As I commented on the SCD page for the Esper Karn... in before Esper Karn (I'm going to sig myself on that one).
Gonna love the Hipster comments thrown at me now when I defend why I play Karn when Esper Karn is "so much cooler, and has sweet tute's!"... you better believe I'll be spouting "psh I was playing Karn back before he had colors."
As with Burnt I agree that Esper Karn is definitely lazy, we deserve an artifact basic land, and an artifact that grants artifacts hexproof.
This card is literally Pandora's Box. Cool chrome aside, in a vacuum, the conduit has arguably one of the single most powerful effects in the game. In practice, it gets activated very seldomly.
The Pyxis seems underwhelming at first - but serves a role similar to the one my favorite win condition Ornate Kanzashi did - library exile-age.
It's First Activated Ability:
The pyxis is differrent, though - the obvious play is (while in combo mode) to remove all libraries and pass - hoping no one can force you to draw - and watch the table lose one by one before your next draw step. (In this scenario, Memory Jar or Mikokoro, Center of the Sea might be an emergency draw-the-game switch.)
Another use of it is to simply activate it's first ability every turn - especially to eat someone's Divining Top, or Vampiric Tutor target.
This can accidentally eat people's win conditions and combo pieces - you just want to ensure that you don't exile your Voltaic Construct in this process, though.
The second ability of the artifact is slightly more alluring, though: It's Second Activated Ability:
Wow. So...uhh...I guess we can...play everything ? Well, all the permanents at least.
If you get to this point with 60+ cards in everyone's pile and players don't outright scoop, just resolving this ability might make them want to.
Correct me if I'm wrong - all cards enter simultaneously but the active player determines what order triggers go onto the stack ? Or am I remembering that wrong ? Anyone an actual judge 'round here ?
In the process of your activations, you run the risk of someone stealing this (Word of Seizing) and using it's second ability - and while funny, it probably won't end up favorably for you - so just be warned.
So Why Should I Run This Thing ?
Well, once the combo has begun - it's hard to stop. It's a cheap win condition that (depending on your table) might keep you alive - until you exile the wrong guy's stuff.
It's cost is as cheap as it gets and can go to work first turn.
People might protect it if you look like you're only activating to find a specific card in your deck-they get all their juicy tidbits cheated into play for free also.
It can eat cards placed on top of the deck.
It seems like a card that could be fun - it adds some element of randomness to play.
It could create a situation where you win the game, play kingmaker, draw the game or use it's second ability to let the fates decide.
It can create strategic situations where all of someone's win conditions/combo pieces get exiled. This may not be fun for them.
Lastly - it seems like utter jank. Used properly here, it can be game-ending. But seriously - where else do ya think this thing's gettin' any play ? Seems like someone aughta give it a shot before it fades - lonely and forgotten - into the annals of terrible card oblivion.
Supplemental:
I know what you're thinking: "Yo, Gerb...I kinda like this card, but it's not as bonkers as the cards I typically dig. Whaddya got for me ?"
Ok, I'll hook ya up this one time - but just this time, ok ?
Crazy enough yet ? No ? Ok - those piles that each copy of the pyxis are starting to create ? Yeah - good luck keeping those straight until the game ends. Don't kill yourself.
This is hilarious. I was looking at the Pyxis but couldn't see the hilarity that would ensue if you gobbled up all libraries and then crapped them out for ess's and gee's. Such chaos.
Token producers like Coretapper can be copied, if I'm correct... Which means that Darksteel Reactor is going to get even more awesome (and you can copy it's ability, too... I hope).
Edit: If the Imprint mechanic is copiable, then Duplicant is going to be so beast with a copied Conjurer's Closet trigger.
No, you choose targets before costs are paid. That's why, for example, you can use wasteland on itself (choose target, then pay sac cost) and why you can't, conversely, sac codex shredder targeting itself.
I believe that this is correct, Burnt.
However, with the Salvaging Station out you get two things back, and that's enough to over look this ruling.
No future sight. I've always wanted a card that flips your (everyone's) library upside down. Not one card at a time - the whole thing. You'd now be drawing from what was the bottom. I've wanted this since Legends (field of dreams never really scratched my itch). When this effect happened, the now-top would be considered the top of your library.
It'd have cool interactions with scroll rack, top, top-of-the-deck-tutors additionally, miracles would be more obvious.
Don't misunderstand me I see that you want the whole deck inverted so that all cards are technically face up... I still maintain that it is technically a Future Sight type of effect as you play with the top card showing...
It most certainly would be awesome... SDT'ing would be a breeze, if not a little too revealing... and you could possibly save yourself from a Tunnel Vision (if the inversion spell/effect is instant) or recover Silver-butt from a tuck.
If someone goes to target all your junk with shattering spree and you have...say... an Akroma's memorial and a Karn out with a lot (or infinite) mana, can you animate all your artifacts in response to the shattering spree and have them be illegal targets upon resolution of the spree ?
