- Seven fetches has worked out fine for me. Twilight Mire should probably be a Fire-Lit Thicket, but I don't currently own one. I also found Horizon Canopy to be underwhelming (and painful). Since I don't run Lingering Souls, I didn't need four white sources. Plus, I couldn't instant-speed dredge Life from the Loam in response to, say, Extirpate.
- Two Inquisition of Kozilek should help me disrupt the early game, a problem I often faced with this deck. T1 I nabbed Relic of Progenitus against Tron and Aether Vial against Merfolk in my testing. They're not very good topdecks, so I'm only playing two, but I don't normally topdeck in the late game anyways because I'm dredging.
- I moved my three sweepers to the sideboard in favor of two Flame Jabs, which may or may not be correct. Too often I wish I had recurring damage sources that could kill higher toughness dudes (especially in my tournament experiences against Pod decks that played cards like Restoration Angel), and my Pyroclasms weren't blowing out my opponent often enough. I'm curious to know what, say, the creature-less Jund players think of maindeck 'Clasms.
- Most often I wished Sun Titan was any other fatty because I didn't always have a Liliana of the Veil or a Seismic Assault in the graveyard (and don't play Eternal Witness), so I swapped him out for a Griselbrand. The lifelink was relevant in many games, and drawing seven cards is insane in any format.
- I want to find room for a Mulch effect, but I can't find a cut. Stinkweed Imp, even as a one-of, does absolute work in enabling the combo. Drown in Filth has been surprisingly good, too, and you can never have too much removal, right?
- I think my sideboard covers most of the metagame (except against other graveyard strategies, but the only prevalent one seems to be Living End, which is great for me). Any suggestions, though?
Hey, y'all, I've been mulling over my Reanimator list, and I've got some questions.
- What do you guys thinking of Massacre Wurm and/or Inkwell Leviathan as sideboard targets? I can sometimes win with Wurm on the spot. Having a second pseudo-wrath creature might be awesome. Regarding Leviathan, I've found that when I'm playing against decks with hard removal (Jund: Terminate, Maelstrom Pulse; UWR: Path to Exile) or bounce (Merfolk: Vapor Snag; any deck with Cryptic Command), I've wished I had access to a un-targetable creature. Leviathan checks off lots of boxes for me, and I'm curious if you guys think it deserves consideration.
- I feel that I need an efficient way to answer Wurmcoil Engine, so how about a couple Path to Exile in the sideboard? And what about Hide // Seek? I've never played with this card, but shuffling in Wurmcoils seems pretty good. It can also nab enchantments, so I could bring it in against Rest in Peace, Blood Moon, Leyline of Sanctity, and Leyline of the Void, too. Feels like a flexible sideboard option. Thoughts?
- What about one Pithing Needle in the main? There are many relevant targets in game 1: Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, Relic of Progenitus (against RG Tron), Birthing Pod, Glen Elendra Archmage, Aether Vial, manlands threatening to kill us, etc. And we can get it back with Sun Titan if we mill it.
- Is it heresy to go down to two Lilianas? Against aggro decks, I've boarded her out often, so perhaps a fifth monster would be better in the third Liliana slot. The speculator in me thinks that Wild Nacatl might get unbanned, so I'd rather have a fifth maindeck monster in the third Liliana spot to increase my odds of assembling a fast combo. And with the two Stinkweed Imps now in the deck (which I love, btw), I'm not as worried about having enough ways to bin idiots. Maybe I put the third in the side(?). With the ability to recur her with Titan, I think going down to two could be fine. I'd like opinions, though.
OK, guys, three round tournament, I went 1-1-1, beating UB Mill (which, to put it mildly, is a pretty good matchup for me!), losing to RG Tron, and drawing with THE MIRROR! Yes, it was a strange tournament. Here's the 75 I played:
Round 1: UB Mill, won 2-1 (1-0)
- Game 1, I ground him down with Raven's Crime and made him sacrifice his big dorks like Lazav, Dimir Mastermind and Consuming Aberration with Liliana of the Veil. Borborygmos Enraged chucked five lands and won me the game.
- Game 2, I couldn't find any action for a long time. Eventually I reanimated Sun Titan and got Liliana back. I finally found Seismic Assault, attacked with the Titan and put Assault into play, but I was two damage short of a kill that turn. My opponent went Traumatize into Mind Funeral and beat me.
- Game 3 wasn't much of a game at all. Two Life from the Loams, T4 Borborygmos, game over.
Takeaways:
- Not much to be said here. This is a dream matchup. I will say, though, that I think we need access to three Borborygmos. Five Assault effects gives the deck more consistency. Most often, he is our win condition, so we always want to find him. And we need enough copies so that our opponent doesn't cripple our game plan if one of them gets exiled.
Round 2: RG Tron, lost 0-2 (1-1)
- Game 1, I mulled to six, and my opponent kept a one-lander. He led with Tron land -> Expedition Map and missed a land drop on T2. I Abrupt Decayed the Map, which was a huge tempo swing. I tried to race him, but he cracked enough eggs to find Relic of Progenitus. I regrouped and assembled the Ghost Quarter/Life from the Loam engine and had a winning reanimation ready. He topdecked (so he said) a second Relic and thwarted that plan. Eventually two Wurmcoil Engines came to the party - I dealt with one of them - and that was all she wrote. Good game of Magic.
- Game 2, I had to mull to five and had to deal with a natural T3 Tron into Wurmcoil. I stayed alive for awhile, but I couldn't recoup my card disadvantage and got beat down.
Takeaways:
- We have SO many dead cards in game 1, and yet it will still competitive. This might have been due to my opponent's lackluster start, but I felt encouraged.
- I brought in NINE cards from the sideboard. Even so, there were cards I wish I had access to: Stony Silence and Path to Exile. Because the matchup is so tough for us, I think we need to seriously consider these. If we're playing Sun Titan, Stony Silence seems good, as we can disinter it with the Titan trigger. It's also an effective card against Affinity. What are people's thoughts on Path?
- I need to improve my game pacing. I think I'm overextending into the graveyard too often because I'm trying to leverage my tempo and card advantages. Relic is especially devastating because they can instantly activate it, as opposed to a card like Deathrite Shaman that needs to untap. I need Horizon Canopy in the main to dredge in response to Relic activations.
- What about one Pithing Needle main? It can name Relic, Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, something dumb that's beating us ... and if we mill it, we can always get it back with Titan.
Round 3: Reanimator mirror, drew 1-1-1 (1-1-1)
- I got paired against my buddy, who normally pilots Jund, but felt saucy last night after testing with me last week. Game 1, I was on the draw. We each Loam-ed for a few turns, and I landed the first Borborygmos. He killed it with (I believe) a Terminate and reanimated his own Borborygmos. I then hard-cast Unburial Rites, targeted Sun Titan, exhumed Liliana of the Veil, and used her "-2". Next attack step, I put Seismic Assault into play and was able to deal lethal.
- Game 2 was a game of chicken for the first six or so turns. He played two early Deathrite Shamans, so I basically went "land-go" and cast a Stinkweed Imp in the first four or five turns. The Imp kept his Raging Ravine at bay. On turn five or six, I cast Assault but had to play Life from the Loam to get enough lands back to deal with both Shamans. He exiled my first Loam - not a big deal, I had another in hand. He then hard-cast Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, and I responded with a reanimated Elesh Norn of my own. He then got Borborygmos into play, which dealt with my 2/5 Elesh Norn with two land chucks. I lost on the next attack step.
- Game 3, we both had to play quickly because of the time left in the round. We each tried to assemble our combo, but he couldn't find Rites. If I got to untap on T6, I had the lethal reanimation ready to rage, but he exiled my graveyard with Rakdos Charm. Included in that dross was my last fetch-able red source. So I had to find one of my other seven red sources to cast Assault, which I eventually did on T5 of turns. I was one land short of inflicting lethal damage.
Takeaways:
- Sun Titan won me a game. I saw what it could do. It's powerful, yes, but I think it's a contingency plan in case we can't get Borborygmos into play. I haven't played many decks packing Path to Exile, though, so perhaps having a reanimation target with an "enters-the-battlefield" trigger that advances our board state is a must. I do think we need three Borborygmos, though, so what do y'all think of five monsters in the deck?
Overall, this was a weird field, but I had a lot of fun. I sleeved up Deathmark because I saw four Pod players before the tournament started. Stinkweed Imp helped the deck a LOT - two copies felt right. I didn't get to cast Drown in Filth, but it woulda' been good in a lot of late game situations.
Great to see a kindred spirit, bGnomes! I like the Drown in Filth idea. Maybe I'll try one in this Modern tourney tonight. I can only play a couple rounds cuz I've gotta get into the recording studio, but I could use the reps.
Agreed on Terminate. That turned into a second Abrupt Decay. And I think Stinkweed Imp is gonna make a huge difference in my deck. Excited to try it!
I've opted not to include Lingering Souls because I've found them to be clunky. You're not always gonna find Elesh Norn, and Imp does Souls' job of staving off (and even deterring) attacks more efficiently as well as dredges five. But an argument can certainly be made for Souls. And I may try Sun Titan tonight, too. Getting back binned Liliana of the Veil is livin' the dream! And when I get my Arid Mesas, I'm gonna include one or two Flame Jabs. Fetching for a basic Mountain is something I think this deck could use.
Hi, Muten Yoshi! Four might be too many, but I always want to see it, and people constantly try to remove it with their hate. I've considered going down to three copies, though, especially now that I've added Stinkweed Imp to the deck and am able to more efficiently flip my library into my graveyard. It's not a Gifts deck, where the four copies of Gifts can find one or two Unburial Rites - essentially Gifts functions as the four copies of Rites. Plus, people who have experimented with this deck a lot (Travis Woo and Owen Turtenwald, namely) have all said that they want four copies. Hard to argue with them! I'll try three and see what happens.
I'm fetching for basic Forest a LOT. I think this build will be optimized with about 2-3 Arid Mesas. Kinda bummed out that they haven't come yet. If I could add a basic Mountain, I'd also add the Horizon Canopy, as I wouldn't be as worried about the life loss. With only two basics, though, I'm gonna leave the Canopy out for now. Also, if/when I play Mesas/Mountain, I may add at least one Flame Jab into the 75 somewhere. It wasn't very good in the black fetch build 'cuz, well, I didn't get R mana as often.
Good luck, mykatdied! If I don't have to be in the recording studio tomorrow (Thursday) night, I'm gonna play another tournament at a different store.
All good observations you made.
- Bojuka Bog is getting cut. I feel fine playing against other graveyard-centric decks like Living End and 4C Gifts, so I don't think I need any hate.
- If I add Horizon Canopy, I'll probably cut Sacred Foundry.
- I wasn't sure about Terminate going into the tournament, but you're probably right - just a worse Lightning Axe. That may turn into a second Abrupt Decay in the main, though (with two still in the side). It was good almost all the time.
- Not sure what to do about Flame Jab. I played one and was rather unimpressed. Could be my matchups, though, replete with Lords and persist creatures and 4-toughness Angels and flash creatures.
- I just never drew Timely Reinforcements, but in testing, every time I cast it, it was awesome (especially if I got Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite into play). I'm gonna keep them in for now so I can try to get them some in-game action. They could possibly be swapped out for an Anger of the Gods (which might be more effective against aggro matchups but less so against Burn) and something else. Not sure yet.
- I'm considering playing one Slaughter Games in the side, but I might be too slow for it. Other options include a third Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek (like you said) or a fourth Raven's Crime. Dreadbore might be interesting, too, but I'd really only need it for Karn Liberated.
- Should I try Ajani Vengeant in the sideboard? The Helix could really help. It can also keep Tarmogoyfs and other mean idiots tapped down. I really struggled against aggressive starts, so it might be good.
As of right now, here's my updated list (with black fetches for now - haven't gotten my Arid Mesas in the mail from Canada yet):
I'm adding Lavaclaw Reaches instead of Bojuka Bog as another way to win in case all my cards get hated out.
EDIT: Would Damnation be better than Anger of the Gods in the 8-black-fetch build? It's a turn slower, but it kills everything and is more amenable to this manabase.
OK, guys, it wasn't my night, but some of that was due to loose play and variance. I went 1-3, beating 4C Gifts and losing to Kiki-Pod, Merfolk (a misplay probably cost me the match), and Twin (flooded out super hard in game 3). I learned a lot about the deck, though, and feel that it can be improved.
After talking to some locals, I switched around my sideboard before the tournament. Here's what I ran:
Takeaways:
- Raven's Crime is insane against control/combo.
- Consider adding a Horizon Canopy to the manabase so we can dredge in response to graveyard hate.
Round 2: Kiki-Pod, lost 0-2 (1-1)
- Game 1, I kept a combo-centric hand in the blind and saw T2 Domri Rade net a ton of value. I tried to race - I had the pieces to reanimate on T4 - but he found Glen Elendra Archmage. I tried to Flame Jab to deal with Archmage, but he responded with Restoration Angel. Yup, off to game 2.
- Game 2, I kept a removal-heavy hand and Abrupt Decayed Noble Heirarch. He came with a T3 Domri, which got Decayed, but still drew him a creature. (I believe it was a third Heirarch.) Eventually he wore out my removal, and an exalted Resto beat me down. I couldn't find any of my dredgers that game. Perhaps a hand of three lands, 2 Decays, 1 Terminate and an Unburial Rites isn't a keep(?).
Takeaways:
- I never felt in the game in this matchup. I may have to reevaluate my sideboard.
- Lightning Axe is a swingy card. The good - it puts stuff into the graveyard and can kill things that Lightning Bolt and Decay can't; the bad - it doesn't deal with planeswalkers. Game 1, I had an Axe in my hand, which desperately wanted to deal with Domri. Alas. I don't know what to do with those two slots.
- Decay probably isn't as good as I thought it would be in that matchup. The two Pithing Needles would've been nice to see.
Round 3: Merfolk, lost 1-2 (1-2)
- Game 1, I took a lot of damage from my lands, and he got two Lords out early. I had a T4 reanimation at the ready, but he played Thassa, God of the Sea T3 and Cursecatcher T4. Then I took 13 damage for exactsies. Sad.
- Game 2, Pyroclasm. 'Nuff said. Combo win.
- Game 3 was a loose one for me. He started playing threats, and I killed them. Idiotically, I fetched for a fourth land against Tectonic Edge, realizing what I did as soon as I cracked Marsh Flats. I'll learn. But I reanimated a Borborygmos (which would've been great if it were Iona, Shield of Emeria, but I don't own one yet), which got Vapor Snagged - forgot about that card! He eventually got three Lords out while I started to regroup. I killed Lord of Atlantis, leaving him with two Master of the Pearl Trident. Come onnnnnnn, Maelstrom Pulse! Stupidly, I forgot about the one point from Snag or I missed a fetch crack or something because I thought I was at 5 life and made a play with Flame Jab and an untapped red source that I thought would buy me a turn. (I thought I would've gone to 1 life.) Turns out, I was at 4 life and dead on the next attack. If I had gone with the other line of flashing back Faithless Looting, I would've found Decay and Axe and stabilized. Oops.
Takeaways:
- Count!
- I may want an Anger of the Gods in my sideboard as a third wrath effect in my 75. It kills single-pumped Merfolk and would probably be good against Pod decks, too.
- My mana hurt me in game 1, as I could've reanimated Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or Borborygmos if I had survived that 13-point attack. I may consider a couple Arid Mesas and a basic Mountain (and probably a second Graven Cairns in that case, too). I wanted to fetch for red a fair amount, and being able to save 2 life could be huge. Not sure, though, 'cuz that might make my Crimes worse. What do y'all think?
Round 4: Twin, lost 1-2 (1-3)
- Game 1, I Crime-d my way through three consecutive cantrips and eventually ground out a Borborygmos win.
- Game 2, T1 Relic of Progenitus. I didn't find any of my Decays for it, and I had to play more cautiously than I would've liked. More experience against that card would definitely have helped, as I might not have played optimally. Eventually Grim Lavamancer + Vendilion Clique (whose trigger put a monster on the bottom) beat me down.
- Game 3, T1 Relic again. This time I mulliganed to a (six-card) hand with Decay in it, so I dealt with it. I was beginning to assemble the combo, but he Clique-d away my Life from the Loam. I then drew six lands in seven draw steps (the other card being Unburial Rites) and lost to Batterskull.
Takeaways:
- This matchup felt winnable. I don't think I'd change too much to combat it.
Overall, I had fun playing it, but I think it could use a little more dredge. Dakmor Salvage was awesome all tournament, so that definitely stays in. I don't think Darkblast is where I want to be right now, though. I struggled with big flyers, so how 'bout a couple Stinkweed Imps instead of the Mulch/Grisly Salvage? Dredging five cards would be awesome, and it gives me a formidable, recurring blocker against aggressive decks. Hopefully I play a little tighter next time and draw a little more action.
Feel free to ask questions, provide comments, and excoriate me for playing super terribly against Merfolk!
That's why I'm struggling with the Deathrite Shaman build. Those four slots are really valuable in a deck that wants the resources to play against aggro OR combo/control. If I prioritize combo, I'd have to cut LOTS of removal and/or control cards like Liliana of the Veil. Then again, if I'm the control player, why even have Shamans in the first place when I could be playing four pieces of removal and making my Pyroclasms perfect? Tricky, tricky!
Agreed about Mulch. It sets up the combo and often reads "1G: Draw two or three (and sometimes four) cards." A couple copies have to be in there. I haven't tried Grisly Salvage because my deck wants creatures in the yard and not in the hand and often doesn't generate as much card advantage as Mulch, but I'll test a copy before I play tonight and see how it goes. Now that you mention it, we DO have a lot of Affinity tech, with maindeck Pyroclasms and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. Maybe one copy of Ancient Grudge and one Damnation as a catch-all sweeper that I can bring in for other matchups like Bogles, too? Not sure.
@mykatdied, Leyline of the Void and Leyline of Sanctity - do people play them? EDIT: I care about Blood Moon, too, but Abrupt Decay can take care of that and is probably better overall, though, you're right. Also, I might not roll with the Shamans. In goldfishing, I just never seem to get enough lands in my hand to do anything productive with Raven's Crime or Assault effects. I thought it would speed up my combo, but since I'm diluting my deck by cutting enablers like Mulch for Shamans, it hasn't gotten any faster.
My mana base looks VERY painful. I guess it doesn't matter, though, 'cuz I'm trying to kill on T4.
My sideboard needs a LOT of work. I have no idea what's in this metagame, as it's my first time playing at this store. Pithing Needle seems like a good catch-all, turning off hate like Scavenging Ooze and Relic of Progenitus, unfair stuff like Karn Liberated, and manlands like Celestial Colonnade. Timely Reinforcements should be good against Affinity and Burn, and reanimating Elesh Norn after making Soldiers just seems awesome. Should I have access to more than two Abrupt Decays in my 75?
Crucible of Worlds might be good, Capt. Nick. Let us know how it works out. Where ya off to?
I decided that making Gifts Ungiven work is too cumbersome. Leaving 3U untapped when we could be Loaming/Crime-ing/Looting, etc., smells fishy, and our opponent can prepare for it. The mana base is greedy to begin with, and making U for Gifts and W for Rites proved too tough in testing.
A friend of mine suggested adding a playset of Deathrite Shamans to the Reanimator list as a way to speed up the combo by a turn (as well as T2 Liliana of the Veil or Seismic Assault), serve as another quasi-win condition, and draw removal (notably Path to Exile) to increase the survival rate of our monsters. Eating our own lands in a deck that wants to use Life from the Loam might seem like a non-bo (and Shamans make our Pyroclasms a little worse), but my buddy insists that, in his testing against RG Tron, Merfolk, and Affinity, the Shamans were magnificent. Since my Arid Mesas haven't arrived yet - I have a playset of Marsh Flats - I thought I'd give the Shamans a try at a Modern tournament at my LGS tomorrow.
Maybe try 1 or 2 gifts ungiven main board to help assemble and dig for everything you need. You can do something like; Elesh, Borygamos, titan, unburial. Then it is like, choose your death... It can also help you find iona after board. Not sure if it is the perfect answer for you, but it seems like you want a blue splash. 1 of steam vents should do nicely. Maybe a watery grave.
Ooooooh, Gifts Ungiven! Livin' the dream, all five colors. I like that idea a lot, as I could even get Loam, Crime, etc. I want to be able to maximize my ability to fetch for a blue land, so should I run some number of Scalding Tarns instead of Arid Mesas? In that case, I'd run a Watery Grave so I can get it with Verdant Catacombs or Tarn. A configuration like 4 Catacombs/2 Tarns/2 Mesas(?). I'll have to play around.
Most of the Gifts lists I see run 4 Gifts/1 Rites/2 monsters. If I'm gonna run 2 Gifts (which I think is a good number), can I shave off, say, 1 Unburial Rites and something like 1 Mulch? Where would your cuts be?
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4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Raging Ravine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Dakmor Salvage
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Graven Cairns
1 Twilight Mire
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Griselbrand
3 Borborygmos Enraged
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
Enchantments (2)
2 Seismic Assault
Spells (22)
3 Faithless Looting
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Raven's Crime
2 Flame Jab
2 Lightning Axe
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Drown in Filth
4 Life from the Loam
4 Unburial Rites
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
2 Path to Exile
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Stony Silence
1 Ray of Revelation
2 Pyroclasm
1 Damnation
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
- Seven fetches has worked out fine for me. Twilight Mire should probably be a Fire-Lit Thicket, but I don't currently own one. I also found Horizon Canopy to be underwhelming (and painful). Since I don't run Lingering Souls, I didn't need four white sources. Plus, I couldn't instant-speed dredge Life from the Loam in response to, say, Extirpate.
- Two Inquisition of Kozilek should help me disrupt the early game, a problem I often faced with this deck. T1 I nabbed Relic of Progenitus against Tron and Aether Vial against Merfolk in my testing. They're not very good topdecks, so I'm only playing two, but I don't normally topdeck in the late game anyways because I'm dredging.
- I moved my three sweepers to the sideboard in favor of two Flame Jabs, which may or may not be correct. Too often I wish I had recurring damage sources that could kill higher toughness dudes (especially in my tournament experiences against Pod decks that played cards like Restoration Angel), and my Pyroclasms weren't blowing out my opponent often enough. I'm curious to know what, say, the creature-less Jund players think of maindeck 'Clasms.
- Most often I wished Sun Titan was any other fatty because I didn't always have a Liliana of the Veil or a Seismic Assault in the graveyard (and don't play Eternal Witness), so I swapped him out for a Griselbrand. The lifelink was relevant in many games, and drawing seven cards is insane in any format.
- I want to find room for a Mulch effect, but I can't find a cut. Stinkweed Imp, even as a one-of, does absolute work in enabling the combo. Drown in Filth has been surprisingly good, too, and you can never have too much removal, right?
- I think my sideboard covers most of the metagame (except against other graveyard strategies, but the only prevalent one seems to be Living End, which is great for me). Any suggestions, though?
Would love some feedback - thanks, everyone!
- What do you guys thinking of Massacre Wurm and/or Inkwell Leviathan as sideboard targets? I can sometimes win with Wurm on the spot. Having a second pseudo-wrath creature might be awesome. Regarding Leviathan, I've found that when I'm playing against decks with hard removal (Jund: Terminate, Maelstrom Pulse; UWR: Path to Exile) or bounce (Merfolk: Vapor Snag; any deck with Cryptic Command), I've wished I had access to a un-targetable creature. Leviathan checks off lots of boxes for me, and I'm curious if you guys think it deserves consideration.
- I feel that I need an efficient way to answer Wurmcoil Engine, so how about a couple Path to Exile in the sideboard? And what about Hide // Seek? I've never played with this card, but shuffling in Wurmcoils seems pretty good. It can also nab enchantments, so I could bring it in against Rest in Peace, Blood Moon, Leyline of Sanctity, and Leyline of the Void, too. Feels like a flexible sideboard option. Thoughts?
- What about one Pithing Needle in the main? There are many relevant targets in game 1: Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, Relic of Progenitus (against RG Tron), Birthing Pod, Glen Elendra Archmage, Aether Vial, manlands threatening to kill us, etc. And we can get it back with Sun Titan if we mill it.
- Is it heresy to go down to two Lilianas? Against aggro decks, I've boarded her out often, so perhaps a fifth monster would be better in the third Liliana slot. The speculator in me thinks that Wild Nacatl might get unbanned, so I'd rather have a fifth maindeck monster in the third Liliana spot to increase my odds of assembling a fast combo. And with the two Stinkweed Imps now in the deck (which I love, btw), I'm not as worried about having enough ways to bin idiots. Maybe I put the third in the side(?). With the ability to recur her with Titan, I think going down to two could be fine. I'd like opinions, though.
Here's my current list:
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Raging Ravine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Graven Cairns
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Sun Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Borborygmos Enraged
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil
Enchantments (2)
2 Seismic Assault
Spells (22)
4 Faithless Looting
3 Raven's Crime
2 Lightning Axe
2 Pyroclasm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Drown in Filth
4 Life from the Loam
4 Unburial Rites
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
2 Path to Exile
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Stony Silence
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Damnation
1 Terastodon
Thanks!
EDIT: Any banning predictions? Will Deathrite Shaman get the kibosh?
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Raging Ravine
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Graven Cairns
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Sun Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Borborygmos Enraged
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
Enchantments (2)
2 Seismic Assault
Spells (22)
4 Faithless Looting
3 Raven's Crime
2 Lightning Axe
2 Pyroclasm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Drown in Filth
4 Life from the Loam
4 Unburial Rites
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
1 Deathmark
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Damnation
1 Terastodon
Round 1: UB Mill, won 2-1 (1-0)
- Game 1, I ground him down with Raven's Crime and made him sacrifice his big dorks like Lazav, Dimir Mastermind and Consuming Aberration with Liliana of the Veil. Borborygmos Enraged chucked five lands and won me the game.
- Game 2, I couldn't find any action for a long time. Eventually I reanimated Sun Titan and got Liliana back. I finally found Seismic Assault, attacked with the Titan and put Assault into play, but I was two damage short of a kill that turn. My opponent went Traumatize into Mind Funeral and beat me.
- Game 3 wasn't much of a game at all. Two Life from the Loams, T4 Borborygmos, game over.
Takeaways:
- Not much to be said here. This is a dream matchup. I will say, though, that I think we need access to three Borborygmos. Five Assault effects gives the deck more consistency. Most often, he is our win condition, so we always want to find him. And we need enough copies so that our opponent doesn't cripple our game plan if one of them gets exiled.
Round 2: RG Tron, lost 0-2 (1-1)
- Game 1, I mulled to six, and my opponent kept a one-lander. He led with Tron land -> Expedition Map and missed a land drop on T2. I Abrupt Decayed the Map, which was a huge tempo swing. I tried to race him, but he cracked enough eggs to find Relic of Progenitus. I regrouped and assembled the Ghost Quarter/Life from the Loam engine and had a winning reanimation ready. He topdecked (so he said) a second Relic and thwarted that plan. Eventually two Wurmcoil Engines came to the party - I dealt with one of them - and that was all she wrote. Good game of Magic.
- Game 2, I had to mull to five and had to deal with a natural T3 Tron into Wurmcoil. I stayed alive for awhile, but I couldn't recoup my card disadvantage and got beat down.
Takeaways:
- We have SO many dead cards in game 1, and yet it will still competitive. This might have been due to my opponent's lackluster start, but I felt encouraged.
- I brought in NINE cards from the sideboard. Even so, there were cards I wish I had access to: Stony Silence and Path to Exile. Because the matchup is so tough for us, I think we need to seriously consider these. If we're playing Sun Titan, Stony Silence seems good, as we can disinter it with the Titan trigger. It's also an effective card against Affinity. What are people's thoughts on Path?
- I need to improve my game pacing. I think I'm overextending into the graveyard too often because I'm trying to leverage my tempo and card advantages. Relic is especially devastating because they can instantly activate it, as opposed to a card like Deathrite Shaman that needs to untap. I need Horizon Canopy in the main to dredge in response to Relic activations.
- What about one Pithing Needle main? It can name Relic, Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, something dumb that's beating us ... and if we mill it, we can always get it back with Titan.
Round 3: Reanimator mirror, drew 1-1-1 (1-1-1)
- I got paired against my buddy, who normally pilots Jund, but felt saucy last night after testing with me last week. Game 1, I was on the draw. We each Loam-ed for a few turns, and I landed the first Borborygmos. He killed it with (I believe) a Terminate and reanimated his own Borborygmos. I then hard-cast Unburial Rites, targeted Sun Titan, exhumed Liliana of the Veil, and used her "-2". Next attack step, I put Seismic Assault into play and was able to deal lethal.
- Game 2 was a game of chicken for the first six or so turns. He played two early Deathrite Shamans, so I basically went "land-go" and cast a Stinkweed Imp in the first four or five turns. The Imp kept his Raging Ravine at bay. On turn five or six, I cast Assault but had to play Life from the Loam to get enough lands back to deal with both Shamans. He exiled my first Loam - not a big deal, I had another in hand. He then hard-cast Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, and I responded with a reanimated Elesh Norn of my own. He then got Borborygmos into play, which dealt with my 2/5 Elesh Norn with two land chucks. I lost on the next attack step.
- Game 3, we both had to play quickly because of the time left in the round. We each tried to assemble our combo, but he couldn't find Rites. If I got to untap on T6, I had the lethal reanimation ready to rage, but he exiled my graveyard with Rakdos Charm. Included in that dross was my last fetch-able red source. So I had to find one of my other seven red sources to cast Assault, which I eventually did on T5 of turns. I was one land short of inflicting lethal damage.
Takeaways:
- Sun Titan won me a game. I saw what it could do. It's powerful, yes, but I think it's a contingency plan in case we can't get Borborygmos into play. I haven't played many decks packing Path to Exile, though, so perhaps having a reanimation target with an "enters-the-battlefield" trigger that advances our board state is a must. I do think we need three Borborygmos, though, so what do y'all think of five monsters in the deck?
Overall, this was a weird field, but I had a lot of fun. I sleeved up Deathmark because I saw four Pod players before the tournament started. Stinkweed Imp helped the deck a LOT - two copies felt right. I didn't get to cast Drown in Filth, but it woulda' been good in a lot of late game situations.
- Cards I'm considering adding:
2 or 3 Arid Mesa, 1 Horizon Canopy, 1 Flame Jab, 1 Borborygmos Enraged; SB 2 Path to Exile, 1 Stony Silence
I'd have to find the cuts, but that's where my head's at. Thoughts?
Agreed on Terminate. That turned into a second Abrupt Decay. And I think Stinkweed Imp is gonna make a huge difference in my deck. Excited to try it!
I've opted not to include Lingering Souls because I've found them to be clunky. You're not always gonna find Elesh Norn, and Imp does Souls' job of staving off (and even deterring) attacks more efficiently as well as dredges five. But an argument can certainly be made for Souls. And I may try Sun Titan tonight, too. Getting back binned Liliana of the Veil is livin' the dream! And when I get my Arid Mesas, I'm gonna include one or two Flame Jabs. Fetching for a basic Mountain is something I think this deck could use.
I'll let y'all know how my rounds go tonight!
All good observations you made.
- Bojuka Bog is getting cut. I feel fine playing against other graveyard-centric decks like Living End and 4C Gifts, so I don't think I need any hate.
- If I add Horizon Canopy, I'll probably cut Sacred Foundry.
- I wasn't sure about Terminate going into the tournament, but you're probably right - just a worse Lightning Axe. That may turn into a second Abrupt Decay in the main, though (with two still in the side). It was good almost all the time.
- Not sure what to do about Flame Jab. I played one and was rather unimpressed. Could be my matchups, though, replete with Lords and persist creatures and 4-toughness Angels and flash creatures.
- I just never drew Timely Reinforcements, but in testing, every time I cast it, it was awesome (especially if I got Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite into play). I'm gonna keep them in for now so I can try to get them some in-game action. They could possibly be swapped out for an Anger of the Gods (which might be more effective against aggro matchups but less so against Burn) and something else. Not sure yet.
- I'm considering playing one Slaughter Games in the side, but I might be too slow for it. Other options include a third Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek (like you said) or a fourth Raven's Crime. Dreadbore might be interesting, too, but I'd really only need it for Karn Liberated.
- Should I try Ajani Vengeant in the sideboard? The Helix could really help. It can also keep Tarmogoyfs and other mean idiots tapped down. I really struggled against aggressive starts, so it might be good.
As of right now, here's my updated list (with black fetches for now - haven't gotten my Arid Mesas in the mail from Canada yet):
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Raging Ravine
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Graven Cairns
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Borborygmos Enraged
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
Enchantments (2)
2 Seismic Assault
Spells (22)
4 Faithless Looting
3 Raven's Crime
2 Lightning Axe
2 Pyroclasm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Mulch
4 Life from the Loam
4 Unburial Rites
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Terastodon
I'm adding Lavaclaw Reaches instead of Bojuka Bog as another way to win in case all my cards get hated out.
EDIT: Would Damnation be better than Anger of the Gods in the 8-black-fetch build? It's a turn slower, but it kills everything and is more amenable to this manabase.
Whaddaya think?
After talking to some locals, I switched around my sideboard before the tournament. Here's what I ran:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Raging Ravine
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Graven Cairns
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Borborygmos Enraged
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
Enchantments (2)
2 Seismic Assault
Spells (24)
4 Faithless Looting
3 Raven's Crime
1 Flame Jab
2 Lightning Axe
2 Pyroclasm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Terminate
1 Mulch
1 Grisly Salvage
4 Life from the Loam
4 Unburial Rites
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Extirpate
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revelation
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Terastodon
Round 1: 4C Gifts, won 2-0 (1-0)
- Game 1, I mulled to five but was able to just Raven's Crime the crap out of him. Then I landed Liliana of the Veil and took the game easily on the back of big, bad Borborygmos Enraged.
- Game 2, it took me a little longer to get going, and he began to beat me down with Kitchen Finks and Creeping Tar Pit. I landed Seismic Assault and stabilized at 2 life. Then he Surgical Extraction-ed my Life from the Loam, so I had to be selective with my land discard. Eventually I swung with Raging Ravine enough times unmolested and won.
Takeaways:
- Raven's Crime is insane against control/combo.
- Consider adding a Horizon Canopy to the manabase so we can dredge in response to graveyard hate.
Round 2: Kiki-Pod, lost 0-2 (1-1)
- Game 1, I kept a combo-centric hand in the blind and saw T2 Domri Rade net a ton of value. I tried to race - I had the pieces to reanimate on T4 - but he found Glen Elendra Archmage. I tried to Flame Jab to deal with Archmage, but he responded with Restoration Angel. Yup, off to game 2.
- Game 2, I kept a removal-heavy hand and Abrupt Decayed Noble Heirarch. He came with a T3 Domri, which got Decayed, but still drew him a creature. (I believe it was a third Heirarch.) Eventually he wore out my removal, and an exalted Resto beat me down. I couldn't find any of my dredgers that game. Perhaps a hand of three lands, 2 Decays, 1 Terminate and an Unburial Rites isn't a keep(?).
Takeaways:
- I never felt in the game in this matchup. I may have to reevaluate my sideboard.
- Lightning Axe is a swingy card. The good - it puts stuff into the graveyard and can kill things that Lightning Bolt and Decay can't; the bad - it doesn't deal with planeswalkers. Game 1, I had an Axe in my hand, which desperately wanted to deal with Domri. Alas. I don't know what to do with those two slots.
- Decay probably isn't as good as I thought it would be in that matchup. The two Pithing Needles would've been nice to see.
Round 3: Merfolk, lost 1-2 (1-2)
- Game 1, I took a lot of damage from my lands, and he got two Lords out early. I had a T4 reanimation at the ready, but he played Thassa, God of the Sea T3 and Cursecatcher T4. Then I took 13 damage for exactsies. Sad.
- Game 2, Pyroclasm. 'Nuff said. Combo win.
- Game 3 was a loose one for me. He started playing threats, and I killed them. Idiotically, I fetched for a fourth land against Tectonic Edge, realizing what I did as soon as I cracked Marsh Flats. I'll learn. But I reanimated a Borborygmos (which would've been great if it were Iona, Shield of Emeria, but I don't own one yet), which got Vapor Snagged - forgot about that card! He eventually got three Lords out while I started to regroup. I killed Lord of Atlantis, leaving him with two Master of the Pearl Trident. Come onnnnnnn, Maelstrom Pulse! Stupidly, I forgot about the one point from Snag or I missed a fetch crack or something because I thought I was at 5 life and made a play with Flame Jab and an untapped red source that I thought would buy me a turn. (I thought I would've gone to 1 life.) Turns out, I was at 4 life and dead on the next attack. If I had gone with the other line of flashing back Faithless Looting, I would've found Decay and Axe and stabilized. Oops.
Takeaways:
- Count!
- I may want an Anger of the Gods in my sideboard as a third wrath effect in my 75. It kills single-pumped Merfolk and would probably be good against Pod decks, too.
- My mana hurt me in game 1, as I could've reanimated Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or Borborygmos if I had survived that 13-point attack. I may consider a couple Arid Mesas and a basic Mountain (and probably a second Graven Cairns in that case, too). I wanted to fetch for red a fair amount, and being able to save 2 life could be huge. Not sure, though, 'cuz that might make my Crimes worse. What do y'all think?
Round 4: Twin, lost 1-2 (1-3)
- Game 1, I Crime-d my way through three consecutive cantrips and eventually ground out a Borborygmos win.
- Game 2, T1 Relic of Progenitus. I didn't find any of my Decays for it, and I had to play more cautiously than I would've liked. More experience against that card would definitely have helped, as I might not have played optimally. Eventually Grim Lavamancer + Vendilion Clique (whose trigger put a monster on the bottom) beat me down.
- Game 3, T1 Relic again. This time I mulliganed to a (six-card) hand with Decay in it, so I dealt with it. I was beginning to assemble the combo, but he Clique-d away my Life from the Loam. I then drew six lands in seven draw steps (the other card being Unburial Rites) and lost to Batterskull.
Takeaways:
- This matchup felt winnable. I don't think I'd change too much to combat it.
Overall, I had fun playing it, but I think it could use a little more dredge. Dakmor Salvage was awesome all tournament, so that definitely stays in. I don't think Darkblast is where I want to be right now, though. I struggled with big flyers, so how 'bout a couple Stinkweed Imps instead of the Mulch/Grisly Salvage? Dredging five cards would be awesome, and it gives me a formidable, recurring blocker against aggressive decks. Hopefully I play a little tighter next time and draw a little more action.
Feel free to ask questions, provide comments, and excoriate me for playing super terribly against Merfolk!
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Raging Ravine
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Graven Cairns
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Borborygmos Enraged
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
Enchantments (2)
2 Seismic Assault
Spells (24)
4 Faithless Looting
3 Raven's Crime
1 Flame Jab
2 Lightning Axe
2 Pyroclasm
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Terminate
1 Mulch
1 Grisly Salvage
4 Life from the Loam
4 Unburial Rites
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revelation
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Terastodon
I don't own Iona, Shield of Emeria, so I can't play her. I'm thinking of trying out Terastodon for my Tron matchup. I can kill the tokens with one Borborygmos Enraged activation, so it might be good. If I need to, I can blow up three of my lands and just loam them back, too. I'm also gonna see how Terminate instead of a second Abrupt Decay in the main works. Terminate kills Creeping Tar Pit; Celestial Colonnade; Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker; and Griselbrand, and it makes Wurmcoil Engine more manageable. For my heuristic side, I'm running a 1:1 Mulch/Grisly Salvage split in efforts to see the merits of each. My singleton Flame Jab should be pretty good as well, but since I have a lot of that effect in Seismic Assault and Borborygmos, I don't want a ton of copies. Whaddaya think?
Thanks for all your input, mykatdied!
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Raging Ravine
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Graven Cairns
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Borborygmos Enraged
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
Enchantments (2)
2 Seismic Assault
Spells (20)
4 Faithless Looting
3 Raven's Crime
2 Lightning Axe
2 Pyroclasm
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Life from the Loam
4 Unburial Rites
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revelation
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Slaughter Games
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Since Deathrite Shaman ostensibly makes this more of a combo build, prioritizing speed over resiliency, I cut the Flame Jabs. In Shaman-less builds, two would go in. I think all four copies of Unburial Rites and Faithless Looting is correct in a combo strategy, so two Mulches got the axe - not positive if that's right, though. Sun Titan wasn't pulling its weight, so he got the kibosh, too. Occasionally he'd bring back a Liliana of the Veil, but most times I'd rather animate Borborygmos Enraged or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.
My mana base looks VERY painful. I guess it doesn't matter, though, 'cuz I'm trying to kill on T4.
My sideboard needs a LOT of work. I have no idea what's in this metagame, as it's my first time playing at this store. Pithing Needle seems like a good catch-all, turning off hate like Scavenging Ooze and Relic of Progenitus, unfair stuff like Karn Liberated, and manlands like Celestial Colonnade. Timely Reinforcements should be good against Affinity and Burn, and reanimating Elesh Norn after making Soldiers just seems awesome. Should I have access to more than two Abrupt Decays in my 75?
Magic is HARD!
I decided that making Gifts Ungiven work is too cumbersome. Leaving 3U untapped when we could be Loaming/Crime-ing/Looting, etc., smells fishy, and our opponent can prepare for it. The mana base is greedy to begin with, and making U for Gifts and W for Rites proved too tough in testing.
A friend of mine suggested adding a playset of Deathrite Shamans to the Reanimator list as a way to speed up the combo by a turn (as well as T2 Liliana of the Veil or Seismic Assault), serve as another quasi-win condition, and draw removal (notably Path to Exile) to increase the survival rate of our monsters. Eating our own lands in a deck that wants to use Life from the Loam might seem like a non-bo (and Shamans make our Pyroclasms a little worse), but my buddy insists that, in his testing against RG Tron, Merfolk, and Affinity, the Shamans were magnificent. Since my Arid Mesas haven't arrived yet - I have a playset of Marsh Flats - I thought I'd give the Shamans a try at a Modern tournament at my LGS tomorrow.
Ooooooh, Gifts Ungiven! Livin' the dream, all five colors. I like that idea a lot, as I could even get Loam, Crime, etc. I want to be able to maximize my ability to fetch for a blue land, so should I run some number of Scalding Tarns instead of Arid Mesas? In that case, I'd run a Watery Grave so I can get it with Verdant Catacombs or Tarn. A configuration like 4 Catacombs/2 Tarns/2 Mesas(?). I'll have to play around.
Most of the Gifts lists I see run 4 Gifts/1 Rites/2 monsters. If I'm gonna run 2 Gifts (which I think is a good number), can I shave off, say, 1 Unburial Rites and something like 1 Mulch? Where would your cuts be?