I never really got to play with Werebear before. Would anyone like to give me some pointers on decks he would like to be in the most? Threshold seems like an awkward thing to attain.
Also, I saw the Peasant group mentioned Nest Invader. How do we feel about this card now that it's been some time since it's release. I always felt we preferred the T1 dorks into bigger plays, but could we appreciate a one time mana boost to accel into maybe a 4 or 5 drop while getting a bear in the process?
This one thing that jumped out at me immediately was the synergy with morbid. Securing that death and turning on a Festerhide Boar or Brimstone Volley could be pretty clutch. Otherwise, the extra body could do some other work, like carry equipment, or just chumping out for a turn. Thoughts?
Oh yeah, it is listed second on the actual card. I was going off how they ordered it for the oracle text, where they put it third to allow for some reminder text.
Thanks for the explanation though! Seems like a nifty card where I wonder if it's any good. I guess it depends on how useful combat tricking with phasing could be, since Leap or Shadow Rift do the evasion + cantrip better.
Maybe I'll give it a little test run and see how I like it.
Can I get some clarification on Sapphire Charm? I was looking at the third ability, and I'm not sure I completely understand how phasing works. If I cast this on my opponent's turn choosing mode three, will the creature I target immediately phase out negating any potential attack if I do it before combat? And does it stay phased out for my next turn removing it as a blocker?
I find Mogg Fanatic to be one of the more interesting cards in Pauper red. It actually has a bit of flexibility to it being a creature, rather than being a straight-up burn spell. Attacking, [chump] blocking, holding equipment, pinging random 1 toughness dorks, or helping out a wee bit by "flinging" itself towards the dome. For a one mana card, it certainly offers a lot of options and potential lines of play, and I value that in a card.
Even as a 1/1, I like what it does for the cube, so I'll try to accommodate it by manipulating other aspects of my cube (like running a 3/1 over a 2/3 as an example). It's all part of that crazy, organic feeling that goes into cube design and balance.
I am most intrigued by Zhur-Taa Swine. Quick poll- Which card do you think is better: Zhur-Taa Swine or Deadshot Minotaur?
I'll probably be making the change over to the pig. I've been running Deadshot Minotaur for a little while now and think it's and okay card, but my group agrees that the body feels weak at that mana. The anti-flier ETB isn't always relevant either, and depressing when staring down things like Ephemeron or Stitched Drake. I'm guessing Zhur-Taa Swine will end up as a stronger card considering how aggressive our RG decks normally are. The extra damage from the pump can be huge at the right time, or using it as a Fire Elemental shouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
I think most of the new Gatecrash mechanics have a lot of potential. Evolve could be great on the right creature, but might end up lackluster in pauper. Stats can often feel like a battle of the 2's and 3's, so depending on the evolving creature's initial stats, it may not see a lot of change.
Extort seems interesting for the decks that can afford the extra cost. I doubt drain 1 will be worth it on its own though, so the cube-worthiness will likely depend an awful lot of the other attributes of the card.
Battalion is probably the one I care for the least at the moment. Requiring the multiple attackers isn't too exciting and I'm not sure what to expect for an effect if it's on a common. I just can imagine it being very strong. Maybe something cool will come out though.
Bloodrush feels like it has a lot of potential just because it adds some nice versatility to the cards. Could start slapping this on any old, pauper vanilla common and maybe they will start looking a lot more playable. Guess it depends on how they balance the costs and stats between the creature and bloodrush though. I'm sure something will have to be overpriced to offset the versatility.
GW aggro: This is a different deck. It runs a very large number of dudes, along with about 5 or so ways to get the damage in (Blinding Beam or Travel Preparations, for example). I normally run minimal or no removal in this deck because you can generally power through and win the race without removal. There are'nt that many big roadblock threats in the cube, and very few that can't just be trumped by a Rancor.
This is a deck I've actually been trying to draft more often lately. I picked up Attended Knight and Travel Preparations in a draft one night, and proceeded to go Knight into next turn Prep+flashback a couple games which is a glorious matching of cards in my opinion. Been slightly hooked ever since.
I also prefer Skyhunter over Aven Squire too, but the WW cost has been an concern among some of my members. One even asked why we didn't have Mistral Charger which I'm assuming was based off Stormfront Pegasus being a real card.
