How I voted for kicks. I suppose in case someone wants to sway me off my opinions.
White: Restoration Angel - This card is so horribly outclassed in this format. The flicker is ok but really that effect is only worth 1-2 mana and its not likely that you will get to abuse this. The body its on is not worth the several additional mana in this case and its limitations even stops it from being relivant in a deck focused on angels. This card is good in 1v1 20 life formats but its terrible here.
Black: (I cheated and picked more than 4) Dark Confidant - I think this card is cool when it works but even when it does work its still in my mind mediocre. Its a card you need to curve into play with a very low curve deck. It is and always will be bad Phyrexian Arena for this format. Its only real positive is if you get it in your opening hand and this is assuming you have a very low curve. Disciple of Bolas - honestly, its not a bad effect but I just find a hard time justifying it in lists much anymore. Its fine it just feels a little clunky at times being sorcery speed. Green has a few effects like this but the advantage there tends to be that they cost less and or can be used at instant speed. The loss of tempo of some large creature and costing 4 mana often puts this as kind of a winmore effect as you go to mass rez for me. Obviously there are uses outside of that but I find it to be expensive and slow as well as cutting your own board position by some decent amount for black. Graveborn Muse - its fine, I just rarely see anyone play it. Its another phyrexian arena effect on legs which in my mind just makes it ok. Grave Titan - I just never really see anyone run it. I honestly can't recall the last time I saw one played. Massacre Wurm - It has always felt very niche to me. Yes the potential for it is huge but assuming someone has enough tokens for you to murder them, what the heck have they been doing and why are you still alive? Nirkana Revenant - cool effect, but it continues to fall off given its high cost and mostly feeling vanilla other than the increased mana production.
Green: Garruk Wildspeaker - he feels fragile to me. If he is drawn off of curve he feels like he dies too easily.
Colorless: Chromatic Lantern - its only good if you don't have a good landbase. I will give you that its wonderful if you don't have money and a good landbase but I hardly see a reason to ever consider it if you are running full ABU duals / fetchland capabilities. The card continues to get worse as they make more dual lands to boot.
Green noncreatures was by far the hardest one for me to decide on. That probably says more about the quality of the cards there.
I guess I just enjoy the irony of all this fuss over this resource of all things, while this site's true gold like the Stax Primer is now buried from sight barring some odd necromancy.
This list is obsolete though. Not because it wasn't good or maintained, but because the average commander today is way more idiosyncratic in its design, more specific in its end goals and has access to way more tools in the era of modern edh than in 2011. I feel like a list of generic 'best stuff' just isn't what most decks need anymore, whereas the hidden gems thread is still useful.
Lots of these cards are still very useful in the colors that can run them. Its somewhat hard to say that Eternal Witness can't make any green list for example and some of that is what this list is for. Sometimes if you want to double check that you aren't forgetting an easy include card in a list or if you are making a cut to a list this can be very useful. I am not saying you should build a deck based on a list like this but its a useful resource still. The point of keeping updates and voting going is to keep the resource relevant and up to date.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Actually, I was thinking that in the light of EDHREC being a thing now, this thread has been obsoleted. I assume the fundamental purpose of this thread was to list various 'goodstuff' cards that are worthy considerations for decks that can run them, like Demonic Tutor. Now that EDHREC provides that same function as well as providing aggregate lists, this thread seems superfluous. I could be wrong in my assumption, though.
And no, I don't think EDHREC has usurped the need for scoeri's excellent deck database. Looking at a specific, tuned list with possible commentary is very different than an aggregate of cards commonly run with a given commander.
I don't want to trash talk some other resource but I have not once found any useful information from EDHRec. I don't know if thats due to my preferred commander choices, playstyle, or experience with the format but I stopped trying to use them because I found they don't have a relivant way to weigh the information they are processing. In a lot of cases they are taking really junk lists and just adding them all in without taking any weight from if a deck is updated a lot, generates discussion, or is a primer of some sort. You get people who just fire off lists into the void and are added into EDHRec with seemingly equal weight.
I have on the other hand on occasion needed to fill a slot or two or make some changes and look through this list to see if anything strikes me or something obvious that would work for the deck.
There are pros and cons to forcing it to be more discussion and post based. There may be some who like to participate by voting but don't like to be harassed for their viewpoint. I can recall a few heated debates it seems like when we got to black for a few different cards including but not limited to some cards like Dark Confidant. With how the previous system ran it did take someone to nominate and support it but the advantage is that someone who primarily just read content here on salvation could still participate without the fear of interaction that sometimes comes from voicing your opinion that might not be the popular opinion.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I just want to point out that assuming you keep the previous system in place where you do two weeks per selection and do noncreatures / creatures as seperate it takes...
5 colors * 2 weeks per selection * 2 creatures / noncreatures = 20 weeks
Colorless * 2 weeks per section * 2 for creatures / non + multicolored * 2 weeks per section * 2 for creatures / non + lands * 2 weeks per section
This adds up to 26 weeks to run. 365 days per year / 7 days per week = 52.14 weeks / year. It takes 26 weeks to run through all of the top 50 list so if you plan to do it more than once a year with the old system, you have already turned into it running nonstop. If you change the system to run somehow differently than it was all of this is thrown out the window but I figured I would point out that as it was either you run it once a year and it runs half the year to run or you run it nonstop.
Sorry for going silent out of nowhere everyone. The mods have been discussing the Top 50 list for the last few months and there are concerns on two fronts
We have had some issues being consistent in maintaining the top 50 list. This is on us so we appologize to users for this. There have been gaps and delays in our updating the thread as well as getting polls up.
We are not seeing the community involvement that we would like to be making the changes. In a lot of cases our polls were getting like 10 people participating at best and our ability to nominate cards has been very questionable due to this.
What we would like to do for now is take a break until the next set releases. We dont know if this will improve anything but we had been discussing taking a break of some sort for this thread. Its possible that we consider some sort of system of bringing up voting twice a year and going through the list twice a year for changes. We are open to suggestions at this time if you would like to make some but we feel that having a continuous always active thread has in some ways burned some users out on the top 50 list. What we ultimately want is to be able to update this thread and to get community involvement when we do go to update it.
So.... our apologies for the delay. If you would like to discuss how we proceed we are open to ideas.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Usually it comes down to if you have something better to do. If you dont have something better to do it will still in a lot of cases make other people play around it in the early game. I dont play competitive commander so I cant really comment there. If a meta is a fast meta then playing Mystic Remora will either slow them down or draw you a bunch of cards immediately so its probably less concerning.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I think Bribery is not as strong as it used to be. There is a high chance, that you will either not find a good target or it will end up under it's owners controll very soon.
Dig Through Time is very situational. The effect is not worth 5 mana, so you need to exile at least 5 cards. Against GY hate this will be a dead card.
I'll nominatePull from Tomorrow which is a much more flexible draw spell at instant speed.
Mystic Remora is such a great card. I don't understand any of you that voted against it! Play it early and draw from every Sol ring / Signet / Talisman. Play it later and again, draw a *** load of cards!
Bribery is in fact weaker than it used to be. In a lot of cases powerhouse cards like Primeval Titan and Sylvan Primordial have been banned. Homeward Path is also a thing and the more cheap disruption your opponents play the more you will be forced to take an ETB effect. Even with getting a little weaker because of bans in the last few years, its still probably worth about 7 mana for what it does so I would say its still a very strong card.
Dig Through Time - I cant disagree more. I think its worth about 6 mana as a spell assuming it did not have delve. It is an instant after all and its effect with selection is very strong. Keep in mind against graveyard hate that you can respond to it and they cannot respond to you delving. In a lot of ways it actually gets stronger when your opponents use grave hate because it means you can sac everything into it being cheap. Going even deeper, its tech against opponents utilizing reanimation on your own creatures as you can delve through your own graveyard say in response to a Necromancy targeting something in your graveyard.
Mystic Remora - I would argue that its a card thats actually much better the faster the meta is moving. In a lot of cases it gets less good when you start getting to the point where people have like 10+ lands in play. Its less likely to get swept in the early game and its hard to play through its effect if you have a fast mana hand. The catch to this card is that if people in your meta are just slow playing creatures then you can put it up early and then it sits there for like 5 turns drawing you like a card while keeping your mana on lockdown and letting opponents play their commanders and creatures through it no problem. Its a little similar to Rhystic Study in that it hits the hardest when played early but has some awkwardness in that it gets harder to keep around on its own accord. I think its a great card but honestly I think it depends a TON on what your meta is and looks like because where it might be literally the bees knees in one meta it might suck in another.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Are we nominating for blue non-creatures now? If so, I would like to nominate Summary Dismissal. I've tested this card in over 100 games now, and I must say it is insanely great. It just deals with so much and EXILES on top of it. I've found it to be near if not just as much of an include as Cyclonic Rift and cryptic command in any deck that runs blue and isn't speed combo/speed reanimator. This card is a blue all star every time you draw it.
We are doing week 2 of Blue creatures right now. This week will just be the decision as to what blue creatures will be on the list. Next week we can nominate blue non creatures.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
White:
Restoration Angel - This card is so horribly outclassed in this format. The flicker is ok but really that effect is only worth 1-2 mana and its not likely that you will get to abuse this. The body its on is not worth the several additional mana in this case and its limitations even stops it from being relivant in a deck focused on angels. This card is good in 1v1 20 life formats but its terrible here.
Black: (I cheated and picked more than 4)
Dark Confidant - I think this card is cool when it works but even when it does work its still in my mind mediocre. Its a card you need to curve into play with a very low curve deck. It is and always will be bad Phyrexian Arena for this format. Its only real positive is if you get it in your opening hand and this is assuming you have a very low curve.
Disciple of Bolas - honestly, its not a bad effect but I just find a hard time justifying it in lists much anymore. Its fine it just feels a little clunky at times being sorcery speed. Green has a few effects like this but the advantage there tends to be that they cost less and or can be used at instant speed. The loss of tempo of some large creature and costing 4 mana often puts this as kind of a winmore effect as you go to mass rez for me. Obviously there are uses outside of that but I find it to be expensive and slow as well as cutting your own board position by some decent amount for black.
