So far I've had pretty good results in MTGO 2-Player Queue and I will continue to test.
Your deck looks like it plays enough at instant speed that Sword of Feast and Famine looks viable--do you think it's better or worse than SoFaI in this deck?
Does anyone else think that Supreme Will is a great card for this deck? I've found that 3-mana Mana Leak hits a lot more things than Censor's counter mode, and the card filtering is swell. This deck can have problems finding threats and controlling the game, and Supreme Will looks like a good fixer in both categories.
Alright, so I've gotten quite a bit of testing in with Whirler Rogue, and I can safely say that it's a pretty great inclusion as a one-of so far. It has so many little things that I loved about it during testing, such as being able to block an Etched Champion and being a late-game bomb versus Abzan by going wide and getting Geist through Goyfs and Souls (Abzan especially seems to have a tough time when you resolve the card). Its pretty decent against both Jund and Grixis, as well, since it's at least a 2-for-1 there, and sometimes a 3-for-1. Blinking the thing with Resto is a scary prospect for any fair deck. It adds a lot of little things to the deck and those little things really added up from what I could tell.
In conclusion, I definitely think it's a card we need to be giving more attention to. Am I sure that it belongs here? No, not yet, but it's certainly very promising.
I've generally had big trouble sticking any creature other than Geist of Saint Traft in Geist Midrange, so I heavily suspect that Pia and Kiran Nalaar are better than Whirler Rogue in your build. Opponents are forced to boot the primary body in order to stop Parents Nalaar for activating their ability once, while they can kill a single Whirler Rogue token and keep you from making anything unblockable more than once (at least until Resto blinks the Rogue). A Parents Nalaar ping plus a Bolt can outright kill an X/5. If you really need to race Tron, Parents Nalaar can realistically put out 6 damage the turn after it ETB, while Whirler Rogue always swings for 4 max.
Admittedly, Parents Nalaar have been feeling slow lately, and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar has been such a fantastically faster clock...
I've been farting around with Geist of Saint Win again, and I took out 2 top-end flex spots to try out Ojutai Exemplars. I was thinking it would be decent against Abzan Midrange...
...and it was. It's easy enough to block a 4/5 with Exemplars (or watch them block Exemplars with a 4/5), then burn the 4/5 and give Exemplars First Strike, thus killing the 4/5 and keeping Exemplars. It also doesn't get hit by that many of Abzan's removal spells, and casting an instant other than Remand takes care of the rest of the spot removal (although it has a hard time dodging Liliana). I'm still hoping to achieve the wet dream of tapping blockers out of Traft's way with Exemplars, but when Exemplars works, it definitely works.
Shame that actually keeping instants in hand can be a bit tricky against Abzan...I sometimes have to be ballsy and slam Exemplars while it's vulnerable.
I also tried Exemplars for a bit against Abzan Liege, Grixis Delver, and Twin, and results were also fairly good. As predicted, Exemplars completely bossed around the combat phase against Liege (although, sometimes, fending off attacks for 5 turns straight isn't enough). Exemplars was decent against Delver, just like against Abzan Midrange. Exemplars was slow to land against Twin, but it's hard to nail with double burn, and I even had a game where two Exemplars started tapping their guys and Lifelinking like a boss, then they tried to stick a Twin, I smell a rat and PtE their Exarch and tap it and a Tiago in response, then they Dispel the PtE but have Twin on a tapped Exarch, and I swing back FTW.
Of course, as a white midrange breaker that slaps combat silly, comparisons to Gideon Jura are inevitable. I suppose Gideon can be more vulnerable to creature removal and costs 1 mana more, but a mere Slaughter Pact never stops him from effectively blocking a 4/5 (unlike Exemplars, who got Pacted against Abzan once, so I cast an instant in response to save it, but it ended up tapped and couldn't block that lethal-swinging Siege Rhino).
Instant of Anticipate, I want a slight variation available in Modern. 1U
Instant
Look at the top 3 cards of your library, then put them back in any order. Draw a card.
This is both card selection and sets up your next draws.
I'd rather play Telling Time than that because I typically find at least 1 trash card in every top 3 cards.
If you gave me the option of shuffling my library or putting any of the top 3 cards on the bottom before drawing, I'd be in business.
I'm not saying it has no place in the deck, but I like anticipate more in decks with a good number of high impact one or two of's. You can make a case that we have a couple like Thundermaw, or Batterskull, but I am thinking more along the lines of finding sweepers, or Sphinx's Rev as an example. This version of UWR Midrange has eschewed selection in favor of redundancy. Think about it, if you Anticipate and see burn spell, burn spell, burn spell, it was effectively a can trip and you got zero value from the selection factor. Now that's not likely to happen of course, I am just illustrating a point that the deck tries to be redundant enough to not need the selection. Twin decks on the other hand value the selection because they can assemble a combo that suddenly wins the game.
Even in seriously redundant decks (like Legacy Thresh variants (which play tons of 4-ofs, ~12 creatures, 4+ removal spells, 8+ counterspells...) and supposedly this deck), I've found that selection-providing cantrips give me cards with significantly higher card quality than plain old cantrips. I typically see something like land-disruption-threat or land-land-disruption/threat whenever I resolve Anticipate in this deck. At least in another URx Midrange deck, I've even flipped 3 lands before, then took the only land that could tap for red mana because I was colour-screwed at the time.
Ive recently picked up Geist after playing other U aggro/controlly decks like Merfolk and Delver and like it a lot - although I think Merfolk is the best of the three for me personally (due to much more familiarity with the deck over the others no doubt).
Ive picked up the grate nate version which I think is pretty strong - although Ive been testing Kitchen Finks dropping Thudermaw and reducing Clique numbers and making the mana base a bit more white. One big problem with Geist is that when I look over my notes I see - lost due to mana screw really often. I try to mulligan two landers but often I end up in a worse position - how many of you Geist players die after being stuck on two mana - missing land drops etc. It appears to be a really big problem with this deck - let me know if im doing something wrong here?
Im very keen to try some sort of instant speed library manipulation like Anticipate or Telling Time - is this a reasonable idea?
I lose basically every game where I'm stuck on 2 lands for the entire game. Those have been exceedingly rare--I'm stuck on 3-4 lands more often.
The latest stuff I put in my flex slots are Anticipate (Man, Dig Through Time was great while it lasted...). They've been fairly good, and they're nice to Flashback with Tiago. I recently cut them to 2-ofs instead of 3-ofs to try out 1 Secure the Wastes (which has been surprisingly good against BGx Midrange--it helps wins games even before Tiago has an opportunity to Flashback it--its colours are sooooo much easier than White Sun's Zenith's, and I've cast it for X = 2 in a pinch--I typically aim to cast it for X = 4+, but stuff happens).
I think we could probably run 2x Anticipate easily. The control versions of this deck have had a few instances of the card being run as a 2-4-of. I think it's much better than Telling Time.
We can likely cut a land for 2-3 of them. The trouble is that the midrange version of the deck is a lot more intensive on getting early game going, so casting it becomes awkward. However, the fact that its a cheap mini dig through time I think makes it valuable late as well.
I'm a fan of Anticipate, but the only lands I can recommend for cutting are lands that tap for 1 or fewer colours. When I tested a 24-land Geist of Saint Win version, cutting Sulfur Falls was pretty detrimental.
what do we all think of Swans of bryn argoll its a 4/3 flyer that turns our bolts into ancestral recalland out helixes to sphynxes rev for 3
It also turns THEIR Bolts into Ancestral Recall and THEIR other burn spells to similar mondo value. Oof, getting that guy hit with Kolaghan's Command would be nasty...
I like the idea, and I think with an aggressive Geist, its better than Eiganjo Castle, since as you mention the main draw to Eiganjo is protecting from sweepers. One problem with Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep however, is that it requires you to have another red source untapped so that we can cast a Bolt or Helix or something. Since activating it essentially uses RR (tapping Shinka and tapping a separate Red source) this means we basically need RRR on board for the first strike to matter in most combat situations. Thats a bit harder to manage than the virtual WW for Eiganjo.