I'm sure this has been discussed already (this thread is huge) and perhaps it's a bad time to try and talk about something other than spoilers now that RTR is approaching so soon, but I was wondering what are some of the most played deck archetypes that see play within your cubes/playgroups? Maybe even go ahead and explain differences you find in decks that show up consistently versus a deck that maybe is the "best" but has difficulty showing up for various reasons. Or just go ahead and say which is your favorite to play, I'd love to hear about it.
In my own little group, we've seen a rise in UR and UB Tempo decks that have been really strong lately. Was actually interesting to notice this over time since the UB combination seemed to evolve from a previously popular UW "Fliers" color combination. Guess we realized black provided a lot of sweet disruption elements. (A highlight of tonight was one of our players putting a little temporary lock on some of us with Cavern Harpy and Chittering Rats a couple of games. Felt pretty cool to have something like that happen in pauper.)
That's just the recent hot decks, but we usually see typical aggro decks as well. Probably Boros and RB Aggro as the most common. Throw burn in anything and it seems to get better. After that, I'd say a WB "Evasion" deck fairs pretty well. Green likes to show up from time to time to support these colors too, mainly red or white, but it seems to dance a fine line between staying aggro or shifting the deck build closer towards midrange for us (more with white than red).
Speaking of midrange, we have a strong showing of BG "Value" and UG Ramp here. Fun decks, with BG being one of my favorites. I also tend to end up UG a lot of the time as well, which is odd because I don't particularly want to. Just tend to pick strong cards like Capsize or Mulldrifter and the next thing I know I'm grabbing ramp and I'm in the deck. There's also the BW Pestilence deck here (or is it control?), but as a group we struggle to put it together consistently. Guess the pieces are fought over by too many decks/colors, but it feels really strong when the pieces do fall into place.
Control itself is actually one of our weaker points as a group, but that's a personal playstyle problem with us. I'd say most, if not all of us, are aggro players at heart so that's what we tend to try and pick right away. I'm probably the one who drafts control the most, and it's more because everyone is cutting each other nice aggro cards and I'm picking up nice control spells. Our best seems to be UB Control, often shifting into Grixis Control when something nice like Firebolt or Strangling Soot comes by where you go, "Yeah, I can splash for that." We had UW Control be a thing for a while, but after a couple of key changes, it's not quite as common anymore. It's more likely that the UB transitions into Esper if white gets played in the control archetype.
I'll cut this here as it's getting quite long. So as I first asked, what are the kind of decks you often see and like to play in your own cubes? I'm curious to see how similar or different it might be between each other.
I like to have as many different mechanics/keywords in the cube if possible, so I tend to view everything as fair game for inclusion. Seeing the vast history and a diverse set of cards is a major reason I enjoy cubing so much. However, I won't dig too deep to include outright terrible cards just to fit in a keyword I'm missing. Same thing for keywords that require a critical mass of cards to actually work, like most tribal based mechanics or infect. At that point, I feel like I'm sacrificing too many slots for this narrow subset of cards and begin losing that diversity I love so much.
Adding errata is a way to work around some parasitic mechanics and cards if you're into that it seems. I've read up on the "rebelizing" of cubes which is a neat idea to push a specific theme without sacrificing too many slots. Feels like you could do similar things for anything if you really wanted to, but potentially get too complex if you go overboard with errata. Overall, this isn't something I'm really into as I'm kind of a MTG purist and like using the cards as they're intended.
I had the Affinity Golem group in the early iterations of my cube. Tangle Golem pretty much got cut right away as I feel there are just better things in green now. Oxidda Golem was next, because I just didn't care about the later game cost reduction and it felt no better than a Vulshok Berserker in our Rx aggro decks.
This leaves the Spire, Dross, and Razor the ones I still like most in today's pauper cube world. Evasion for both the blue and black ones, and the cost reduction really helps on the Spire Golem for controlling blue decks. Razor Golem has a decent sized body and vigilance isn't too bad for attacking and defensive scenarios so I still find it playable with the rest of the white cards too.
