Hm, dont think Kiora is good enough. Its CMC4 for a card and a land drop and then gets killed by a 1/1.
But man yesterday I played T2 Hermit Druid and kept activating him to dig for my 5 basic lands.
While my graveyard was very full very fast I received a beatdown from a Sidisi Deck and was at 5 life when I could cast Splendid Reclamation - get 9 Gates + Mazes End back into play, could untap the Maze's End and was 1 mana short to activate it. Oh man, SO CLOSE!
1. Why Gaea's Cradle? I know it's one of the coolest non-basics, but it doesn't seem suited for your deck. Its just too good to not run it. I added more creatures to the build and I can toolbox it once I have enough creatures. Great for casting the great aurora
If cradle cannot consistently make at least +2 by turn 3, it's not good. Sure, it makes tons after you play avenger. But what do you need tons of mana for post-avenger? It's all about the early turns.
2. Cantrips like Brainstorm, Preordain are pretty low impact in your build. You're not going to be able to chain them together and churn through your library. I felt like I needed some filtering, casted both cards and I was not disappointed. Synergy with Oracle and Courser
3. So...why not Gamble? It's as real of a tutor as Mystical/Enlightened/Vampiric. Yeah it has a cost, but when you win it's IN HAND and that's huge! I know, I know...but I didnt want to make a tutor tribal like 5C Hermit Druid to be honest
4. Horn of Greed if you're going to max up on land-drops. I know, maybe Ill try it, but I dont like giving my opponents an advantage without being able to bounce it or EOT flash it in
5. Need more than just one sacrifice land. Maybe that's why the Child back-up plan hasn't picked up. I was able to sac. the child every time I cast it. Its also a good blocker.
6. The ultimate draw power for this deck is Ad Nausaem. Just wait until you get to do it for 20+ cards. I know but now I have to much CMC and when I EOT Ad Nauseam I have no way to win unlike a storm deck.
7. Mentioned in previous posts, I'd recommend against STAX pieces. Even if you lock players out, your win conditions don't end the game fast enough to take advantage. Yes, I left them out. But some prison type effects would still be nice.
8. I also notice many "wheel" effects in your build. How have they been for you? Dump my hand, play wheel, dump again. Super sweet. Plus I can get things in my GY that way.
9. Yes, Knight of the Reliquary is only really maximized when you have a complete Dual + fetch manabase. I would say the same for Lotus Cobra. I will probably take out the Cobra. The point why I left Knight in there is because even if I cant tutor with him he'll still be a big creature for CMC3
I just want to encourage you to keep playing the deck. This is one of those decks where it's tough to pick-up and play. Will play it tonight again. Now with the new card from EMN I will make it more graveyard based and cheat the lands into play. Just like reanimator decks, but with lands.
Ill post my updated list in the afternoon once I got it sorted
So I could play two games yesterday and the deck felt much better.
The wheels really helped me fill back up my hand, casting the great aurora felt very good and cradle tapped for 20.
I have to make some adjustments, I changed out some cards from that list beforehand, and now Ill exchange another 2-3 cards and then it should be good.
From today on the new toy from EMN is also playable so Ill add that along with a hermit druid since I only have 6 basics right now and the mill will be good.
Right now I dont like the manabase, somethings off here.
I dont want to take out the janky lands that produce no mana - because lands.dec, right?? But are they needed anymore after all these creatures I added? Maybe hall of mist will go. And Island of Wak-Wak, you are so sweet, I dont want to cut you.
A few cards I consider if they will go because they probably wont do enough are Knight of the Reliquary (not enough plains & forests without Omen), Centaur Vinecrasher (will my graveyard ever be big enough, I think the card finds no support in this deck...)
Cradle is just too broken to not run it in a lands deck, everything above 1x G is great.
Well I have a Prossh Deck that is lands.dec'ish and it just escalates after Turn 5 (its not infinite, not combo, never attacks with Prossh - but its Storm).
I ordered some more cards and Ill see what I can come up with.
I thought about adding more Token stuff to get something going, but my Prossh Deck is already doing that.
Also I didnt want to put all the Fetches/Duals in there as it seemed too easy and wanted to develop something janky but I think Ill have to end up with a mix of fetches, duals and karoo lands (not the slow fetches).
And Im not even sure how to kill anymore, as I started to build this deck I was very pleased with the possibilities but now Im just in a puddle of depression lol.
Anyways - what Ill be trying now is: More lands matter cards, faster lands, more card draw/wheels and as for Kill Conditions: Maze's End and...beatdown with something?
