happened on his second turn. I would be at 16 life if I didn't block.
Should I have not blocked here?
Kor Firewalker isn't all that great in Jeskai. I suggest something like Blessed Alliance, Timely Reinforcements, and/or Ajani Vengeant in the sideboard if you expect a lot of zoo.
Do you still need the 1 stony silence after putting 3 ceremonious rejection in the side?
Why you don't like elspeth anymore? or do you find it not good enough vs death shadow and eldrazi?
It will take some testing. The reason it might still make the cut is that it comes in against a lot of match-ups. Lantern, Affinity, Urzatron, Ad Naus, Cherrios, etc. But it's not a lock. I'll have to see how my matchups feel.
In regards to Elspeth, it just felt like a horrible slot at the GP and LCT. I LOVED her at GP Gunagzhou but meta is different.
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I don't think Seas is bad. I just don't think it's necessary with how well Rejection seems to be doing against a lot of the decks we've had trouble with historically (and some others as well). A lot of the decks that can randomly get wrecked by seas are already in the decent match-up range. I think Seas is really good in the Felidar combo version of Jeskai. I feel my sideboard choices are at a pretty high level at this point (after years of struggling to find the right way). I'm not saying you shouldn't run Seas if you like it, it's just I personally don't have the feeling like "man I wish I had seas", but I found that I often wished I had cards like Rejection.
Oh, I see. Just in passing I can say that the Boros Charms are often going to be horrific. I don't think that's a very playable card. Otherwise, his 75 is well-suited to fight against Counters/Company. That match-up is much harder from the Jeskai side though to play optimally. Even though it's a positive match-up in theory you still have to play the strong lines. They have a linear plan of play out the creatures and try to set-up a combo.
It's very normal for Jeskai players to not understand why they are losing to Company (or to Jund) and why another Jeskai player is crushing it.
I wouldn't recommend Spreading Seas in the sideboard. If you want to beat Eldrazi Tron dump the Crumbles and molten rains and run Ceremonious Rejection. It can counter any of their spells, even a T1 Map. And cheap to flashback. I've had much more success against Tron/Eldrazi, Lantern, affinity since adding copies of this card in the sideboard.
It's very list dependent. I couldn't say for sure without seeing what cards you are using.
Well boys, this card should absolute tilt for burn! Set it up with counterspell backup when you are at 5-8 life.
Flash it back later = )
Probably because you are thinking about it in a very strange way. Why would your first thought be Bant Eldrazi? Rejection is great against Urzatron, Eldrazitron, Affinity, Lantern, and often Bant Eldrazi and Eldrazi and taxes. That's like saying RIP isn't good against Dredge because of Nature's claim. Sometimes your opponent has the foil to your foil. It's 4 out of 60. His deck is about 6% Caverns...
Yeah, it's a fun deck. The Warleader's Helix are pretty fun because opponents often are surprised you are running it but it's exactly what the deck wants. It's usually the card you want to draw.
I've actually run Tec edge over Ghost Quarter for a long time now. Here's the idea. People often say they run Ghost Quarter for Tron (or similar sentiment) from playing the match-up hundreds of times I found that even when I was running 4x maindeck Ghost Quarter my opp would usually still easily get Tron and beat me. And setting myself back on the land drop in the early game was not good either.
If you want to beat tron you have to run very strong hate cards in your sideboard.
Tec edge is the much better card against most decks. It's a mid to late game weapon to kill things like opposing Colonnades, and abzan/jund manlands. Occassionally you get to slow down Scapeshift with it(without giving them a basic).
I don't think there is upside for Jeskai to run Ghost Quarter and I'm curious if anyone is really having success stripping their lands in the early game (and giving basics) when they can just tec edge.
In regards to Electrolyze, I don't run it in my Jeskai Nahiri builds at the moment but that Geist list is a midrange burn deck. The 2 damage plus cycling is solid in that deck.
Any questions let me know. But this one is a delight!
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Restoration Angel
2x Thundermaw Hellkite
1x Vendilion Clique
Instants/Sorceries (21)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
3x Electrolyze
4x Path to Exile
2x Warleader's Helix
4x Remand
4x Flooded Strand
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Arid Mesa
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Steam Vents
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Spirebluff Canal
3x Tectonic Edge
2x Spell Queller
4x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Rest in Peace
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Negate
2x Molten Rain
How are your lightning helixs getting 3-1s? Also Ajani is fine at four mana because he is a toolbox sideboard card that is good in many match-ups. After sideboard you are presumably going pretty long against burn as most of your spells are good against them.
Firewalker is not even in the top 3-4 cards vs. burn for Jeskai. It's quite a bit better in straight U/W because it's much easier to hit WW in that deck without double fetch, double shock.
I was more rering to your statement that "nothing comes close" to firewalker. Jeskai decks almost never run it because we've found it rarely comes to close to cards like Timely reinforcements (which often gains 12 life) and six creatures, Blessed Alliance which is a clean 2 for 1 (again can be flashed back.
I think it's a very rare sideboard choice against burn because 1. It's hard to cast early without double fetch, double shock. 2. You need it by turn two because burn often kills a few turns later. 3. It doesn't increase in value like instants and sorceries which benefit from the deck's 4 copies of snapcaster mages. 4. It's not good in other match-ups while cards like Ajani, BA, and even Timely can be. 5. You have to worry about getting blown out on blocks.
Most of the other cards are fine top decks late, easily to cast, have value in other match-ups and can either be recurred or are straight up 2 for 1. So I'm not saying Firewalker isn't ok but in Jeskai it's incorrect to say "nothing is close to it" when in fact many cards are close if not much better.
Care to explain? I have played competitive Jeskai for many years and have always found firewalker lacking. I have found it useful at time in a straight U/W list but not so useful in Jeskai.
Timely Reinforcements gives you 3 bodies and 6 life (plus flashback opp w Snap).
Ajani Vengeant is almost always a 2 for one and is great in other match-ups.
Blessed Alliance, as you say is also good in other match-ups.
Against Naya Burn in particular there are many turns where you can't block with it which is a very huge downside. They have 8 "damage can't be prevented" effects at instance speed and 4 of them grow their 2/2 so it will just eat the firewalker.
Furthermore, I rarely see lists run this card anymore.
Generally I advise Jeskai players to pack multiple life gain spells that can be flashed back with Snapcaster or cards like Ajani Vengeant which is extremely effective.
Kor Firewalker isn't all that great in Jeskai. I suggest something like Blessed Alliance, Timely Reinforcements, and/or Ajani Vengeant in the sideboard if you expect a lot of zoo.
Yes, but they can remand their storm card and play it again. Even bigger! But yes, Mindbreak Trap is viable, if niche.
It will take some testing. The reason it might still make the cut is that it comes in against a lot of match-ups. Lantern, Affinity, Urzatron, Ad Naus, Cherrios, etc. But it's not a lock. I'll have to see how my matchups feel.
In regards to Elspeth, it just felt like a horrible slot at the GP and LCT. I LOVED her at GP Gunagzhou but meta is different.