MTG Salvation

i think fow could work, but it would not be so awesome in this deck since you need something to pitch for.

since this deck is slow I was thinking about lotus bloom. It can replace the first LED, what do you guys think?

I see. The u/b version seems like it's 1 or 2 turns slower than the original ddft (mainly because LDV doesn't draw the card and the lack of LED for ramping mana).

So by the time we can combo out we'll usually be already dead. Maybe more discard like hymn to tourach or even control spells like innocent blood and mana leak could help surviving until then.

Sac Land Tendrils used to have Burning Wish and now uses Past in Flames. What if we ran Doomsday instead of PiF?

Something like

Probably. But sensei's divining top really works on DDFT because they play fetch lands. And they also have LED to make a lot more mana than we can.

I'm thinking on a build like this



But I really don't know if it's possible to generate enough mana to cast DD. DDFT plays LED, that generates UUU or BBB for 0, while dark ritual only generates BB and cabal only B, so in order to get 6 mana will require a lot of preparation.

What I'm worried is how you're going to cast 4 spells before DD (to achieve 10 storm). The conditions are very harsh, because you'll also need 2UBBB (Meditate + Doomsday) AND a Gitaxian Probe on hand, or 2UUBBB with preordain/ponder on hand. With sacland each land generates 2 mana and on DDFT they rely on Sensei's Divining Top to get a free draw, so they do not suffer from this.

If you have only PtD on your hand, then you'll need 3UUBBB to go off with DD, which is VERY hard to achieve, since you won't have tresh for Cabal Ritual.

What about Blood Celebrant? To me it seems a good mana filter, since you'll generate tons of black mana anyways

I think with this hatebear every non Death and Taxes deck will suffer a lot. Actually it's a great anti-blue card.

For protecting against hate we have Chain of Vapor that is simply awesome. Cast it on your Lotus Petal to get +1 storm, then sac a land to bounce the hate.

I see, the U/B version of this deck could use some Peer Through Dephts (although Lim Dul's Vault does it better). The main problem I see with U/B is how you're going to make U when going off, since you will generate lots of BBB and none U.

I like it, since it helps a lot finding Doomsday but I don't know if it's viable since it needs U, which this deck suffers a lot to make.

It's a different matter with Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain though, because you can cast it via Ancient Spring. To be able to get 1U you'd need to wait till turn 3+ or use some valuable filter like Manamorphose/Lotus Petal, which would be a huge drawback if you're not going to combo on the same turn.

The main problem with DD is that you need to be sure that you'll win when you go off. If you don't have DD in hand or some way to tutor for it then you shouldn't go off. That's why DD decks never fizzles and is also why people avoid it, sometimes you simply cannot find a way out and it can be very frustating.

@Heskatet
Yeah, basically you'll need to cast like 3-4 spells before Doomsday (usually draw and mana spells) in order to achieve 10 storm with Tendrills.

The most common piles will go like Meditate/Infernal Contract, mana/anti-hate, mana, mana, Tendrills of Agony. Just draw Meditate/Infernal Contract with Gitaxian Probe or Manamorphose then draw the rest of the pile.

However, if you go for the Ideas Unbound route, you could do something like Manamorphose, Ideas Unbound, mana/anti-hate, mana, Tendrills of Agony if you don't have UU or Ideas Unbound, mana/anti-hate, mana, cantrip, Tendrills of Agony.

The basic piles are very simple, the hard part is adapting them to your need depending on the situation.

About playing around counters: well, Doomsday don't play around it, since the opponent will just counter it instead of the pile. That's why we need to run protections like Duress, Cabal Therapy and Silence to ensure that we can cast Doomsday for the win.

On the original version of this deck, the main budget problem is burning wish which skyrocketed in price and is a core card for this deck.

Has anyone tried with other tutors like plunge into darkness or spoils of the vault? Is the lifeloss too much that you can't use doomsday afterwards? I personally don't think so, since you'll be running 4 copies of DD maindeck but even so it could be problematic.

Any thoughts?