I know shattering spree isnt as prevalent as the blue bounce and white exiling that hurts us the most. Having an artifact that says
"Cards may not be returned to their owner's hand from the battlefield"
is right up there on my list of dream cards. Right next to the artifact that says:
"Players invert their libraries
(To invert your library, you flip your library upside down. If this is the first time you've inverted your library, the top card should be face up.)"
As a Norin pilot, I'm very familiar with Shattering Spree... but yes, you could. I mean, this deck has immense protection from destroy effects, and enough recursion that it doesn't matter if it does get sent to the GY... it's getting back my key pieces. I put the Claws of Gix in my build just to be able to save key pieces if needs be... problems is I never am able to get to it fast enough.
You know what... as a realist that knows that they'll never print an artifact that gives artifacts Hexproof... I'd gladly take the one you came up with. Having a permanent out that makes it impossible to bounce other arts would be awesome (might screw with Erratic Portal though).
Explain the inversion idea a little more in depth for me though. You basically want a Future Sight for arts, if I'm reading you right? (I, too, would kill for a "play with top card revealed" artifact)
You want a colorless artifact that gives Hexproof? Similar to Swiftfoot Boots, or in mass quantity?
In my dreams it's just like the Darksteel Forge... but for Hexproof instead of Indestructible.
The only weakness, aside from fliers, that I've seen so far is the ability to remove my stuff by exiling, i.e. Return to Dust.
As I've tweaked my Karn towards a bit more combo-centric build, nothing sucks worse than having my Forge removed, or somebody copying my Forge when I have the Latice out.
If I they don't make something (and I'm willing to take spot-Hexproof like you mentioned... as long as it can target creature and non-creature artifacts) in RtR I may have to move Karn into the 99 and go back to running Hannah, Ship's Navigator just for Hanna's Custody and similar cards.
Couldn't he just one-shot you with rafiq the next turn, after you've only laid one land ? Am I missing something that everyone shuffles & starts over ? I though it was just you while everyone else keeps all the stuff they have (that likely just killed you) out.
Yes, he could have... but the Kaalia at my table decided to Hollowed Burial (His Kaalia had already been tucked and Rafiq was getting stupid). I never really recovered... but it was good stuff.
The main point of the story was that it is hilarious to actually see peoples face when it goes off... yeah... I'm way behind... but at least I'm no longer a threat and still alive.
C'mon RtR... gimme some colorless artifact Hexproofing.
Ah wow. That's a pretty amazing use for it ! After thinking about it, it only really helps when someone takes out all players (including themselves). A while back, I used to run platinum angel and won a couple of games where I Scarecrone'd her out of the graveyard.
I will say this though - people in my playgroups have wised up to these sorts of shenanigans and try to avoid taking themselves out in their own blaze of glory - making this harder to do around here. Anyone running an infinite damage win has adapted to follow my cue and run a glacial chasm to keep themselves from dying in that case.
I actually plaed it straight up one night and forgot about it, until I got one shotted by Rafiq... just to shuffle up and deal again. He was pissed.
Found a neat little card for s's and g's... that's best when flashed into play...
Lich's Mirror... I let an Azami player, palinchron into a killing-draw Blue Sun's Zenith, Just to flash it in (Vedalken Orrery) to win the game... the Azami player likes to go out with everybody else.
Ah, I'm pumped for Realms to come out... Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Kormus Bell + All is Dust (with the Forge out on our field) = a nice little comby I've been wanting to get out right.
I'm always wary of hand replacement effects that leave card on a card that can go to the graveyard and lose you the cards on top of it. That's why I was so surprised about the Cauldron.
So, I've noticed that we have a weakness against flying.
I'm testing General's Regalia to help against this. If we can't block it, why not redirect it onto an indestructible creature?
Coupled with a certain Artifact Creature that is very good at redirecting damage... and we have ourselves a nice little defensive package.
What say you?
Also, I've upped my proliferation package to include the Contagion Engine and Clasp, and Energy Chamber... so many things use Charge Counters in this deck it isn't funny... my favorite is the Everflowing Chalice just getting bigger and bigger.
Also I've added the Candles of Leng for some extra draw power. Yeah, it's kind of expensive to activate, but it always hits, and you don't need to worry about counters like the Serum Tank
Ah, word! I saw the "layaway" aspect, but the "extended hand" aspect was a little different.
My only worry would be people removing the darn thing after they see me load it up a few times.
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I enjoy decks that aren't used all that often, (hence my love for Gaka's Norin that I use as my main deck), and Karn fits the bill. He seems to be more honest than Arcum so I don't feel so bad if I do get off a nice combo.
Unfortunately the Darksteel Reactor combo is very hard to pull off as all of the pieces are hard to assemble quickly and can take some time. It's got mad swagger though.
Burntgerbil, after trying an Arcum build, and scrapping it due to the massive hate he brought, I built Karn using your list, and couldn't be happier. I made a few changes for personal and availability reasons. (I'm trying out a Darksteel Reactor &/or Magistrate's Scepter + Coretapper + Clock of Omens + Contagion Engine win con)
I have a question, though. After finally understanding how the Ice Cauldron works... what do you use it for? Maybe I don't understand it still.
This deck is a lot of fun. The ramp is hilarious. I just wish there was a way to get shroud/hexproof on our stuff.
Gonna love the Hipster comments thrown at me now when I defend why I play Karn when Esper Karn is "so much cooler, and has sweet tute's!"... you better believe I'll be spouting "psh I was playing Karn back before he had colors."
As with Burnt I agree that Esper Karn is definitely lazy, we deserve an artifact basic land, and an artifact that grants artifacts hexproof.
I'll still be playing mono-1.
This is hilarious. I was looking at the Pyxis but couldn't see the hilarity that would ensue if you gobbled up all libraries and then crapped them out for ess's and gee's. Such chaos.
Edit: If the Imprint mechanic is copiable, then Duplicant is going to be so beast with a copied Conjurer's Closet trigger.
This card is get.
I believe that this is correct, Burnt.
However, with the Salvaging Station out you get two things back, and that's enough to over look this ruling.
Don't misunderstand me I see that you want the whole deck inverted so that all cards are technically face up... I still maintain that it is technically a Future Sight type of effect as you play with the top card showing...
It most certainly would be awesome... SDT'ing would be a breeze, if not a little too revealing... and you could possibly save yourself from a Tunnel Vision (if the inversion spell/effect is instant) or recover Silver-butt from a tuck.
As a Norin pilot, I'm very familiar with Shattering Spree... but yes, you could. I mean, this deck has immense protection from destroy effects, and enough recursion that it doesn't matter if it does get sent to the GY... it's getting back my key pieces. I put the Claws of Gix in my build just to be able to save key pieces if needs be... problems is I never am able to get to it fast enough.
You know what... as a realist that knows that they'll never print an artifact that gives artifacts Hexproof... I'd gladly take the one you came up with. Having a permanent out that makes it impossible to bounce other arts would be awesome (might screw with Erratic Portal though).
Explain the inversion idea a little more in depth for me though. You basically want a Future Sight for arts, if I'm reading you right? (I, too, would kill for a "play with top card revealed" artifact)
In my dreams it's just like the Darksteel Forge... but for Hexproof instead of Indestructible.
The only weakness, aside from fliers, that I've seen so far is the ability to remove my stuff by exiling, i.e. Return to Dust.
As I've tweaked my Karn towards a bit more combo-centric build, nothing sucks worse than having my Forge removed, or somebody copying my Forge when I have the Latice out.
If I they don't make something (and I'm willing to take spot-Hexproof like you mentioned... as long as it can target creature and non-creature artifacts) in RtR I may have to move Karn into the 99 and go back to running Hannah, Ship's Navigator just for Hanna's Custody and similar cards.
Yes, he could have... but the Kaalia at my table decided to Hollowed Burial (His Kaalia had already been tucked and Rafiq was getting stupid). I never really recovered... but it was good stuff.
The main point of the story was that it is hilarious to actually see peoples face when it goes off... yeah... I'm way behind... but at least I'm no longer a threat and still alive.
C'mon RtR... gimme some colorless artifact Hexproofing.
I actually plaed it straight up one night and forgot about it, until I got one shotted by Rafiq... just to shuffle up and deal again. He was pissed.
Also... General's Regalia is my new love.
Lich's Mirror... I let an Azami player, palinchron into a killing-draw Blue Sun's Zenith, Just to flash it in (Vedalken Orrery) to win the game... the Azami player likes to go out with everybody else.
I'm always wary of hand replacement effects that leave card on a card that can go to the graveyard and lose you the cards on top of it. That's why I was so surprised about the Cauldron.
I'm testing General's Regalia to help against this. If we can't block it, why not redirect it onto an indestructible creature?
Coupled with a certain Artifact Creature that is very good at redirecting damage... and we have ourselves a nice little defensive package.
What say you?
Also, I've upped my proliferation package to include the Contagion Engine and Clasp, and Energy Chamber... so many things use Charge Counters in this deck it isn't funny... my favorite is the Everflowing Chalice just getting bigger and bigger.
Also I've added the Candles of Leng for some extra draw power. Yeah, it's kind of expensive to activate, but it always hits, and you don't need to worry about counters like the Serum Tank
Ahh, that changes a lot of things... I can definitely use this card.
My only worry would be people removing the darn thing after they see me load it up a few times.
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I enjoy decks that aren't used all that often, (hence my love for Gaka's Norin that I use as my main deck), and Karn fits the bill. He seems to be more honest than Arcum so I don't feel so bad if I do get off a nice combo.
Unfortunately the Darksteel Reactor combo is very hard to pull off as all of the pieces are hard to assemble quickly and can take some time. It's got mad swagger though.
I have a question, though. After finally understanding how the Ice Cauldron works... what do you use it for? Maybe I don't understand it still.
This deck is a lot of fun. The ramp is hilarious. I just wish there was a way to get shroud/hexproof on our stuff.