Doesn't multiple lilianas kill themselves? 4 lilianas is overkill -- you only want a 4 of a card that you can cast early (turn 1 or 2), cast often, and benefit multiple copies of.
Off hand I'd say put in some dark rituals to enable you to get an arena/spectre in play earlier.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
You are attempting to run spells with BB and UU without duals. That's not going to work. In fact, even with duals I'd heavily recommend not running counterspell. Play mana leak if you absolutely have to run counters. Mishra's factory, which is colorless, makes the problem worse.
In general, though, it isn't a good strategy. Part of the problem, aside from color coordination, is that you tend to spend your mana during your turn to cast discard spells, leaving you tapped and unable to counter.
For example, its turn 2. What is your ideal lands in that situation? If you have two swamps, then your'e not casting counterspell any time soon. If you have one or two islands, your hymn is stuck in your hand.
Let's say you get duals and manage to plop down two underground seas. Do you cast hymn, or do you wait to cast counterspell?
Same thing during turn 3.
In fact, the deck only really runs smoothly turn 4, and that's assuming you have 2 black sources and 2 blue sources of mana.
Hi, i have mono B discard deck. We are playing only 2HG and only with same 6 people, always they got: R/B madness, Reanimator, U control, R burn i B/G fungus. I'm searching for help in my deck which will better against they decks. We are playing with all formats and always 2v2.
Your opponents are playing madness and reanimator.
I'm sorry to say, but discard is not the way to beat madness and reanimator. Reanimator MAYBE can be dealt with by mainddeck 4xleyline of the void, and/or aggressive pinpoint discard (duress, thoughtseize), followed by high power, low-cost creatures (4x phyrexian negator) but madness is not something discard was meant to beat except by sheer luck. Burn is also pretty horrid matchup.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
I'm on a budget, so that's why i am running Mind Wrench instead of Hymn to Tourach.
Does any1 have comments or criticismk to the deck?
Add 4x Dark ritual. Dark ritual is key to having a hypnotic as early as possible.
Infest doesn't really work with your creatures. Get other removal. spinning darkness is both cheap and effective since you will likely fill up your graveyard with black spells quickly. +1 Doomblade also works.
Geth's grimoire isn't very useful, due to its cost. While it might seem good (my discard spells double as draw), the 4cc cost means that very, very likely you're already spent most of your discard spells, or your opponent is already low on hand. Straight up draw like night's whisper is cheap and more effective.
I don't think he was acting like an ass at all. There are plenty of casual playgroups where anything goes, so long as you can afford it.
I hardly think it's fair to criticize him simply because his playgroup follows different rules, or to call him an ass simply for pointing out that casual magic has no banned or restricted list.
Edit: to keep from getting infracted for spam, i would suggest against running contract from below, as it would be useless in any game not being played for ante.
wait... did I stumble into the vintage or legacy forums where those lists actually matter?
No, but if you look at the post above you, quite a number of casual players don't like seeing banned and restricted cards. If it doesn't matter, then run contract from below. This isn't a matter of you stumbling into the legacy or vintage forums, but you acting like an ass.
But, hey, anything to win, right?
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
15 swamps will not get you anywhere. As it is, this deck should have at least 22 lands, maybe 20 if you cut out the higher casting cost spells (ie all cards over 3cc).
Seriously, you have 5cc spells in this deck. On a deck with 15 lands, you're casting spells like monomania on turn 15, and your creatures on turn 13 on average. 4 dark rituals will alleviate this by a few turns (your creatures start appearing on average of turn 8 or something), and that's assuming that you're not using them to cast your non creature spells.
Seriously, add 7 more lands and cut out the higher cost spells.
Also, what's the opinion on Haunting Echoes? Seems like a pretty powerful card, but nobody seems to have mentioned it.
Its not a good card.
1) It doesn't affect board position in any way. Whatever threats are on the table, they're still there.
2) unless you completely empty your opponent's, mathematically haunting echoes is little more than an extra-strength, high cost mill card.
Sure, there will be instances when you cast haunting echoes and manage to snag all your opponent's win conditions and force a concession... but it isn't often. Most of the time, it is a dead card, or a win-more card (ie you're already winning, haunting echoes just seals the deal, but doesn't actually contribute to winning).
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Replace counterspell with a spell with a less restrictive cost [mana leak, for example).
Glimpse the unthinkable doesn't do anything for this deck and should be removed. It makes for a cute combo with haunting echoes, but your discard spells are enough for that purpose.
Ostracize is terrible for a discard effect. I'd rather play blackmail over it, and blackmail is bad, too.
Brainstorm without some way of shuffling your deck isn't too hot.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
If you;re going to fool around with entomb-exhume, might as well play Iona, Shield of emeria. I mean, are you attacking with the creatures or using them for draw? IF for draw, then arcanis the omnipotent) is better. If you're attacking, then use iona.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Good to know. It's cheap. What about Necropotence? I have one with me. Can I just throw it in the deck or I need to rethink this deck if going to use Necropotence in it?