I had a similar feeling with Izor where Wingcrafter didn't seem like it should be that good. I thought it was a fine card, but hearing people regard it so highly didn't seem right to me. However, after thinking about it a little bit, I'm starting to agree. In general, I think Soulbond is one of the greatest mechanics to come out of Magic in my opinion. It offers a nice level of complexity on the game when it's focused around combat, which pauper limited is pretty much all about. It presents a lot of options requiring a set of in-game decisions that need to be made. Which creature to soulbond, when do you soulbond, are you attacking properly with soulbond, or even knowing if you're answering soulbond correctly when sitting across from it at the table.
Wingcrafter can be a great example of all of these. We talk about worrying about blowouts occuring, but this seems to be a point where smart play should be a factor. Worst case, you attack into an opponent's board and removal hits the paired creature and some insignificant blockers takes out the now 1/1 Wingcrafter. Ouch. However, when you just use Wingcrafter as an enabler, you present the opponent with more options to answer. Does he remove the enabler to remove flying and potentially just trade with your attacking creature? He could, but then we're looking at some form of removal used on a 1-drop, and a creature trade. That doesn't seem like a terrible trade-off. Otherwise, the opponent uses removal on the paired creature and you're left with an enabler and just pair up the next threat.
That's only when you're playing around unknown information too. When you reach points where you know the opponent can't interact with you (tapped out, no cards in hand, etc), you're free to swing away with your X-amount of evasive power. Looks like a great card I'm willing to test out myself now.
Thanks to those who replied. Gives me something to think about.
Wormfang Drake and Daru Lancer were pretty much on their way out, just wondering how others felt about the few cards I had laying around to replace them with. I do have Thalakos Scout in by the way Izor, so I'm not sure what I'll end up replacing Drake with, but I'll find something.
I'll also have to highly consider getting Grazing Gladehart in there, as one of my players loves the card, but I've always been a fan of my Centaur-esque beaters. I'll probably compromise to get the antelope in there though, as I have no real problem with the card.
Suq'Ata Lancer and Ronin Houndmaster have very selfish abilities though. While it may not be beneficial to block them early, it doesn't stop the opponent from blocking other creatures. Plus, Fervent Cathar gets a little late game potential if opponents try to hide behind a single creature, or hide behind a piece of fat. Just remove them from the picture for a turn and swing away.
I could see myself considering the three cards roughly equal. Flanking, bushido, or a single Falter all have their pros and cons, but each are various ways of disrupting the opponent's blocking options. Although, maybe having a sustained effect puts the other two a little ahead of the Cathar.
This actually leads me into a question of my own. I hate to use this thread for a "personal" cube matter, but individual cube lists pages seem to see way less traffic than this thread. I'm looking at some card comparisons that may eventually lead to some additions of cuts of my own cube. Just wondering how others feel about these cards. "+" means I'm looking at it as an addition while "-" would be a cut.
-Wormfang Drake vs. +Scroll Thief: Blue doesn't seem need so many resilient beaters at three, with Stitched Drake and Stormbound Geist recently entering the picture. Getting blown out to removal felt awful as well hinting the Drake's time may have passed.
-Claustrophobia vs. +Undo: I actually kind of like both, but what do others prefer? Or would you cut Wormfang Drake to keep both?
+Soulcage Fiend vs. -Ravenous Skirge or Skittering Horror: Aggressive black cards fighting over each other? Skittering Horror probably doesn't belong in the comparison, but I'd like to know what others' think about him. However, Ravenous Skirge and the Demon seem very comparable. Skirge is terrible on defense, but flies. While Soulcage Fiend kind of always gets in there even if it dies right away. I'm not a huge of the BB cost, but heavy black decks and cards seems to be a trend.
+Fervent Cathar vs. -Rutheless Invasion or Inner-Flame Acolyte: All cards that seem to help red push damage through. I like IF Acolyte more than Ruthless Invasion, but would you run Fervent Cathar over any of these?
+Mystical Teachings vs. -Probe: Teachings looks fun, but is the effect actually something worth playing with?
And general opinions on:
-Daru Lancer +a cheaper creature (maybe Youthful Knight or Kitsune Blademaster): Daru Lancer is starting to feel clunky, and I've been looking at increasing the lower slots with something.
+Dark Ritual: Are the potential explosive starts actually worth it to find a slot for this card?
+Grazing Gladehart: Repeatable lifegain seems really good for a bunch of decks. Should I look for a cut to make room for it?
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Also, I saw the Peasant group mentioned Nest Invader. How do we feel about this card now that it's been some time since it's release. I always felt we preferred the T1 dorks into bigger plays, but could we appreciate a one time mana boost to accel into maybe a 4 or 5 drop while getting a bear in the process?
This one thing that jumped out at me immediately was the synergy with morbid. Securing that death and turning on a Festerhide Boar or Brimstone Volley could be pretty clutch. Otherwise, the extra body could do some other work, like carry equipment, or just chumping out for a turn. Thoughts?
Thanks for the explanation though! Seems like a nifty card where I wonder if it's any good. I guess it depends on how useful combat tricking with phasing could be, since Leap or Shadow Rift do the evasion + cantrip better.
Maybe I'll give it a little test run and see how I like it.
Even as a 1/1, I like what it does for the cube, so I'll try to accommodate it by manipulating other aspects of my cube (like running a 3/1 over a 2/3 as an example). It's all part of that crazy, organic feeling that goes into cube design and balance.
Extort seems interesting for the decks that can afford the extra cost. I doubt drain 1 will be worth it on its own though, so the cube-worthiness will likely depend an awful lot of the other attributes of the card.
Battalion is probably the one I care for the least at the moment. Requiring the multiple attackers isn't too exciting and I'm not sure what to expect for an effect if it's on a common. I just can imagine it being very strong. Maybe something cool will come out though.
Bloodrush feels like it has a lot of potential just because it adds some nice versatility to the cards. Could start slapping this on any old, pauper vanilla common and maybe they will start looking a lot more playable. Guess it depends on how they balance the costs and stats between the creature and bloodrush though. I'm sure something will have to be overpriced to offset the versatility.
I also prefer Skyhunter over Aven Squire too, but the WW cost has been an concern among some of my members. One even asked why we didn't have Mistral Charger which I'm assuming was based off Stormfront Pegasus being a real card.
In my own little group, we've seen a rise in UR and UB Tempo decks that have been really strong lately. Was actually interesting to notice this over time since the UB combination seemed to evolve from a previously popular UW "Fliers" color combination. Guess we realized black provided a lot of sweet disruption elements. (A highlight of tonight was one of our players putting a little temporary lock on some of us with Cavern Harpy and Chittering Rats a couple of games. Felt pretty cool to have something like that happen in pauper.)
That's just the recent hot decks, but we usually see typical aggro decks as well. Probably Boros and RB Aggro as the most common. Throw burn in anything and it seems to get better. After that, I'd say a WB "Evasion" deck fairs pretty well. Green likes to show up from time to time to support these colors too, mainly red or white, but it seems to dance a fine line between staying aggro or shifting the deck build closer towards midrange for us (more with white than red).
Speaking of midrange, we have a strong showing of BG "Value" and UG Ramp here. Fun decks, with BG being one of my favorites. I also tend to end up UG a lot of the time as well, which is odd because I don't particularly want to. Just tend to pick strong cards like Capsize or Mulldrifter and the next thing I know I'm grabbing ramp and I'm in the deck. There's also the BW Pestilence deck here (or is it control?), but as a group we struggle to put it together consistently. Guess the pieces are fought over by too many decks/colors, but it feels really strong when the pieces do fall into place.
Control itself is actually one of our weaker points as a group, but that's a personal playstyle problem with us. I'd say most, if not all of us, are aggro players at heart so that's what we tend to try and pick right away. I'm probably the one who drafts control the most, and it's more because everyone is cutting each other nice aggro cards and I'm picking up nice control spells. Our best seems to be UB Control, often shifting into Grixis Control when something nice like Firebolt or Strangling Soot comes by where you go, "Yeah, I can splash for that." We had UW Control be a thing for a while, but after a couple of key changes, it's not quite as common anymore. It's more likely that the UB transitions into Esper if white gets played in the control archetype.
I'll cut this here as it's getting quite long. So as I first asked, what are the kind of decks you often see and like to play in your own cubes? I'm curious to see how similar or different it might be between each other.