Graveborn Muse - its fine, I just rarely see anyone play it. Its another phyrexian arena effect on legs which in my mind just makes it ok.
Grave Titan - I just never really see anyone run it. I honestly can't recall the last time I saw one played.
Massacre Wurm - It has always felt very niche to me. Yes the potential for it is huge but assuming someone has enough tokens for you to murder them, what the heck have they been doing and why are you still alive?
Nirkana Revenant - cool effect, but it continues to fall off given its high cost and mostly feeling vanilla other than the increased mana production.
Green:
Garruk Wildspeaker - he feels fragile to me. If he is drawn off of curve he feels like he dies too easily.
Colorless:
Chromatic Lantern - its only good if you don't have a good landbase. I will give you that its wonderful if you don't have money and a good landbase but I hardly see a reason to ever consider it if you are running full ABU duals / fetchland capabilities. The card continues to get worse as they make more dual lands to boot.
Green noncreatures was by far the hardest one for me to decide on. That probably says more about the quality of the cards there.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I will support Rishkar's Expertise and The Immortal Sun.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I would say that zombie creature type on Fleshbag makes that statement false.
Looking at the current standard I also see a few other potentials:
I am not sure I like any of them enough for me to nominate any of them though as of right now.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Lots of these cards are still very useful in the colors that can run them. Its somewhat hard to say that Eternal Witness can't make any green list for example and some of that is what this list is for. Sometimes if you want to double check that you aren't forgetting an easy include card in a list or if you are making a cut to a list this can be very useful. I am not saying you should build a deck based on a list like this but its a useful resource still. The point of keeping updates and voting going is to keep the resource relevant and up to date.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I don't want to trash talk some other resource but I have not once found any useful information from EDHRec. I don't know if thats due to my preferred commander choices, playstyle, or experience with the format but I stopped trying to use them because I found they don't have a relivant way to weigh the information they are processing. In a lot of cases they are taking really junk lists and just adding them all in without taking any weight from if a deck is updated a lot, generates discussion, or is a primer of some sort. You get people who just fire off lists into the void and are added into EDHRec with seemingly equal weight.
I have on the other hand on occasion needed to fill a slot or two or make some changes and look through this list to see if anything strikes me or something obvious that would work for the deck.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
5 colors * 2 weeks per selection * 2 creatures / noncreatures = 20 weeks
Colorless * 2 weeks per section * 2 for creatures / non + multicolored * 2 weeks per section * 2 for creatures / non + lands * 2 weeks per section
This adds up to 26 weeks to run. 365 days per year / 7 days per week = 52.14 weeks / year. It takes 26 weeks to run through all of the top 50 list so if you plan to do it more than once a year with the old system, you have already turned into it running nonstop. If you change the system to run somehow differently than it was all of this is thrown out the window but I figured I would point out that as it was either you run it once a year and it runs half the year to run or you run it nonstop.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
What we would like to do for now is take a break until the next set releases. We dont know if this will improve anything but we had been discussing taking a break of some sort for this thread. Its possible that we consider some sort of system of bringing up voting twice a year and going through the list twice a year for changes. We are open to suggestions at this time if you would like to make some but we feel that having a continuous always active thread has in some ways burned some users out on the top 50 list. What we ultimately want is to be able to update this thread and to get community involvement when we do go to update it.
So.... our apologies for the delay. If you would like to discuss how we proceed we are open to ideas.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Bribery is in fact weaker than it used to be. In a lot of cases powerhouse cards like Primeval Titan and Sylvan Primordial have been banned. Homeward Path is also a thing and the more cheap disruption your opponents play the more you will be forced to take an ETB effect. Even with getting a little weaker because of bans in the last few years, its still probably worth about 7 mana for what it does so I would say its still a very strong card.
Dig Through Time - I cant disagree more. I think its worth about 6 mana as a spell assuming it did not have delve. It is an instant after all and its effect with selection is very strong. Keep in mind against graveyard hate that you can respond to it and they cannot respond to you delving. In a lot of ways it actually gets stronger when your opponents use grave hate because it means you can sac everything into it being cheap. Going even deeper, its tech against opponents utilizing reanimation on your own creatures as you can delve through your own graveyard say in response to a Necromancy targeting something in your graveyard.
Mystic Remora - I would argue that its a card thats actually much better the faster the meta is moving. In a lot of cases it gets less good when you start getting to the point where people have like 10+ lands in play. Its less likely to get swept in the early game and its hard to play through its effect if you have a fast mana hand. The catch to this card is that if people in your meta are just slow playing creatures then you can put it up early and then it sits there for like 5 turns drawing you like a card while keeping your mana on lockdown and letting opponents play their commanders and creatures through it no problem. Its a little similar to Rhystic Study in that it hits the hardest when played early but has some awkwardness in that it gets harder to keep around on its own accord. I think its a great card but honestly I think it depends a TON on what your meta is and looks like because where it might be literally the bees knees in one meta it might suck in another.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
We are doing week 2 of Blue creatures right now. This week will just be the decision as to what blue creatures will be on the list. Next week we can nominate blue non creatures.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies