So I've got some actual drafts in with the 6Post and Tron package deal cards. One gives you 3 copies of Glimmerpost and 3 Cloudposts, another gives you 3 of each Tron land.
Tron is kind of difficult to play in a deck with more than one color. Without maps and crop rotations you don't always get it.
6Post is better than Tron, however on average you see about half of your deck in a draft of my cube, so in the matches I played my opponent would see 3 of the 6 lands and it was good but not overpowered.
The most powerful thing about his deck wasn't 6post, it was Cranial Plating for +3/+0 on a Porcelain Legionnaire, lol. That card is so bonkers.
Overall I'm pretty happy with these package deal cards. They all work fine and aren't broken. Everyone told me they were a bad idea, and would you look at that, they're an interesting build around.
Here we are again discussing Rare and Uncommon Ante cards in a Pauper Cube forum. My dude, if you want to keep trolling and get everyone here banned because they'll inevitably get at you for the utter crap you're producing you're doing it just right.
Brb discussing Black Lotus in Modern. Cuz literally Why Not and **** consensus anyway...
Okay, I have some Pauper cards to discuss.
I made a custom package deal card for Tron. 3 copies of each Tron land.
What are your thoughts on this? Would it break a more powerful cube? Would it be fine in a low powered cube? Is it not even very good?
Wenn Sometimes actually Play Ante Cube and Run it ltke a League where once you go below 30 nonbasics you are Out in that draft we use all the Ante cards and some Others. Its fun Bit most of the Ante cards are often Last picks because they are not that great. But due to the Basic Land Limit we have with that Format Sometimes you actually have to Play them.
Edit: technically Not the original Ante but a homebrew Version of it.
Have you considered making a custom ante rule?
Like, "Whenever you would ante a card, instead ante 5 cards (or however many seems right to you)" or, "Remove cards from the top of your deck until you find a non-land card and place it into your Ante zone. Shuffle the removed cards back into your library."?
Running a league seems kind of clunky, I'm thinking of ways to make it feasible for one-off drafts. How have leagues with ante worked out for you, have there been any fun moments with ante'd or stolen cards?
Also, Contract From Below is the best card in the game. Have you seen anyone lose after resolving Contract?
I ask because my friend gave me some nice power 9 proxies that he drew, and I threw Contract in with it. The power 9 seems reasonable in a limited Pauper environment, powerful certainly but not automatically game winning. Contract on the other hand seems insurmountable if your opponent gets to resolve it.
These cards aren't Pauper legal, but they're super not legal in any format so I figure **** it, why not.
What do you guys think about these cards in a Pauper environment? All of them have the, "Remove from deck if not playing for ante" line sharpied through.
Timmerian Fiends Additionally, this one has the, "Opponent may ante one additional card to counter this effect" line crossed out. This gives black a little bit of artifact removal and it has double devotion for Gary (Peace be Upon Him).
I really like the concept of stealing cards for the rest of the draft and these cards hover right around Pauper power level. While I don't think the normal ante rules really work that well for cube since losing a basic land doesn't matter, some of the ante cards that forcibly trade cards are interesting.
Also, what are your White, Red and Black 2s, White Red and Blue 3s and Black 4s picks for the most powerful drops? The staples are pretty much clear both in the Evaluate Everything and by experience, but after that the cubeables are another world entirely with almost everyone running different things, so I was wondering if we could reach a consensus of which of those are the most powerful among the bunch (something like below staple but above cubeable).
After drafting a few times with the two package deal cards I created (one gives you the 6 artifact lands, another gives you Fountain of Youth, Ornithopter, Shield Sphere, Bone Saw, Phyrexian Walker, and Tormod's Crypt), I've decided to add 6Post as a package deal card too. Three copies of both Glimmer and Cloudpost.
The cube subreddit told me it was a bad idea, therefore it's a good idea that's worth trying out. Everyone on reddit is an anodyne sophist, so reddit can be used as an inverse springboard for ideas. The artifact land and junk artifact packages worked reasonably well, and getting 6Post seems like an exciting inclusion.
Other ideas for package deal cards: The kobolds, 3 copies of each Tron land, Squadron Hawk cards, S.N.O.T.