Necropotence is a powerhouse. You can only play one if following vintage rules, though. There's no need to build around it. You can just toss it in. Old necropotence decks used to build around it (such as playing nevinyrall's disk in order to get rid of your own necro if it gets inconvenient, plus nevinyrall's disk doubles as creature control) or cards like ivory tower to regain life after your hand is full), but it isn't necessary.
And if you're following vintage rules, might as well toss in a stripmine and a yawgmoth's will. For a tutor, there's demonic tutor. If you make those changes (necropotence, demonic tutor and yawgmoth's will), replace corrupt with 1 or 2 tendrils of agony. Those cards turn the deck into a semi-combo or sorts, an alternate win condition that's potentially more devastating than corrupt.
Off hand I'd say put in some dark rituals to enable you to get an arena/spectre in play earlier.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Its possible to make a UB with discard.
Just don't mix spells like counterspell and hymn to tourach together.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
In general, though, it isn't a good strategy. Part of the problem, aside from color coordination, is that you tend to spend your mana during your turn to cast discard spells, leaving you tapped and unable to counter.
For example, its turn 2. What is your ideal lands in that situation? If you have two swamps, then your'e not casting counterspell any time soon. If you have one or two islands, your hymn is stuck in your hand.
Let's say you get duals and manage to plop down two underground seas. Do you cast hymn, or do you wait to cast counterspell?
Same thing during turn 3.
In fact, the deck only really runs smoothly turn 4, and that's assuming you have 2 black sources and 2 blue sources of mana.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Your opponents are playing madness and reanimator.
I'm sorry to say, but discard is not the way to beat madness and reanimator. Reanimator MAYBE can be dealt with by mainddeck 4xleyline of the void, and/or aggressive pinpoint discard (duress, thoughtseize), followed by high power, low-cost creatures (4x phyrexian negator) but madness is not something discard was meant to beat except by sheer luck. Burn is also pretty horrid matchup.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Add 4x Dark ritual. Dark ritual is key to having a hypnotic as early as possible.
Infest doesn't really work with your creatures. Get other removal. spinning darkness is both cheap and effective since you will likely fill up your graveyard with black spells quickly. +1 Doomblade also works.
Geth's grimoire isn't very useful, due to its cost. While it might seem good (my discard spells double as draw), the 4cc cost means that very, very likely you're already spent most of your discard spells, or your opponent is already low on hand. Straight up draw like night's whisper is cheap and more effective.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Considering that I know very well that that's what pother people consider as casual and I have defended it before, I have this to say:
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
No, but if you look at the post above you, quite a number of casual players don't like seeing banned and restricted cards. If it doesn't matter, then run contract from below. This isn't a matter of you stumbling into the legacy or vintage forums, but you acting like an ass.
But, hey, anything to win, right?
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Given that memory jar is banned/restricted (same with necropotence), yeah, this deck _would_ get a reaction.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Seriously, you have 5cc spells in this deck. On a deck with 15 lands, you're casting spells like monomania on turn 15, and your creatures on turn 13 on average. 4 dark rituals will alleviate this by a few turns (your creatures start appearing on average of turn 8 or something), and that's assuming that you're not using them to cast your non creature spells.
Seriously, add 7 more lands and cut out the higher cost spells.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Its not a good card.
1) It doesn't affect board position in any way. Whatever threats are on the table, they're still there.
2) unless you completely empty your opponent's, mathematically haunting echoes is little more than an extra-strength, high cost mill card.
Sure, there will be instances when you cast haunting echoes and manage to snag all your opponent's win conditions and force a concession... but it isn't often. Most of the time, it is a dead card, or a win-more card (ie you're already winning, haunting echoes just seals the deal, but doesn't actually contribute to winning).
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Glimpse the unthinkable doesn't do anything for this deck and should be removed. It makes for a cute combo with haunting echoes, but your discard spells are enough for that purpose.
Ostracize is terrible for a discard effect. I'd rather play blackmail over it, and blackmail is bad, too.
Brainstorm without some way of shuffling your deck isn't too hot.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Add 8 swamps. Seriously, this deck lacks land.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Necropotence is a powerhouse. You can only play one if following vintage rules, though. There's no need to build around it. You can just toss it in. Old necropotence decks used to build around it (such as playing nevinyrall's disk in order to get rid of your own necro if it gets inconvenient, plus nevinyrall's disk doubles as creature control) or cards like ivory tower to regain life after your hand is full), but it isn't necessary.
And if you're following vintage rules, might as well toss in a stripmine and a yawgmoth's will. For a tutor, there's demonic tutor. If you make those changes (necropotence, demonic tutor and yawgmoth's will), replace corrupt with 1 or 2 tendrils of agony. Those cards turn the deck into a semi-combo or sorts, an alternate win condition that's potentially more devastating than corrupt.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn