you'd increase your creature count and get two good aggro creatures in at the same time. i am not going to cut shortfang come innistrad, but i would be fine with cutting him for an aggressive black creature in the future. and i'd cut him before ogre marauder, who i've had nothing but good experiences with.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
i'm going to run interloper at 500 cards. and definitely cut night's whisper of those options. whisper doesn't make any archetype function and i consider it to be filler. the creatures are important to black aggro. being over 50% creatures is really good for aggressive strategies.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
I'm bringing in Scavenging Ooze and need suggestions of green cards to cut. I'd prefer to cut a creature because green is already heavily skewed toward creatures over spells, but I could also see cutting Farseek or Stonewood Invocation. Thoughts and suggestions?
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
red/black and white/black aggro are my current favorite decks to draft. the last draft i had resulted in two really good white/black aggro decks (lol). from a completely randomized pool. so that was a lot of fun.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
the two things i feel that holds back black aggro in the average cube is lack of creatures and not enough disruption. you're running a good amount of disruption and you're over 50% creatures in black (counting sarcomancy and bitterblossom as creatures) so i don't think your need is dire. but there are a few things you're not running that you could swap in to improve the archetype if you felt like you needed to:
i really like ogre marauder and can second calibretto's recommendation. as i said in my thread recently, i've never been disappointed. he does exactly what i want him to do. i run him and don't run terror and you're running a lot of spot removal so i think it's fine to remove your worst kill spell.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
None of those look that great. Emberwilde Augur caught my eye for a second, being able to dome for 3 if your opponent plays a blocker your aggro deck can't deal with. Even then though, probably still not good enough...
it would be great if you could play it at instant speed. sigh.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
i like slagstorm and it's not in danger of being cut yet. but i just used starstorm at instant speed the other day to sweep my opponent's x/1s (some of which had just been played) and swing in with my x/2+ creatures (and play other stuff that turn). being an instant and scaling both mattered in that game. starstorm is a great spell.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
If you cast Browbeat when you are already winning you are probably still going to win no matter what option they give you. If you are losing this card will NOT dig you out and save you smiting your enemies to the ground. If the game is close, well then so be it. You can maybe draw, maybe take 5, whatever your opponent chooses.
the really important difference between browbeat and denial is that your opponent chooses what browbeat does and you choose what denial does. putting their spell in the graveyard for 1U is a lot different than damage to a player that they can counter if they need to. it's actually kind of the opposite of that, since in the first example i have total control over your spell and in the second you have the control.
AD will not save you from a dead on board situation, or dig you out of a hole. It is in essence a delaying tactic that will stem the tide and allow you to gain or maintain an advantage but will not bring you back from a failing board state. AD is a win more card.
AD prolongs the game and gives them more cards to beat you with
not a fan of any tempo cards, then? "it's just a delaying tactic" is something that can be said for a ton of strong cube cards. tangle wire and (more relevantly) memory lapse and remand are "delaying tactics." delaying your opponent matters.
But Jace will not give your opponent cards if you do not want them to have them.
that's a good point, but i would be surprised if the average jace play didn't involve the +2 eventually. he doesn't start to give you really good CA until you use it, so if you're going to -1 to death every time you would have been better off running a straight draw spell. a suspend draw 3 for 1UU is really not backbreaking. so my point stands: allowing the opponent to draw is not an automatic deal breaker. it's a drawback that can be worth it given the effect.
and it wasn't my intention to compare them directly, i was just trying to analyze one of the drawbacks of the card by looking at it in another card. an important point in the jace/denial comparison is that drawing three cards over several turns for 1UU is a weaker effect than countering someone's spell for 1U right now.
If you are running Arcane Denial to be a a counterspell for late game bombs
where is this assumption coming from? denial counters all spells, late game and early game (when you may not easily have double blue open).
The milling argument is valid for ...milling. Cards are going to the graveyard that they will probably never see so they might as well be going to the bottom of their deck. Drawing your opponent's extra cards is so not even close to milling the opponents cards. It is giving them options and you do not know what your opponent needs.
i didn't say it was milling, i said your argument was similar to the argument for milling being beneficial: "you are removing all their good cards from their deck." in actuality, you are removing random cards and the milling can either mill what they need or mill everything on top of what they need. you said denial is bad because it lets them draw fixing early and bombs late. this is a silly argument because it lets them draw random cards: neither of you have any control over these cards, so there is no statistical likelihood of them drawing fixing early or bombs late. they could draw bombs early and fixing late.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
We can argue this one until I am blue in the face and I won't be able to change anyones opinion so I wont.
why does this conversation has to be so confrontational? i'm perfectly willing to entertain different views and i've changed my mind on plenty of cards after discussing them. i haven't been convinced by arguments against denial, but it's not because i'm stubborn or narrow minded. i haven't been convinced because the arguments haven't been convincing. if they were, i'd be happy to reevaluate the card and watch how it performs in my cube.
Arcane Denial is the bad part of Path to Exile possibly manafixing your opponent early, or giving them bombs/getting rid of their dead draw's late.
or drawing them exactly what they don't need. this argument sounds a little like the arguments about milling. what they draw is random, so there can't be any statistical +/- to it. certainly, card disadvantage is bad and letting your opponent draw even when it's card parity is a drawback. but not because the draw is always going to be what they need.
i take your point about path to exile being consistent in its drawback.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
my problem with the arguments against denial is they never adequately explain why the same effects in other cards are not bad. jace beleren gives your opponents cards, and yet it is excellent in the cube. path, tutors, etc all give your opponent the same amount of card advantage. why is -1 CD on other cards ok, and letting your opponent draw from jace is ok, but letting your opponent draw and getting -1 CD on denial is unacceptable? is it the combination of the two? why?
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
does anyone feel the need to say this about path to exile or vampiric tutor? because of the way the card is worded, i think people get hung up on the card disadvantage of arcane denial while ignoring or accepting the same -1 on other popular cube cards.
When I see Healing Salve, I'm often like "Oh girl, I wish I could turn every card into this." Thanks they removed the gain life part, otherwise this would have been broken.
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OUT --> IN
nezumi shortfang --> vampire interloper
night's whisper --> diregraf ghoul
you'd increase your creature count and get two good aggro creatures in at the same time. i am not going to cut shortfang come innistrad, but i would be fine with cutting him for an aggressive black creature in the future. and i'd cut him before ogre marauder, who i've had nothing but good experiences with.
i like farseek the most as a cut but if you want to lose a creature i'd look at rampaging baloths, mold shambler, or viridian zealot.
i find that very surprising!
i really like ogre marauder and can second calibretto's recommendation. as i said in my thread recently, i've never been disappointed. he does exactly what i want him to do. i run him and don't run terror and you're running a lot of spot removal so i think it's fine to remove your worst kill spell.
nether void and gerrard's verdict are two additional disruption effects i'm running that give black aggro more oomph. you could cut barter in blood or makeshift mannequin for the former and stillmoon cavalier for the latter.
how has black aggro been performing?
it would be great if you could play it at instant speed. sigh.
flame javelin looks like a good cut for slagstorm.
hard counter - 1U
instant
counter target spell. its controller draws a card.
path variant - W
instant
exile target creature. its controller draws a card.
i'm just curious, because they both would go directly into my cube if they were printed.
the really important difference between browbeat and denial is that your opponent chooses what browbeat does and you choose what denial does. putting their spell in the graveyard for 1U is a lot different than damage to a player that they can counter if they need to. it's actually kind of the opposite of that, since in the first example i have total control over your spell and in the second you have the control.
not a fan of any tempo cards, then? "it's just a delaying tactic" is something that can be said for a ton of strong cube cards. tangle wire and (more relevantly) memory lapse and remand are "delaying tactics." delaying your opponent matters.
that's a good point, but i would be surprised if the average jace play didn't involve the +2 eventually. he doesn't start to give you really good CA until you use it, so if you're going to -1 to death every time you would have been better off running a straight draw spell. a suspend draw 3 for 1UU is really not backbreaking. so my point stands: allowing the opponent to draw is not an automatic deal breaker. it's a drawback that can be worth it given the effect.
and it wasn't my intention to compare them directly, i was just trying to analyze one of the drawbacks of the card by looking at it in another card. an important point in the jace/denial comparison is that drawing three cards over several turns for 1UU is a weaker effect than countering someone's spell for 1U right now.
where is this assumption coming from? denial counters all spells, late game and early game (when you may not easily have double blue open).
i didn't say it was milling, i said your argument was similar to the argument for milling being beneficial: "you are removing all their good cards from their deck." in actuality, you are removing random cards and the milling can either mill what they need or mill everything on top of what they need. you said denial is bad because it lets them draw fixing early and bombs late. this is a silly argument because it lets them draw random cards: neither of you have any control over these cards, so there is no statistical likelihood of them drawing fixing early or bombs late. they could draw bombs early and fixing late.
why does this conversation has to be so confrontational? i'm perfectly willing to entertain different views and i've changed my mind on plenty of cards after discussing them. i haven't been convinced by arguments against denial, but it's not because i'm stubborn or narrow minded. i haven't been convinced because the arguments haven't been convincing. if they were, i'd be happy to reevaluate the card and watch how it performs in my cube.
why not? what's the point of even posting something like this when it doesn't further the discussion at all?
unless you never use the +2 at any point, jace draws your opponent cards. my question is why is that ok for jace but bad for denial?
this is a pretty bad comparison since being splashable is one of the pros of denial. would i run
1U
counter target spell. its controller draws a card.
? yeah, i would. would i run
W
instant
exile target creature. its controller draws a card.
? yeah, i would run that, too.
or drawing them exactly what they don't need. this argument sounds a little like the arguments about milling. what they draw is random, so there can't be any statistical +/- to it. certainly, card disadvantage is bad and letting your opponent draw even when it's card parity is a drawback. but not because the draw is always going to be what they need.
i take your point about path to exile being consistent in its drawback.
does anyone feel the need to say this about path to exile or vampiric tutor? because of the way the card is worded, i think people get hung up on the card disadvantage of arcane denial while ignoring or accepting the same -1 on other popular cube cards.