Adding errata is a way to work around some parasitic mechanics and cards if you're into that it seems. I've read up on the "rebelizing" of cubes which is a neat idea to push a specific theme without sacrificing too many slots. Feels like you could do similar things for anything if you really wanted to, but potentially get too complex if you go overboard with errata. Overall, this isn't something I'm really into as I'm kind of a MTG purist and like using the cards as they're intended.
This leaves the Spire, Dross, and Razor the ones I still like most in today's pauper cube world. Evasion for both the blue and black ones, and the cost reduction really helps on the Spire Golem for controlling blue decks. Razor Golem has a decent sized body and vigilance isn't too bad for attacking and defensive scenarios so I still find it playable with the rest of the white cards too.
Wingcrafter can be a great example of all of these. We talk about worrying about blowouts occuring, but this seems to be a point where smart play should be a factor. Worst case, you attack into an opponent's board and removal hits the paired creature and some insignificant blockers takes out the now 1/1 Wingcrafter. Ouch. However, when you just use Wingcrafter as an enabler, you present the opponent with more options to answer. Does he remove the enabler to remove flying and potentially just trade with your attacking creature? He could, but then we're looking at some form of removal used on a 1-drop, and a creature trade. That doesn't seem like a terrible trade-off. Otherwise, the opponent uses removal on the paired creature and you're left with an enabler and just pair up the next threat.
That's only when you're playing around unknown information too. When you reach points where you know the opponent can't interact with you (tapped out, no cards in hand, etc), you're free to swing away with your X-amount of evasive power. Looks like a great card I'm willing to test out myself now.
Wormfang Drake and Daru Lancer were pretty much on their way out, just wondering how others felt about the few cards I had laying around to replace them with. I do have Thalakos Scout in by the way Izor, so I'm not sure what I'll end up replacing Drake with, but I'll find something.
I'll also have to highly consider getting Grazing Gladehart in there, as one of my players loves the card, but I've always been a fan of my Centaur-esque beaters. I'll probably compromise to get the antelope in there though, as I have no real problem with the card.
I could see myself considering the three cards roughly equal. Flanking, bushido, or a single Falter all have their pros and cons, but each are various ways of disrupting the opponent's blocking options. Although, maybe having a sustained effect puts the other two a little ahead of the Cathar.
This actually leads me into a question of my own. I hate to use this thread for a "personal" cube matter, but individual cube lists pages seem to see way less traffic than this thread. I'm looking at some card comparisons that may eventually lead to some additions of cuts of my own cube. Just wondering how others feel about these cards. "+" means I'm looking at it as an addition while "-" would be a cut.
-Wormfang Drake vs. +Scroll Thief: Blue doesn't seem need so many resilient beaters at three, with Stitched Drake and Stormbound Geist recently entering the picture. Getting blown out to removal felt awful as well hinting the Drake's time may have passed.
-Claustrophobia vs. +Undo: I actually kind of like both, but what do others prefer? Or would you cut Wormfang Drake to keep both?
+Soulcage Fiend vs. -Ravenous Skirge or Skittering Horror: Aggressive black cards fighting over each other? Skittering Horror probably doesn't belong in the comparison, but I'd like to know what others' think about him. However, Ravenous Skirge and the Demon seem very comparable. Skirge is terrible on defense, but flies. While Soulcage Fiend kind of always gets in there even if it dies right away. I'm not a huge of the BB cost, but heavy black decks and cards seems to be a trend.
+Fervent Cathar vs. -Rutheless Invasion or Inner-Flame Acolyte: All cards that seem to help red push damage through. I like IF Acolyte more than Ruthless Invasion, but would you run Fervent Cathar over any of these?
-Hollowhenge Beast vs. +Wild Leotau or Durkwood Baloth: Hollowhenge Beast bores me and I really hate the art. Suspend-y beast or a 5/4 for 4 seem better?
+Mystical Teachings vs. -Probe: Teachings looks fun, but is the effect actually something worth playing with?
And general opinions on:
-Daru Lancer +a cheaper creature (maybe Youthful Knight or Kitsune Blademaster): Daru Lancer is starting to feel clunky, and I've been looking at increasing the lower slots with something.
+Dark Ritual: Are the potential explosive starts actually worth it to find a slot for this card?
+Grazing Gladehart: Repeatable lifegain seems really good for a bunch of decks. Should I look for a cut to make room for it?