Basically I run every card that lets me play extra lands - the problem I figured is that my hand is empty rather quickly and I have no way to draw more cards or make use of the lands that are in play. All the busted draw spells are creature based (draw a card for each creature you control is pretty broken in Prossh). The only time I really profited of the extra land drops was when I had Tabernacle and Storm Cauldron out and my opponents had only 1-3 lands in play after they passed. But then again - I didnt have a follow up plan to make use of the situation and just sat there making my land drops. Maybe its really stax (Humility, Tax/Prison effects) that needs to be in this build and win with a scapeshift into the gates. I can also see all wheel effects here to fill up my hands (timetwister, wheel of fortune).
Cause right now Im just sitting there playing slow lands and get my ass beaten by creatures.
One of the guys I play with suggested a more graveyard based strategy with cards like Hermit Druid (he has a pretty good Gitrog Lands Deck so he has some experience there).
My deck is kinda like yours except I added a few more creatures like gitrog, keranos, dark confidant, mia and denn for the card advantage/land drops.
Man, I played the deck on friday and I was a bit disappointed.
The liar lands are too slow and bad if you have no extra land drops, for the bounce I would play karoo lands since they dont decimate your mana.
This deck is not broken enough, somethings missing.
Sure gamble is nice - but its a gamble where SS is a real tutor
Its just a suggestion, I dont know how you like to play. I think youll see in playtesting what performs well and what doesnt and make the cut based on experience.
I dont like the "top creature card" condition on corpse dance + if you buyback it someone can thoughtseize you in their turn since they know what you're up to.
The buyback is super sweet, but its too vulnerable so I think Ill only use Gift just to upset everybody and casually make land drops.
Im still waiting for like 80 cards in the mail now - cant wait to start building this deck.
Josh from The Command Zone Podcast also noted on Twitter and in the podcast he wants to build a 5C lands.dec - im excited to see what he comes up with.
I would cut gamble. If you have no way to get that out of the graveyard which you tutored for or you have only one card in hand its useless.
Sylvan is a real tutor that isn't disadvantage.
If you compare both, I think in this Deck Sylvan is just better - you have enough tutors for everything else you need.
I'll definitely will add Gift of Immortality - it looks just too good.
I like to look at all lists I can find when I build a deck and assamble something which I think has the best of all without trying to do everything at once and nothing of that right.
Ill post my list when I got all the cards together - should be by next week.
Thanks for your response, note that it wasn't directed at your decklist in general - more like a general discussion to help me to understand whats good in here and what not. I have like 150 cards laying here and try to figure out whats good and what not. But so far I love all the janky land cards I got together
Oblivion Stone is very interesting. I might play it instead of a Cyclonic Rift. The problem is it wont get around indestructible Gods etc.
Still not sure about worm harvest. What can we do with these 1/1's except for jump blocking?
We cant feed them to anything, cant pump them, attacking seems useless...
What about Genesis Wave as a mass ramp card? I think we should hit a good amount of targets here since you can put the lands into play!? I see you already added it...
Retreat to Coralhelm to get some Landfall going? Just an Idea - not sure if can be OP here, might tap down some attackers
Mass hate like Vandalblast or a reset button (if child is no option) like Cyclonic Rift? I see the advantage that they both only need a single color to cast them which we should be able to have at that time.
Iam just building this deck and playing with some ideas...
My 5C Superfriends Deck showed huge improvements after adding creature hate to slow down my opponents.
But man yesterday I played T2 Hermit Druid and kept activating him to dig for my 5 basic lands.
While my graveyard was very full very fast I received a beatdown from a Sidisi Deck and was at 5 life when I could cast Splendid Reclamation - get 9 Gates + Mazes End back into play, could untap the Maze's End and was 1 mana short to activate it. Oh man, SO CLOSE!
The wheels really helped me fill back up my hand, casting the great aurora felt very good and cradle tapped for 20.
I have to make some adjustments, I changed out some cards from that list beforehand, and now Ill exchange another 2-3 cards and then it should be good.
From today on the new toy from EMN is also playable so Ill add that along with a hermit druid since I only have 6 basics right now and the mill will be good.
1x Azorius Guildgate
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boros Guildgate
1x Breeding Pool
1x Dark Depths
1x Deserted Temple
1x Diamond Valley
1x Dimir Guildgate
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Flooded Strand
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Golgari Guildgate
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Gruul Guildgate
1x Halls of Mist
1x Homeward Path
1x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Island of Wak-Wak
1x Izzet Guildgate
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Maze of Ith
1x Maze's End
1x Orzhov Guildgate
1x Polluted Delta
1x Rakdos Guildgate
1x Riftstone Portal
1x Savannah
1x Selesnya Guildgate
1x Simic Guildgate
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Island
1x Snow-Covered Plains
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Stomping Ground
1x Strip Mine
1x Taiga
1x Temple Garden
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Tropical Island
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Vesuva
1x Volcanic Island
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Explore
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Life from the Loam
1x Preordain
1x Regrowth
1x Scapeshift
1x Spontaneous Generation
1x Summer Bloom
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x Terminus
1x The Great Aurora
1x Timetwister
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Windfall
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Brainstorm
1x Crop Rotation
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Intuition
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Nature's Claim
1x Snap
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Amulet of Vigor
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Borborygmos Enraged
1x Centaur Vinecrasher
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Mina and Denn, Wildborn
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Sakura-Tribe Scout
1x The Gitrog Monster
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
1x Exploration
1x Prismatic Omen
1x Sylvan Library
1x Trade Routes
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/20-07-16-landsdec/
Right now I dont like the manabase, somethings off here.
I dont want to take out the janky lands that produce no mana - because lands.dec, right?? But are they needed anymore after all these creatures I added? Maybe hall of mist will go. And Island of Wak-Wak, you are so sweet, I dont want to cut you.
A few cards I consider if they will go because they probably wont do enough are Knight of the Reliquary (not enough plains & forests without Omen), Centaur Vinecrasher (will my graveyard ever be big enough, I think the card finds no support in this deck...)
Cradle is just too broken to not run it in a lands deck, everything above 1x G is great.
Iam open for every suggestion!
I ordered some more cards and Ill see what I can come up with.
I thought about adding more Token stuff to get something going, but my Prossh Deck is already doing that.
Also I didnt want to put all the Fetches/Duals in there as it seemed too easy and wanted to develop something janky but I think Ill have to end up with a mix of fetches, duals and karoo lands (not the slow fetches).
And Im not even sure how to kill anymore, as I started to build this deck I was very pleased with the possibilities but now Im just in a puddle of depression lol.
Anyways - what Ill be trying now is: More lands matter cards, faster lands, more card draw/wheels and as for Kill Conditions: Maze's End and...beatdown with something?
Cause right now Im just sitting there playing slow lands and get my ass beaten by creatures.
One of the guys I play with suggested a more graveyard based strategy with cards like Hermit Druid (he has a pretty good Gitrog Lands Deck so he has some experience there).
My deck is kinda like yours except I added a few more creatures like gitrog, keranos, dark confidant, mia and denn for the card advantage/land drops.
The liar lands are too slow and bad if you have no extra land drops, for the bounce I would play karoo lands since they dont decimate your mana.
This deck is not broken enough, somethings missing.
Its just a suggestion, I dont know how you like to play. I think youll see in playtesting what performs well and what doesnt and make the cut based on experience.
I dont like the "top creature card" condition on corpse dance + if you buyback it someone can thoughtseize you in their turn since they know what you're up to.
The buyback is super sweet, but its too vulnerable so I think Ill only use Gift just to upset everybody and casually make land drops.
Im still waiting for like 80 cards in the mail now - cant wait to start building this deck.
Josh from The Command Zone Podcast also noted on Twitter and in the podcast he wants to build a 5C lands.dec - im excited to see what he comes up with.
Sylvan is a real tutor that isn't disadvantage.
If you compare both, I think in this Deck Sylvan is just better - you have enough tutors for everything else you need.
I'll definitely will add Gift of Immortality - it looks just too good.
I like to look at all lists I can find when I build a deck and assamble something which I think has the best of all without trying to do everything at once and nothing of that right.
Ill post my list when I got all the cards together - should be by next week.
Oblivion Stone is very interesting. I might play it instead of a Cyclonic Rift. The problem is it wont get around indestructible Gods etc.
Still not sure about worm harvest. What can we do with these 1/1's except for jump blocking?
We cant feed them to anything, cant pump them, attacking seems useless...
I like the idea of trinket mage - I think I will add him to the 99.
What about Genesis Wave as a mass ramp card? I think we should hit a good amount of targets here since you can put the lands into play!?I see you already added it...Iam just building this deck and playing with some ideas...
My 5C Superfriends Deck showed huge improvements after adding creature hate to slow down my opponents.