I just realized, that Daru Stinger isn't a Human anymore. They changend it back, because it has apmplify years ago. It's ranking should probably be changed.
Jhessian Thief seems to go done in ratings here, though being staple in Peasant. Interesting. Maybe peasant has more stuff to get it through?
Wight of Precinct Six is bad. We don't have enough mill to make it good. If you just rely on killing your opponents creatures, you just don't want an early 1/1 or a fatty without evasion lategame.
Earth elemental is borderline to bad.
Furnace whelp is borderline to bad. It dies to almost anything.
Mark of mutiny is bad. I don't want to pump my opponents creature. In multiplayer, this can be fun, but not in regular 1v1.
Lead the stampede is borderline. too unreliable.
Prey's vengeance is borderline. +2/+2 is not very much. often your creature still dies.
Star Compass ist bad. Doesn't fix.
Scion of Ugin is borderline I think. For 5 mana I would totally cube it, but as is, I'm not sure.
Forkbolt. I was sure, this was already rated, but it somehow got lost. Yeah, it has the flexibility of Twin Bolt but at sorcery speed - huge downside. I think it's borderline at best.
The Hour of Devastation cards are already evaluated and you can find them a few pages back. You just have to put them into the posts (or whoever has time to do it)
I think 3 means a lot less here than it would other ratings. There are dozens of creatures listed, you're probably only going to use what, 4-6 at most?
That being said, I agree that things are a bit too loose. Perhaps a good solution would be to up the activity on this thread and do 'call backs' to cards you think need a re-rating? People were probably a bit more lax back then in regards to the rating, but there has been a ton of newer stuff that has made some of those cards outdated. And even though it could get confusing with two sets of ratings, I think it's a good problem to have more activity in these threads than less. No one etched these ratings in stone, especially since this project did start so long ago,
I agree. We need to re-evaluate a lot of cards. And I would appreciate it, if people would point out now misrated cards, if they see one.
Frontline Devastator's 3/3 is a little lackluster for a 4 drop. It doesn't have haste and the firebreathing ability is a bad one. 2 mana per damage is not a good equation to me.
Regarding Granitic Titan, compare it to Wayward Giant. I think that 5 thoughness is better than 5 power, because to kill your creature in combat they need a bear and a giant. And I'm not sure cycling pays for the additional R.
Bitterbow Sharpshooters is one of the best green 5 drops. Vigilance is very powerful on a body that size and green really needs the protection against flyers. The spider was already a stapple to my eyes, and I think that most people here had it on their cubes and never thought about removing it. And the sharpshooter is easier to cast.
Actually. if I flip through the cubeable creatures, most of the red 4 drops are 3/3 or lower with upside or bigger with a downside (things like Coal Stoker, Ill-tempered cyclops or Marauding Maulhorn. So I think, Cubeable fits right in there. Especially because it has pseudo-evasion.
Granitic Titan isn't to compare with something. Wayward giant has the power nad toughness switched. But I can see your point. I compared it to Tenement Crasher, which is listed at Cubeable at the moment. So, I guess, if we decide Titan should be borderline, we should switch the crasher as well.
Can you give me at least some reasoning, so I cn think about it to eventually change my mind? No offense, I really appreciate your opinion, but it is hard to work with "I think it's borderline", if there is no reasoning behind it.
I evaluated Hour of Devastation, have fun discussing:
Act of Heroism: Borderline. Very situational combat trick. It can ruin your opponent or do nothing.
Aven of enduring Hope: Borderline. Common Angel of Mercy. Unfortunately, on mana cost of 5, there are too much better competitors.
Dauntless Aven: Borderline. A 2/1 with pseudo-vigilance, that can pass it to other creatures is okay, but CMC 3 has a lot of creatures and this is not one of the best.
Disposal Mummy: Borderline. The body is underwhelming and exiling cards from a graveyard isn't that relevant in most cubes.
Solitary Camel: Bad. This is really good with deserts, but without it is just useless.
Steadfast Sentinel: Borderline. A 2/3 for 4 with Vigilance is not really good. The upside is, you can bring it back as a 4/4 later in the game, when you have a lot of lands.
Firebrand Archer: Borderline. This is a really aggressive creature, that can force some damage through, but it dies way too easy with just 1 toughness.
Frontline Devastator: Cubeable. A 3/3 for 4, that can get pumped and forces at least 2 damage through, is great for aggressive decks.
Gilded Cerodon: Borderline. This is really good with the right support, but almost useless without.
Granitic Titan: Cubeable. A big creature with evasion, that can be cycled in the early game is decent.
Khenra Scrapper: Cubeable/Staple(?). A cousin of Brazen Wolves. It is more flexible and has evasion, but the flexibility comes with a price.
Puncturing Blow: Borderline. Considering, that the exiling clause is irrelevant in most pauper cubes, this is a strictly worse Lightning Blast.
Thorned Moloch: Borderline. Prowess isn't a good enough evasion and the restriction of first strike is just too high, to be included in most cubes. But at least, the abilites aren't useless.
Ambuscade: Staple. This card is simply nuts. The fact it's instant speed and the other creature doesn't strike back, makes this often a 2-for-1 or removes a blocker before the buffed creature hits the opponent.
Beneath the Sands: Borderline. Rampant Growth for 1 mana more is bad, but the fact you can cycle it, if not needed anymore makes it at least interesting.
Question, that came up to me, while I did that. What about cards, that are slightly worse than a new card, but the new card is just not good enough to be a higher category. Should we switch that to one category lower? Example would be Vulpine Goliath vs. Colassal Dreadmaw
Sorry, I didn't see the initial post. Pouncing Cheetah and Quarry Hauler clearly slipped in the wrong categories when I inserted them into the posts. That sometimes happens. I'm sorry for that. May be Al can edit those into the right categories.
We
About Inititate's companion. Yes, the same card in white is cubeable. But it's wight. Green has better two-drops than this. We have
I mean you need way more than one white 2-drop, so Soltari Trooper being great isn't much of an argument against Gust Walker.
The number of creatures that can successfully block a 3/3 flyer is just absurdly low
Sorry for double posting, but I felt like this belonged in a different post, than my changelog.
The main problem of Gust Walker is, that it is either just a bear or a 3/3 flyer, that can only attack every second turn, also it can never block flyers by itself.
Also Steadfast Sentry, agonizing syphon, reckless air strike, ripscale predator
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@Night_Hydra: Do you have a link for that Discord server?
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Jhessian Thief seems to go done in ratings here, though being staple in Peasant. Interesting. Maybe peasant has more stuff to get it through?
Wight of Precinct Six is bad. We don't have enough mill to make it good. If you just rely on killing your opponents creatures, you just don't want an early 1/1 or a fatty without evasion lategame.
Earth elemental is borderline to bad.
Furnace whelp is borderline to bad. It dies to almost anything.
Mark of mutiny is bad. I don't want to pump my opponents creature. In multiplayer, this can be fun, but not in regular 1v1.
Lead the stampede is borderline. too unreliable.
Prey's vengeance is borderline. +2/+2 is not very much. often your creature still dies.
Star Compass ist bad. Doesn't fix.
Scion of Ugin is borderline I think. For 5 mana I would totally cube it, but as is, I'm not sure.
Forkbolt. I was sure, this was already rated, but it somehow got lost. Yeah, it has the flexibility of Twin Bolt but at sorcery speed - huge downside. I think it's borderline at best.
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I agree. We need to re-evaluate a lot of cards. And I would appreciate it, if people would point out now misrated cards, if they see one.
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Actually. if I flip through the cubeable creatures, most of the red 4 drops are 3/3 or lower with upside or bigger with a downside (things like Coal Stoker, Ill-tempered cyclops or Marauding Maulhorn. So I think, Cubeable fits right in there. Especially because it has pseudo-evasion.
Granitic Titan isn't to compare with something. Wayward giant has the power nad toughness switched. But I can see your point. I compared it to Tenement Crasher, which is listed at Cubeable at the moment. So, I guess, if we decide Titan should be borderline, we should switch the crasher as well.
Bitterbow Sharpshooters is a strcitly better Sentinel Spider, but, as Humphrey states, it has to competet with Nessian Asp, and I don't think there very close.
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Can you give me at least some reasoning, so I cn think about it to eventually change my mind? No offense, I really appreciate your opinion, but it is hard to work with "I think it's borderline", if there is no reasoning behind it.
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Act of Heroism: Borderline. Very situational combat trick. It can ruin your opponent or do nothing.
Aven of enduring Hope: Borderline. Common Angel of Mercy. Unfortunately, on mana cost of 5, there are too much better competitors.
Dauntless Aven: Borderline. A 2/1 with pseudo-vigilance, that can pass it to other creatures is okay, but CMC 3 has a lot of creatures and this is not one of the best.
Disposal Mummy: Borderline. The body is underwhelming and exiling cards from a graveyard isn't that relevant in most cubes.
Djeru's Renunciation: Bad. A more flexible but worse Expose Evil.
Dutiful Servants: Borderline. An okayish vanilla creature, that unfortunately can't do anything but block.
God-Pharaoh's Faithful: Bad. 0 power and just life-gain is not helpful to win a game.
Mummy Paramount: Borderline. This can be really good in a zombie-heavy cube, but somewhere else, it is just a bear.
Oketra's Avenger: Cubeable. Slightly better Dromoka Warrior.
Solitary Camel: Bad. This is really good with deserts, but without it is just useless.
Steadfast Sentinel: Borderline. A 2/3 for 4 with Vigilance is not really good. The upside is, you can bring it back as a 4/4 later in the game, when you have a lot of lands.
Aerial Guide: Cubeable. A strictly better Trained Condor.
Aven Reedstalker: Cubeable. Mechanical reprint of Nephalia Seakite.
Countervailing Winds: Bad. A different version of Circular Logic.
Cunning Survivor: Bad. A worse Elusive Spellfist.
Proven Combatant: Bad. A 1/1 for 1 isn't good in any color and the eternalize costs are way too high.
Seer of the Last Tomorrow: Bad. Milling hasn't enough support yet to be a viable archetype in pauper cubes.
Spellweaver Eternal: Cubeable. A 2/1 that can grow bigger and also drains your opponent when blocked can be really scary during the game.
Strategic Planning: Bad. A strictly worse Anticipate.
Striped Riverwinder: Cubeable. The bigger and more flexible version of Benthic Giant.
Tragic Lesson: Bad. A Divination that trades speed for tempo is still not good.
Unquenchable Thirst: Bad. Slightly better than Ice Over, if you have a Desert, else, it is just a bad card.
Carrion Screecher: Borderline. 3 Power with evasion is ok, but outclassed by other creatures.
Grisly Survivor: Bad. There is not enough support in pauper cubes.
Khenra Eternal: Borderline. It is a bear with upside, but Afflict 1 isn't enough.
Lethal Sting: Bad. At worst, this is a 2-for-1. At best, this is overcosted removal.
Lurching Rotbeast: Bad. It dies to too many cards, so the cycling ability is possibly the only upside.
Marauding Boneslasher: Borderline. A nice body for the cost, but without support, it isn't very impressive.
Moaning Wall: Bad. This just doesn't do enough. The only reason to play it, is to cycle it.
Ruin Rat: Borderline. A 1/1 deathtouch with small upside. But exiling cards in graveyards isn't relevant in most cubes.
Scrounger of Souls: Borderline. This can turn a game. But it lacks 1 point of power or toughness to be really good.
Torment of Venom: Bad. 4 mana is way too much for card, that doesn't kill always and the second effect is very situational.
Without Weakness: Bad. This is a way worse Undying Evil, that can be cycled, but still is too situational.
Wretched Camel: Bad. This is too bad without and mediocre with support.
Blur of Blades: Bad. A bad removal spell and 2 damage aren't much for a burn spell.
Crash through: Bad. One of the best cantrips in red. Still not very good.
Defiant Khenra: Bad. Reprint of Falkenrath Reaver.
Firebrand Archer: Borderline. This is a really aggressive creature, that can force some damage through, but it dies way too easy with just 1 toughness.
Frontline Devastator: Cubeable. A 3/3 for 4, that can get pumped and forces at least 2 damage through, is great for aggressive decks.
Gilded Cerodon: Borderline. This is really good with the right support, but almost useless without.
Granitic Titan: Cubeable. A big creature with evasion, that can be cycled in the early game is decent.
Khenra Scrapper: Cubeable/Staple(?). A cousin of Brazen Wolves. It is more flexible and has evasion, but the flexibility comes with a price.
Open Fire: Borderline. Strictly worse Barbed Lightning, but still playable.
Puncturing Blow: Borderline. Considering, that the exiling clause is irrelevant in most pauper cubes, this is a strictly worse Lightning Blast.
Thorned Moloch: Borderline. Prowess isn't a good enough evasion and the restriction of first strike is just too high, to be included in most cubes. But at least, the abilites aren't useless.
Zealot of the God-Pharaoh: Cubeable. The body is okay for the cost. But the ability is overcosted.
Ambuscade: Staple. This card is simply nuts. The fact it's instant speed and the other creature doesn't strike back, makes this often a 2-for-1 or removes a blocker before the buffed creature hits the opponent.
Beneath the Sands: Borderline. Rampant Growth for 1 mana more is bad, but the fact you can cycle it, if not needed anymore makes it at least interesting.
Bitterbow Sharpshooters: Cubeable. The better splashable version of Sentinel Spider.
Brambleweft Behemoth: Cubeable. Strictly better Vulpine Goliath.
Feral Prowler: Borderline. It replaces itself, but 1 power isn't very impressive.
Frilled Sandwalla: Cubeable. Slightly worse Basking Rootwalla.
Gift of Strength: Borderline. Reach can be interesting for combat tricks, but it's not worth an additional mana.
Harrier Naga: Cubeable. Reprint of Nessian Courser.
Life Goes On: Bad. Only life isn't worth the card disadvantage.
Oasis Ritualist: Borderline. Ramp on a 4-drop is not needed most of the time, but for the ramp archetype it can be interesting.
Rampaging Hippo: Cubeable. A 5/6 with trample is already okay, but with cycling it becomes flexible.
Rhonas's Stalwart: Cubeable. A bear than can get unblockable and bigger, if needed is useful.
Sidewinder Naga: Borderline. A 3/2 for 3 is okay, but the upside is almost irrelevant in most cubes.
Graven Abomination: Bad. The body is mediocre and the ability useless in the average cube.
Wall of Forgotten Pharaohs: Bad. The card is really good with a desert. Unfortunately it is useless without.
Desert of the Fervent/Desert of the Glorified/Desert of the Indomitable/Desert of the Mindful/Desert of the True: Borderline. Unless you have Desert matters cards in your cube, these are even worse, than Drifting Meadow and friends. But still not unplayable.
Survivors' Encampment: Borderline. Desert reprint of Holdout Settlement.
Question, that came up to me, while I did that. What about cards, that are slightly worse than a new card, but the new card is just not good enough to be a higher category. Should we switch that to one category lower? Example would be Vulpine Goliath vs. Colassal Dreadmaw
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We
About Inititate's companion. Yes, the same card in white is cubeable. But it's wight. Green has better two-drops than this. We have
for example, I consider them all to be better.
The Invoker may be good, but 8 IS a lot. I don't think it is a great manasink. A okayish maybe, but not great.
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Changed Gust Walker to Cubeable. I'm not convinced it should be a staple yet. But I'm also not sold on Mistral Charger being a staple.
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Sorry for double posting, but I felt like this belonged in a different post, than my changelog.
The main problem of Gust Walker is, that it is either just a bear or a 3/3 flyer, that can only attack every second turn, also it can never block flyers by itself.
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Changelog #2: Community evaluation considered and evaluation edited.
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