While I despise reddit and it's posting format, this time they're right though. Getting both 6 Locus lands and the Tron package with just two picks (or even one of the packages on a single pick) leads to all kinds of degenerate things at basically no opportunity cost, since in a regular Draft environment you'd have to "waste" several picks getting as many of those and you can, whereas in your proposed idea you would just pick one of them and not give them a second thought for the rest of the draft, leaving you to just focus on bomby, expensive spells. Squadron Hawk is fine though, I've considered it many times along with other "copies matter" cards for each color, but ultimately decided against it.
The joy of a pauper cube, for me, is being able to always come home from a prerelease with cards to add to my cube. Pauper Cube mimics in many ways a limited environment, since common cards usually make up the bulk of one's limited deck. A pauper cube is a place to cheaply construct a representation of your favorite affordable cards to play with through the ages. It's fun to see what old commons make the cut for cube, and what new commons do to change the environment. Pauper Cubes are also quite versatile and allow a great variety of cubes to be shaped around such a simple stipulation. Some people like a powered pauper cube - that's fine. It means you're always trying to find which commons have been pushed *just enough* so that they're always "strictly better" than other cards. Other Pauper cubes are focused around synergies - it's fun to construct archetypes through affordable cards. Some people like Pauper Cubes because they naturally restrict the complexity of the cards involved. It makes playing Magic feel like the old days when cards did less things. Some people like pauper cubes that run thirty Relentless Rats or ten Rune Snags.
At a certain point one has to concede that Pauper Cubes can be *ANYTHING* the builder wants them to be. The one thing we can all agree on, and the only thing we might need to agree on, is that we like playing with Magic cards that are printed at Common.
I agree with everything you said.
Which is why I don't understand the desire to homogenize cube by building a community one.
The only thing everyone here can agree on is the absolute power level of a card in a vacuum. So you're not going to get a cube that prioritizes interesting cards, just one that prioritizes the most powerful ones.
Which begs the question: Why even bother, why not just start with one of those and add more S Tier cards that they've missed?
Judging from past interactions with this forum, I don't really see any of the cards I like being considered for such a project besides for Ninjutsu and Modern Horizons cards. I brought up Tidal Wave once and was accused of trolling.
Also, what are your White, Red and Black 2s, White Red and Blue 3s and Black 4s picks for the most powerful drops? The staples are pretty much clear both in the Evaluate Everything and by experience, but after that the cubeables are another world entirely with almost everyone running different things, so I was wondering if we could reach a consensus of which of those are the most powerful among the bunch (something like below staple but above cubeable).
I'm not sure there is a definitive answer. We're planning to rotate a bunch of things frequently if we get regular cube sessions off the ground.
I don't understand the point of reaching consensus. If you want to min max everything and play the same few dozen cards as everyone else, why not play constructed?
I get the feeling that none of you guys actually like Pauper, you just can't afford a Vintage cube and don't like looking at proxies. If you want to max out on power just go all the way, why stick with commons?
Also, what are your White, Red and Black 2s, White Red and Blue 3s and Black 4s picks for the most powerful drops? The staples are pretty much clear both in the Evaluate Everything and by experience, but after that the cubeables are another world entirely with almost everyone running different things, so I was wondering if we could reach a consensus of which of those are the most powerful among the bunch (something like below staple but above cubeable).
After drafting a few times with the two package deal cards I created (one gives you the 6 artifact lands, another gives you Fountain of Youth, Ornithopter, Shield Sphere, Bone Saw, Phyrexian Walker, and Tormod's Crypt), I've decided to add 6Post as a package deal card too. Three copies of both Glimmer and Cloudpost.
The cube subreddit told me it was a bad idea, therefore it's a good idea that's worth trying out. Everyone on reddit is an anodyne sophist, so reddit can be used as an inverse springboard for ideas. The artifact land and junk artifact packages worked reasonably well, and getting 6Post seems like an exciting inclusion.
Other ideas for package deal cards: The kobolds, 3 copies of each Tron land, Squadron Hawk cards, S.N.O.T.
While I despise reddit and it's posting format, this time they're right though. Getting both 6 Locus lands and the Tron package with just two picks (or even one of the packages on a single pick) leads to all kinds of degenerate things at basically no opportunity cost, since in a regular Draft environment you'd have to "waste" several picks getting as many of those and you can, whereas in your proposed idea you would just pick one of them and not give them a second thought for the rest of the draft, leaving you to just focus on bomby, expensive spells. Squadron Hawk is fine though, I've considered it many times along with other "copies matter" cards for each color, but ultimately decided against it.
One would still have to draft those bombs though.