The thing is that preventing 2 damage will not matter in combat against 4+/X's such as Siege Rhino, Tasigur, most Goyfs, Batterskull, and Celestial Colonnade. Against all the 4+/5-'s (hint: that's basically everything I already mentioned), First Strike into burn matters more.
Has anyone else tried Frost Walker in UWR Midrange? It is quite aggressive, and it's very vulnerable to removal (among other embarrassing things, it dies to Pestermite's ETB ability and Cryptic Command's bounce mode), but it doesn't need a critical noncreature spell density (unlike Monastery Mentor), it's a 2-drop in a deck without that many 2-drops, and it's got a pretty big front end (so big, it is a 5-turn clock and it trades with some Goyfs). Heck, I tend to get better results with Frost Walker than with Soulfire Grand Master (I have no instant/sorcery in hand by the time I play SGM too often, SGM dies before I untap with it too often), or at least I feel better whenever I play Frost Walker than whenever I play SGM. (I just swapped out SGM for another Frost Walker again today.)
I'm sure it's good but I think our graveyard is a much too important a resource to justify any more than 2 dig through time, personally I wouldnt go more than 1.
The deck's only interaction with the grave is Snap. I'm not advocating running 4, but 1 or 2 copies can add a lot of punch to the deck. I think it's pretty hard to debate running none, and it's almost certainly better than Electrolyze, if people still have room in their lists for that.
I doubt Dig Through Time is better than Electrolyze in the current more UR Delver-heavy Modern meta. Electrolyze cleans out Young Pyromancer's clock fast, smacks flipped Delver, and might smack Monastery Swiftspear. It's also hard to cast DTT fast enough against Burn (you need to partially stabilize with removal/counterspells first, as the fastest I've cast DTT in UWR Midrange is Turn 4), and Electrolyze at least gets most of their guys.
I do like 2 DTTs in regular UWR Midrange decks, though. In good old Geist of Saint Win, I have a hard time supporting 3-4 and casting them fast enough--sometimes, even 2 DTT are a mite slow.
I find that Jeskai Charm is a little too comparable to Psionic Blast. I don't know which spell's removal mode is better (Jeskai Charm only top-libraries, but it can hit X/5+'s, while Psionic Blast only deals 4 damage to creatures, but it outright kills), and at least Jeskai Charm's burn mode doesn't target, the Charm has a third mode, and it doesn't damage you, but Psionic Blast is easier to cast.
...And, while I did like Psionic Blast in UR Twin, it doesn't see Modern play.
I'm trying Jeskai Charm instead of 1 Path to Exile and the Charm is increasingly disappointing me. Convince me to keep (or drop) it!
why no one plays deflecting palm??? i think its amazing card.
Deflecting Palm is pretty situational. It's mondo-Boros Charm against decks with consistent 4+/X's, and some days, it ruins Ascendancy Storm pre-board when they reach for Flesh // Blood, but it goes off way too late against Scapeshift (you redirect only one Valakut trigger), it's basically dead against UR Storm (you redirect one Grapeshot copy), and you bet Ad Nauseam won't board out Pact of Negation against you (thus, you can't hit their Lightning Storm). It's marginal against URx Delver (their biggest guys are 3/X). It's marginal against UWR Control (Colonnade starts swinging late-game). Lightning Helix is probably more consistent...but it's probably already a 4-of.
Has anyone else actually tested Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker (as opposed to considering him, which I've read in the last few pages of this thread)? I've tried him, and I've generally found him good enough to boot out both Thundermaw and Stormbreath from contention. (I like one 5-cmc Haste Dragon in my Geist of Saint Win.) His removal mode tends to more than compensate for not having 1 more P/T, pro-white, or being able to block.
Has anyone else tried him? If so, did you like him or ditch him?
Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried Brimaz, King of Oreskos in the Geist slot? I think I like him better than Blade Splicer, since the Golem token can be hit by Bolt and Helix, and if you don't have a Restoration Angel in hand you can't get another token, leaving you with a pretty useless 1/1. Brimaz theoretically (haven't tested this, just proposing an idea) should be better since it dodges Bolt/Helix, has vigilance and blocks Nacatl all day long (so does a Golem with First Strike, but the token is far easier to remove), and produces it's own Vigilance tokens continuously. He is legendary though, so no multiples on the field, unlike Splicer. But then again, Geist was legendary and that didn't stop us from running him as a 3-4 of. Brimaz has a different set of strengths and weaknesses than Geist, but I think he might be better for this meta than either Geist or Splicer. Both Brimaz and Splicer swing for the same amount initially, but Brimaz can keep producing tokens on his own. He's more vulnerable to removal than Geist but has much more solid stats and Vigilance, which can really come in handy. Plus he makes more tokens that also have Vigilance. Brimaz can't be abused with Restoration Angel like Splicer can, but he can still be saved by Restoration Angel if necessary, and there's still Snapcaster and Clique for abuse of ETB effects with the angel. I haven't seriously tested it, but it seems worth mentioning as at least an alternative to Geist/Splicer. Anyone tried Brimaz out?
I tried Brimaz instead of Blade Splicer, and I probably prefer Splicer overall. Brimaz isn't so hot against Jund (they play 0-3 Anger + 4 Bolt vs. >7 Decay/Pulse/Terminate/Liliana combined), and the double white actually hurts.
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Your deck looks like it plays enough at instant speed that Sword of Feast and Famine looks viable--do you think it's better or worse than SoFaI in this deck?
I've generally had big trouble sticking any creature other than Geist of Saint Traft in Geist Midrange, so I heavily suspect that Pia and Kiran Nalaar are better than Whirler Rogue in your build. Opponents are forced to boot the primary body in order to stop Parents Nalaar for activating their ability once, while they can kill a single Whirler Rogue token and keep you from making anything unblockable more than once (at least until Resto blinks the Rogue). A Parents Nalaar ping plus a Bolt can outright kill an X/5. If you really need to race Tron, Parents Nalaar can realistically put out 6 damage the turn after it ETB, while Whirler Rogue always swings for 4 max.
Admittedly, Parents Nalaar have been feeling slow lately, and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar has been such a fantastically faster clock...
...and it was. It's easy enough to block a 4/5 with Exemplars (or watch them block Exemplars with a 4/5), then burn the 4/5 and give Exemplars First Strike, thus killing the 4/5 and keeping Exemplars. It also doesn't get hit by that many of Abzan's removal spells, and casting an instant other than Remand takes care of the rest of the spot removal (although it has a hard time dodging Liliana). I'm still hoping to achieve the wet dream of tapping blockers out of Traft's way with Exemplars, but when Exemplars works, it definitely works.
Shame that actually keeping instants in hand can be a bit tricky against Abzan...I sometimes have to be ballsy and slam Exemplars while it's vulnerable.
I also tried Exemplars for a bit against Abzan Liege, Grixis Delver, and Twin, and results were also fairly good. As predicted, Exemplars completely bossed around the combat phase against Liege (although, sometimes, fending off attacks for 5 turns straight isn't enough). Exemplars was decent against Delver, just like against Abzan Midrange. Exemplars was slow to land against Twin, but it's hard to nail with double burn, and I even had a game where two Exemplars started tapping their guys and Lifelinking like a boss, then they tried to stick a Twin, I smell a rat and PtE their Exarch and tap it and a Tiago in response, then they Dispel the PtE but have Twin on a tapped Exarch, and I swing back FTW.
Of course, as a white midrange breaker that slaps combat silly, comparisons to Gideon Jura are inevitable. I suppose Gideon can be more vulnerable to creature removal and costs 1 mana more, but a mere Slaughter Pact never stops him from effectively blocking a 4/5 (unlike Exemplars, who got Pacted against Abzan once, so I cast an instant in response to save it, but it ended up tapped and couldn't block that lethal-swinging Siege Rhino).
I'd rather play Telling Time than that because I typically find at least 1 trash card in every top 3 cards.
If you gave me the option of shuffling my library or putting any of the top 3 cards on the bottom before drawing, I'd be in business.
Even in seriously redundant decks (like Legacy Thresh variants (which play tons of 4-ofs, ~12 creatures, 4+ removal spells, 8+ counterspells...) and supposedly this deck), I've found that selection-providing cantrips give me cards with significantly higher card quality than plain old cantrips. I typically see something like land-disruption-threat or land-land-disruption/threat whenever I resolve Anticipate in this deck. At least in another URx Midrange deck, I've even flipped 3 lands before, then took the only land that could tap for red mana because I was colour-screwed at the time.
I lose basically every game where I'm stuck on 2 lands for the entire game. Those have been exceedingly rare--I'm stuck on 3-4 lands more often.
The latest stuff I put in my flex slots are Anticipate (Man, Dig Through Time was great while it lasted...). They've been fairly good, and they're nice to Flashback with Tiago. I recently cut them to 2-ofs instead of 3-ofs to try out 1 Secure the Wastes (which has been surprisingly good against BGx Midrange--it helps wins games even before Tiago has an opportunity to Flashback it--its colours are sooooo much easier than White Sun's Zenith's, and I've cast it for X = 2 in a pinch--I typically aim to cast it for X = 4+, but stuff happens).
I'm a fan of Anticipate, but the only lands I can recommend for cutting are lands that tap for 1 or fewer colours. When I tested a 24-land Geist of Saint Win version, cutting Sulfur Falls was pretty detrimental.
It also turns THEIR Bolts into Ancestral Recall and THEIR other burn spells to similar mondo value. Oof, getting that guy hit with Kolaghan's Command would be nasty...
...let's just be thankful that Roast doesn't hit it and start fretting about that guy who wants to hit it with Flame Slash, Searing Blaze, Grim Lavamancer, Galvanic Blast, Keranos, God of Storms, or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle triggers.
Needing to tap 4 mana at sorcery speed for Swans is also fairly ugly.
I therefore think that Swans is too big a liability against red decks.
The thing is that preventing 2 damage will not matter in combat against 4+/X's such as Siege Rhino, Tasigur, most Goyfs, Batterskull, and Celestial Colonnade. Against all the 4+/5-'s (hint: that's basically everything I already mentioned), First Strike into burn matters more.
I doubt Dig Through Time is better than Electrolyze in the current more UR Delver-heavy Modern meta. Electrolyze cleans out Young Pyromancer's clock fast, smacks flipped Delver, and might smack Monastery Swiftspear. It's also hard to cast DTT fast enough against Burn (you need to partially stabilize with removal/counterspells first, as the fastest I've cast DTT in UWR Midrange is Turn 4), and Electrolyze at least gets most of their guys.
I do like 2 DTTs in regular UWR Midrange decks, though. In good old Geist of Saint Win, I have a hard time supporting 3-4 and casting them fast enough--sometimes, even 2 DTT are a mite slow.
...And, while I did like Psionic Blast in UR Twin, it doesn't see Modern play.
I'm trying Jeskai Charm instead of 1 Path to Exile and the Charm is increasingly disappointing me. Convince me to keep (or drop) it!
Deflecting Palm is pretty situational. It's mondo-Boros Charm against decks with consistent 4+/X's, and some days, it ruins Ascendancy Storm pre-board when they reach for Flesh // Blood, but it goes off way too late against Scapeshift (you redirect only one Valakut trigger), it's basically dead against UR Storm (you redirect one Grapeshot copy), and you bet Ad Nauseam won't board out Pact of Negation against you (thus, you can't hit their Lightning Storm). It's marginal against URx Delver (their biggest guys are 3/X). It's marginal against UWR Control (Colonnade starts swinging late-game). Lightning Helix is probably more consistent...but it's probably already a 4-of.
Has anyone else tried him? If so, did you like him or ditch him?
I tried Brimaz instead of Blade Splicer, and I probably prefer Splicer overall. Brimaz isn't so hot against Jund (they play 0-3 Anger + 4 Bolt vs. >7 Decay/Pulse/Terminate/Liliana combined), and the double white actually hurts.