...I'm a blue player and I want this banned. The only problem with dream halls is that it creates card disadvantage the cards you play have to count more than omniscience. Omniscience allows you to set up and dig way easier than dream halls. Sure dream halls comes down faster, but the actual execution of the spells is harder to pull off, you have less of a margin of error. Omniscience just doesn't whiff nearly as hard.
So what?
If I want to combo, there are a dozen easier and better things to do than to cast an enchantment I can hardly tutor, cheat into play or recur.
If a blue player wants to combo, you are better off with Dream Halls since you will combo in turn 5.
If you just build a random blue-deck, than you are playing the colour wrong.
And that's just mono-blue! Adding more colours to your deck only increases the other/better possibilities.
Am I going to add this to my deck? Yes.
Because it's overpowered? No, because it's exactely as strong as you should expect from a 10-mana card and it's fun to see it hit play.
I highly suggest you read the card and then look at all the good EDH staple spells. You'll notice that omniscience basically takes every good EDH spell and makes them cost 0 mana. Out of all the big spells in EDH, this is now the most powerful out of all of them. There is no reason to dismiss it because nothing compares to it's power level.
That means Erase is the second-best magic card ever, because it destroys the best magic card ever? :')
So this is stronger than Genesis Wave? Better than Prime Titan, Primal Surge or Tooth and Nail?
Dream halls is no wear near this card's power level. It's miles behind now. Dream halls gives your opponents the ability to discard cards to cast spells for free as well as you. That's crap compared to omniscience.
Dream Halls is crap compared to this? Did you ever play that card right?
Who cares about the effect, you are probably winning this turn anyway.
Well, what can you expect from someone claiming that nothing reaches Omniscience's powerlevel..
Coalition victory is banned and battle of wits does not work in EDH, try it, will never work. Besides you need to wait a whole turn for battle of wits to work if it could work. Those are not comparable.
Barren glory needs to be built around.
I am not comparing those, learn to read.
What I did was point out how those LITERALLY said that "you win the game".
Omniscience only requires that you have cards that do stuff and it practically breaks draw spells. This card wont lead to fun times EDH, the only thing it will lead to is sour endings, that's it, there's no in betweens or interactivity with this card.
Cry me a river.
I am soooo sorry that your Tooth and Nail wins now have competition in green.
But I get your point! How does a non-green deck even dare to win the game?
Omniscience resolves, cast spells, win. It's that simple. That's playing it the fair way. I cast this, dropped an augur of bolas, drew into fact or fiction, cast fact or fiction into time reversal, and proceeded to just play cards, and recur time walks. This card literally just wins the game and turns every counterspell in your hand into a force of will. This breaks walk of the aeons in half, who needs lands?
It doesn't literally win the game.
Barren Glory
Battle of Wits
Coalition Victory
ETC
They win the game literally, this one doesn't.
If you want to get really techy, play a rector, then wrath the board, then time walk a few times draw cards, and Armageddon.
I used to run time stretch, now there's not point because omniscience does so so much more then time stretch ever could. So what if you blow it up, grats, there's the 98 other cards that never needed omniscience to work. This thing literally combos with non land cards at no cost. Dream halls has a cost, mind over matter is more comparable but is much more narrow. The only reason I see this card not warping the format is because people are dismissing it because of its CMC.
People are 'dismissing' it because there are far more powerful cards that "literally" win the game too.
We wouldn't want to have decks with big spells that can win the game that aren't green? Oh no, the horror!
People complain about spot-removal? Oooh God >.<
Counters and LD I can slightly understand. It's a great way of dealing with degenerate stuff, but most of the time it's used to grief people.
But spot removal? Seriously?
I'd love to see how many people would complain if this was green and slightly different. I feel most of the "OMG ITS KILLING THE GAME! PANIC!" stuff is because the card is blue and hating blue is the easy thing to do.
Perhaps Omniscience won't be a problem in the neckbeard circles, but outside of combo-driven racing games, it's making games consistently miserable.
But Omniscience is a combo if you use it like that.
If you don't want people to play combo, you shouldn't let them play this enchantment either.
There are other combo's besides infinite stuff!
No, I'm not building around it. The most I would ever build around is rector. The rest are simply powerful cards that are used on their own and don't need omniscience to be good. That would not happen with dream halls.
Not in your deck.
The point is that Dream Halls is just as abusable in the right deck.
But what do you want now?
Do you want the card banned?
:') Calm down, guy.
But tell me: Infinite turns and 30 cards you draw? How? Are you building your entire deck around one enchantment? Do you have any idea how hard you will lose if you don't get it?
That will also happen with Dream Halls, a good player with a good deck can abuse Dream Halls as easily (of not better) than Omniscience.
Oh yes, your opponents can also cast stuff for free.
That does not matter, you are going to win anyway!
Okay. So let me get this straight.
You play in a group practically devoid of blue, and half of those rare blue decks don't run counters?
And you're looking at me, implying that I don't know what I'm talking about because my group doesn't like infinite combos?
No? I'm saying there are easier things to pull off to win the game.
Therefor I also think Omniscience shouldn't be banned, but I admit it's a strong card.
You must be confusing me for someone else.
A half decent blue deck can stop a combo deck in its tracks AND win simultaneously. Please, don't talk about 32 mana Genesis Waves. Your Boseju is getting Strip Mined, bounced, or your Genesis Wave is being redirected, Commandeered, or Time Stopped-- if one of us hasn't won already. If you have Boseju, that is.
Redirecting Wave? Seems hard to do.
But you are losing me now, I have no idea what you are talking about.. Boseiju? It hardly sees play in our group and I am glad for it.
Hmm, that's a 32 mana spent. And someone doesn't have a counterspell?
Not always, we don't have many blue-players.
In our regular group we have 6 blue decks.
3 don't play counters since they are very light on blue and the other 2 are mine.
It's usually easier to destroy the Memorial and then kill the dudes.
Or Knowledge Exploitation for an Insurrection and show the player what we think about Genesis Wave.
Just won again, 5 player game. Omniscience FTW. Insane card, everyone calling for ban over here.
Maybe you should post a decklist once.
And what the hell is the rest of the table doing?
It seems like your deck is all about blowing everything up and kicking ass with Planeswalkers. You don't need Omniscience to win.
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Palinchron is a pain, but Genny wave isn't so much the problem as much as it is the recursion and copying and tripling of it (though it is a worse offender than Primal Surge) and Primal Surge requires so much building around it to be super effective that most of the time it's not worth it imo.
Genesis Wave not a problem?
Reveal top 30 cards, play Akroma's Memorial and win.
That's what it usually does.
As far as I can remember, we never recurred or copied it.
Maybe it's just meta-dependant, like our yjtrr mono-G decks that don't even have to run tons of spells and had Primal Surge as an auto-include.
I agree, I don't think it's bannable. I just don't like people saying this card is flashy, win-more, not worth the cost, etc... especially when they're not even running it.
Exactely how I think about it
People saying it is weak shouldn't just randomly put it in their decks.
But it's not banworthy when we have stuff like Palinchron, Genesis Wave and Primal Surge.
It's really good in jhoira and could be good in storm combo but outside of that it requires too much work to be really good. Tooth and nail wins you the game instantly for 1 mana more and only requires you to give up 3 deck slots. This requires you to heavily build around it for it to be most effective.
Tooth and Nail is 1 mana cheaper
But I agree with the rest.
Card kinda needs to get banned. Its an insane enabler thats extremely one sided.
Palinchron isn't banned and that one is easier to abuse.
People are overreacting.
I've used it in Azami, and it was awesome.
It was exactely as awesome as you would want from a 10 mana Mythic.
Primal Surge has ended more games than this card will ever do, so did Genesis Wave.
And those two cards even help you with the drawing.
But this enchantment won't be much of a use when you don't have stuff to get cards in your hand.
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So what?
If I want to combo, there are a dozen easier and better things to do than to cast an enchantment I can hardly tutor, cheat into play or recur.
If a blue player wants to combo, you are better off with Dream Halls since you will combo in turn 5.
If you just build a random blue-deck, than you are playing the colour wrong.
And that's just mono-blue! Adding more colours to your deck only increases the other/better possibilities.
Am I going to add this to my deck? Yes.
Because it's overpowered? No, because it's exactely as strong as you should expect from a 10-mana card and it's fun to see it hit play.
That means Erase is the second-best magic card ever, because it destroys the best magic card ever? :')
So this is stronger than Genesis Wave? Better than Prime Titan, Primal Surge or Tooth and Nail?
Dream Halls is crap compared to this? Did you ever play that card right?
Who cares about the effect, you are probably winning this turn anyway.
Well, what can you expect from someone claiming that nothing reaches Omniscience's powerlevel..
I am not comparing those, learn to read.
What I did was point out how those LITERALLY said that "you win the game".
Cry me a river.
I am soooo sorry that your Tooth and Nail wins now have competition in green.
But I get your point! How does a non-green deck even dare to win the game?
It doesn't literally win the game.
Barren Glory
Battle of Wits
Coalition Victory
ETC
They win the game literally, this one doesn't.
People are 'dismissing' it because there are far more powerful cards that "literally" win the game too.
We wouldn't want to have decks with big spells that can win the game that aren't green? Oh no, the horror!
I am gonna use High Tide or Gauntlet of Power in a mono-blue deck
It's not the 'best possible way' if it requires 2 unique cards in a 99-cardpool.
Counters and LD I can slightly understand. It's a great way of dealing with degenerate stuff, but most of the time it's used to grief people.
But spot removal? Seriously?
Oh no, you can only play 20 cards for free
That's still easier to set-up than Omniscience.
Primal Surge?
Green and only slightly different.
But Omniscience is a combo if you use it like that.
If you don't want people to play combo, you shouldn't let them play this enchantment either.
There are other combo's besides infinite stuff!
Not in your deck.
The point is that Dream Halls is just as abusable in the right deck.
But what do you want now?
Do you want the card banned?
But tell me: Infinite turns and 30 cards you draw? How? Are you building your entire deck around one enchantment? Do you have any idea how hard you will lose if you don't get it?
That will also happen with Dream Halls, a good player with a good deck can abuse Dream Halls as easily (of not better) than Omniscience.
Oh yes, your opponents can also cast stuff for free.
That does not matter, you are going to win anyway!
No? I'm saying there are easier things to pull off to win the game.
Therefor I also think Omniscience shouldn't be banned, but I admit it's a strong card.
You must be confusing me for someone else.
Redirecting Wave?
But you are losing me now, I have no idea what you are talking about.. Boseiju? It hardly sees play in our group and I am glad for it.
Not always, we don't have many blue-players.
In our regular group we have 6 blue decks.
3 don't play counters since they are very light on blue and the other 2 are mine.
It's usually easier to destroy the Memorial and then kill the dudes.
Or Knowledge Exploitation for an Insurrection and show the player what we think about Genesis Wave.
But the same question could be asked to you.
Maybe you should post a decklist once.
And what the hell is the rest of the table doing?
It seems like your deck is all about blowing everything up and kicking ass with Planeswalkers. You don't need Omniscience to win.
And how many games did you lose?
Genesis Wave not a problem?
Reveal top 30 cards, play Akroma's Memorial and win.
That's what it usually does.
As far as I can remember, we never recurred or copied it.
Maybe it's just meta-dependant, like our yjtrr mono-G decks that don't even have to run tons of spells and had Primal Surge as an auto-include.
Exactely how I think about it
People saying it is weak shouldn't just randomly put it in their decks.
But it's not banworthy when we have stuff like Palinchron, Genesis Wave and Primal Surge.
Tooth and Nail is 1 mana cheaper
But I agree with the rest.
Palinchron isn't banned and that one is easier to abuse.
People are overreacting.
I've used it in Azami, and it was awesome.
It was exactely as awesome as you would want from a 10 mana Mythic.
Primal Surge has ended more games than this card will ever do, so did Genesis Wave.
And those two cards even help you with the drawing.
But this enchantment won't be much of a use when you don't have stuff to get cards in your hand.