You'd also be down a bunch of colored sources, so you'd have to draft a bunch of fixing or try and go colorless. I suppose for mono colored decks it wouldn't matter, you'd just play 11~ basics + 6post.
I'm trying it out. If it's too dumb I'll take it our, but I think it'll be fine. I think most of the negative reactions that Package Deal cards get is because they break singleton or they're house rules/custom cards, not because having easy access to Tron/Post or 3 Squadron Hawks in your deck fundamentally breaks cube and ruins it.
They have a sort of non-kosher ickyness to them, same as custom cards, uncards, ante cards, draft matters, conspiracies, etc.
I think getting easy access to the posts and playing Ulamog's Crusher a few turns early seems fine. It still dies to doom blade.
I also got mass downvoted for bringing up the idea of playing Hydro and Pyroblast in cube because I thought the idea of having narrow spells that were super powerful was interesting. Those are in my cube and they're fine.
After drafting a few times with the two package deal cards I created (one gives you the 6 artifact lands, another gives you Fountain of Youth, Ornithopter, Shield Sphere, Bone Saw, Phyrexian Walker, and Tormod's Crypt), I've decided to add 6Post as a package deal card too. Three copies of both Glimmer and Cloudpost.
The cube subreddit told me it was a bad idea, therefore it's a good idea that's worth trying out. Everyone on reddit is an anodyne sophist, so reddit can be used as an inverse springboard for ideas. The artifact land and junk artifact packages worked reasonably well, and getting 6Post seems like an exciting inclusion.
Other ideas for package deal cards: The kobolds, 3 copies of each Tron land, Squadron Hawk cards, S.N.O.T.
While we're on the topic of making exceptions to common rarity, what are some thoughts on Super Secret Tech?
Everything in my cube that can be foil is foil. What I mean by that is that if you look at the visual spoiler for my cube, I have the accurate printing listed and if there is a foil of that printing, then I have it. The only thing that isn't foil is Lightning Bolt since the old bordered judge foil of it is hundreds of dollars.
Anyways, back to Super Secret Tech. The card seems absurdly powerful but it's symmetrical so it seems fair. Is it really not fair since it favors the person with more creatures? Is that okay ultimately?
According to Mark Rosewater, tokens count as premium if the card that made them is foil. So it seems to help the Goblin deck the most, and help white the least since I recently added most of the common Banding creatures to it, none of which are foil and are all at below-curve rates besides for Benalish Hero.
Has anyone else made exceptions to common rarity for their Pauper cubes?
Worldknit. I highly suggest it. The deck still only consists of commons and I've got nothing but great feedback. It would obviously be too strong with your WUBRG guys.
Edit: Btw. you can also view other peoples lists yourself and see what they are playing: Link
I have all of the conspiracies sleeved up (the one that cares about multiples of creatures is kept off to the side) and in a separate module, but haven't considered putting them in the cube itself.
It's an interesting idea. Worldknit seems like the most fun conspiracy
I'm not sure it breaks the rainbow guys. You still have to draft them all and draw them in your 60~ card deck. I understand the concern though.
I changed my Golgari section to Rendclaw Trow, Grisly Salvage, and Shambling Shell. Normally I try to shy away from bombs, and anything with Dredge on it is kind of a bomb by default, but I figure a little bit of spice is fine.
Cards like Rendclaw Trow, Putrid Leech, and Canker Abomination don't really do anything interesting, they're just kind of generic good stuff cards that happen to be BG. Grisly Salvage and a Shambling Shell incentivize a unique archetype.
I use a Windows Phone. Most websites don't seem to respect the Windows Phone browser's request for desktop sites any longer, and just force mobile view anyways. So I can't view anyone's signatures since I can only see the mobile version of this site.
I also have Stocking Tiger, which like Booster Tutor pulls cards from the unused portion of the cube.
Additionally, I run two cycles of dual taplands from Coldsnap and Invasion. These aren't Pauper legal, but they're identical to guildgates except they have better art. They aren't full 10 card cycles, just allied colors but oh well.
At a certain point, one wonders if you can even call it a pauper cube if you're running mythics. I do make an exception in Pauper Cube for some Un cards. I've run Booster Tutor before with the stipulation that you had to crack a pack of Fallen Empires that I keep with the cube. I've also been toying with the idea of putting The Grand Calcutron in the cube since i don't know where/when/how else I'd get to play with it, and I love the way it redefines how the game is played.
If you really want someone drafting a 5 color deck, why not include something that's actually on the Pauper power level - Dragonsoul Knight. It used to be uncommon, to give you an idea of the assumed strength of it (in a set with abundant mana fixing). It just seems like 5c mythics are way too swingy for this format. I've run Dragonsoul myself, it's a fun achievement to unlock!
Genju has non-soulless PhotoShop garbage art. Also, the Genjus at first glance seem great but in reality they kind of suck. This one is on a pauper power level.
Chromanticore I have because bestow is one of my favorite mechanics. This is likely the best one of the three.
Child of Alara seems fine. I don't have many sweepers in my cube, so getting a sweeper is a nice payoff for going 5 color.
I can't imagine that these cards are actually playable in real formats, they seem to be hovering right around a Pauper power level anyways. And no, Commander is not a real format.
I also have Stocking Tiger, which like Booster Tutor pulls cards from the unused portion of the cube.
Additionally, I run two cycles of dual taplands from Coldsnap and Invasion. These aren't Pauper legal, but they're identical to guildgates except they have better art. They aren't full 10 card cycles, just allied colors but oh well.
Tron is kind of difficult to play in a deck with more than one color. Without maps and crop rotations you don't always get it.
6Post is better than Tron, however on average you see about half of your deck in a draft of my cube, so in the matches I played my opponent would see 3 of the 6 lands and it was good but not overpowered.
I stopped his Eldrazi Devastator with a Sawtooth Thresher that had to ditch all of its counters to get big enough. It was pretty neat.
The most powerful thing about his deck wasn't 6post, it was Cranial Plating for +3/+0 on a Porcelain Legionnaire, lol. That card is so bonkers.
Overall I'm pretty happy with these package deal cards. They all work fine and aren't broken. Everyone told me they were a bad idea, and would you look at that, they're an interesting build around.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Okay, I have some Pauper cards to discuss.
I made a custom package deal card for Tron. 3 copies of each Tron land.
What are your thoughts on this? Would it break a more powerful cube? Would it be fine in a low powered cube? Is it not even very good?
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Have you considered making a custom ante rule?
Like, "Whenever you would ante a card, instead ante 5 cards (or however many seems right to you)" or, "Remove cards from the top of your deck until you find a non-land card and place it into your Ante zone. Shuffle the removed cards back into your library."?
Running a league seems kind of clunky, I'm thinking of ways to make it feasible for one-off drafts. How have leagues with ante worked out for you, have there been any fun moments with ante'd or stolen cards?
Also, Contract From Below is the best card in the game. Have you seen anyone lose after resolving Contract?
I ask because my friend gave me some nice power 9 proxies that he drew, and I threw Contract in with it. The power 9 seems reasonable in a limited Pauper environment, powerful certainly but not automatically game winning. Contract on the other hand seems insurmountable if your opponent gets to resolve it.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
What do you guys think about these cards in a Pauper environment? All of them have the, "Remove from deck if not playing for ante" line sharpied through.
Bronze Tablet
Timmerian Fiends Additionally, this one has the, "Opponent may ante one additional card to counter this effect" line crossed out. This gives black a little bit of artifact removal and it has double devotion for Gary (Peace be Upon Him).
Tempest Efreet
Rebirth
I really like the concept of stealing cards for the rest of the draft and these cards hover right around Pauper power level. While I don't think the normal ante rules really work that well for cube since losing a basic land doesn't matter, some of the ante cards that forcibly trade cards are interesting.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I've already ignored the online only legalities for my cube, but this is nice for those of us too OCD to do so.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I want to revisit this.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubedeck/1139409
This deck seems fine. The Wastes represent 6post.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I agree with everything you said.
Which is why I don't understand the desire to homogenize cube by building a community one.
The only thing everyone here can agree on is the absolute power level of a card in a vacuum. So you're not going to get a cube that prioritizes interesting cards, just one that prioritizes the most powerful ones.
Which begs the question: Why even bother, why not just start with one of those and add more S Tier cards that they've missed?
Judging from past interactions with this forum, I don't really see any of the cards I like being considered for such a project besides for Ninjutsu and Modern Horizons cards. I brought up Tidal Wave once and was accused of trolling.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I don't understand the point of reaching consensus. If you want to min max everything and play the same few dozen cards as everyone else, why not play constructed?
I get the feeling that none of you guys actually like Pauper, you just can't afford a Vintage cube and don't like looking at proxies. If you want to max out on power just go all the way, why stick with commons?
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
One would still have to draft those bombs though.
You'd also be down a bunch of colored sources, so you'd have to draft a bunch of fixing or try and go colorless. I suppose for mono colored decks it wouldn't matter, you'd just play 11~ basics + 6post.
I'm trying it out. If it's too dumb I'll take it our, but I think it'll be fine. I think most of the negative reactions that Package Deal cards get is because they break singleton or they're house rules/custom cards, not because having easy access to Tron/Post or 3 Squadron Hawks in your deck fundamentally breaks cube and ruins it.
They have a sort of non-kosher ickyness to them, same as custom cards, uncards, ante cards, draft matters, conspiracies, etc.
I think getting easy access to the posts and playing Ulamog's Crusher a few turns early seems fine. It still dies to doom blade.
I also got mass downvoted for bringing up the idea of playing Hydro and Pyroblast in cube because I thought the idea of having narrow spells that were super powerful was interesting. Those are in my cube and they're fine.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
The cube subreddit told me it was a bad idea, therefore it's a good idea that's worth trying out. Everyone on reddit is an anodyne sophist, so reddit can be used as an inverse springboard for ideas. The artifact land and junk artifact packages worked reasonably well, and getting 6Post seems like an exciting inclusion.
Other ideas for package deal cards: The kobolds, 3 copies of each Tron land, Squadron Hawk cards, S.N.O.T.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Everything in my cube that can be foil is foil. What I mean by that is that if you look at the visual spoiler for my cube, I have the accurate printing listed and if there is a foil of that printing, then I have it. The only thing that isn't foil is Lightning Bolt since the old bordered judge foil of it is hundreds of dollars.
Anyways, back to Super Secret Tech. The card seems absurdly powerful but it's symmetrical so it seems fair. Is it really not fair since it favors the person with more creatures? Is that okay ultimately?
According to Mark Rosewater, tokens count as premium if the card that made them is foil. So it seems to help the Goblin deck the most, and help white the least since I recently added most of the common Banding creatures to it, none of which are foil and are all at below-curve rates besides for Benalish Hero.
Is that fair since I gave white Knights of Thorn?
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I have all of the conspiracies sleeved up (the one that cares about multiples of creatures is kept off to the side) and in a separate module, but haven't considered putting them in the cube itself.
It's an interesting idea. Worldknit seems like the most fun conspiracy
I'm not sure it breaks the rainbow guys. You still have to draft them all and draw them in your 60~ card deck. I understand the concern though.
I changed my Golgari section to Rendclaw Trow, Grisly Salvage, and Shambling Shell. Normally I try to shy away from bombs, and anything with Dredge on it is kind of a bomb by default, but I figure a little bit of spice is fine.
Cards like Rendclaw Trow, Putrid Leech, and Canker Abomination don't really do anything interesting, they're just kind of generic good stuff cards that happen to be BG. Grisly Salvage and a Shambling Shell incentivize a unique archetype.
I use a Windows Phone. Most websites don't seem to respect the Windows Phone browser's request for desktop sites any longer, and just force mobile view anyways. So I can't view anyone's signatures since I can only see the mobile version of this site.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
Genju has non-soulless PhotoShop garbage art. Also, the Genjus at first glance seem great but in reality they kind of suck. This one is on a pauper power level.
Chromanticore I have because bestow is one of my favorite mechanics. This is likely the best one of the three.
Child of Alara seems fine. I don't have many sweepers in my cube, so getting a sweeper is a nice payoff for going 5 color.
I can't imagine that these cards are actually playable in real formats, they seem to be hovering right around a Pauper power level anyways. And no, Commander is not a real format.
I guess I could call it a Vintage cube then lol.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.
I have: Genju of the Realm, Chromanticore, and Child of Alara to incentivize 5 color and artifact decks. Bronze Tablet because it's interesting to steal cards for the rest of the draft, and Booster Tutor since it should be in every cube.
I also have Stocking Tiger, which like Booster Tutor pulls cards from the unused portion of the cube.
Additionally, I run two cycles of dual taplands from Coldsnap and Invasion. These aren't Pauper legal, but they're identical to guildgates except they have better art. They aren't full 10 card cycles, just allied colors but oh well.
Ignoring what Magic players say isn't the answer, it's listening to what they have to say and doing the exact opposite that's correct.