I wouldn't sweat it unless something we want with a <> cost is spoiled. For the most part what I imagine will be happening is that things which tap for colorless will be updated to produce <> but costs won't be changing since that would represent a breaking change (e.g. Sol Ring will remain with a CC of 1, but will produce <><>). I think Oath is likely to be the only place (for the foreseeable future) where <> is used as a cost since the "colorlessness" theme is tied to Eldrazi. Maybe we see it again as a cost in supplementary products down the line (Commander, Conspiracy, etc) but that's a ways off.
The whole thing is really just making explicit something that has always been the case. I'd wager they've wanted to for a while and were just waiting for the right block to do it.
3/3 for 3 is way better, no argument there. And you're right I'm probably being too conservative, I just hate giving cards to my opponents. And yea, obviously the thought of sneaking in this sucker definitely made a bit giddy too but I wanted to be sure he stood alone before I let my inner johnny run wild.
I think I'd honestly rather have the 2/2. Why? Recruiter.
Is he really that great? Seems like he needs a lot of help. Best case scenario you've got a haste enabler AND Sage of Fables or Unspeakable Symbol out. More likely though, you've only got one of those things in which case you have to make it around a turn in order to get any value off him and be able to recur. Worst case, you've got none and it takes 2 turns to use him optimally (one turn to attack and get a counter, another turn to activate his ability). Repeatable wheels seems pretty good, but not sure he's really all that. I do want to play it in any deck with Feldon though
Nah not running Zealous, sure it's a nice wombo combo with Kiki-Jiki, but I generally don't use those sorts of wincons.
A quick wincon I've found is to Buried Alive targetting Sage of Hours, Grimgrin and Kiki-Jiki, then putting Necrotic Ooze into play, hopefully with a glen elendra archmage in play to counter any spells, and then go infinite from there.
Huh? This one infinite combo is bad to do but this other one isn't?
I am now running Zealous/Kiki, but that's because my playgroup lately has been playing way too many 6+ player games and when you start at midnight then they end at like 3:00 AM and I want a way to immediately end a game at a reasonable hour. When we fall back out of that habit I'll probably cut the combo again.
Not super exciting, but I did just finally get to play a game and play Drana. T1 swamp, go. T2 mountain, crypt, Falkenrath Aristocrat, bash. T3 rip Drana, fetch into Blood Crypt, Drana. Proceed to wreck face. It was pretty great to be able to swing w/o dethrone and still get counters. And they add up _fast_. If you manage to swing w/ dethrone + Drana then that's 2/turn. Player had to Damnation just to get all the counters off my team (I had Aristocrat up to 6 plus 3-4 on Drana and Marchesa; that's 12-14 points of damage). Didn't matter at all that I was dealing so much damage that I was 20 points ahead in life when Drana still put counters on the team
Avalanche Riders - I think there are slightly mixed feelings here, but many prefer Fulminator Mage because it's easier to cast and you have more control over it. I like Riders because it has haste and can hit basics.
Coffin Queen - interesting, but probably not what you want in this deck. It's usually pretty aggressive, and a creature w/ a tap ability isn't. I've been thinking about a Marchesa "do over" deck and this would be a neat choice, especially if you go heavy on the stealing plan.
Cocopuffs et al - 4 six drops is a bit much. I run Kokusho and am happy with it. The life gain can be important and is of course great w/ a necropotence (or Erebos/Greed). I've never tried the others. They don't really seem better than Coco though. Grave Daddy is probably the next best, especially if you've got a haste enabler on board. Swinging w/ a 7/7, 2 3/3's, and getting a pair of 2/2's out of the deal seems good.
Liliana - can't say I've ever really wanted those abilities. The +2 isn't really an angle the deck tends to attack and realistically you're going to want to be at 4+ loyalty before using the minus. The limit break seems highly unlikely to reach, but is certainly potent.
All that said, I think there are a great many ways to build Marchesa and still have a very fun deck and any of these cards are reasonable inclusions.
Seems okay for a token deck, but at least for me, maintaining dethrone can be a problem and gaining life compounds that. I'd rather have Erebos and then maybe a Greed before this. Card will definitely see EDH play though.
One, maybe two cards from the set. Drana seems like an auto include and I for one will at least be trying Smothering Abomination. Making room though, will take some work.
Thanks, didn't know about those guys. Vulturous Aven does look close, but I'd happily lose flying and a point of toughness to drop the casting cost. Maybe some day.
Am I missing something, or is there no such thing as a Sign in Blood / Night's Whisper / Read the Bones in creature form? If not, WotC needs to get on that. Where is my my Night's Whisper on a 2/2?!
Has Havengul Lich been discussed on this thread before? Its for crazy activated abilities like this that I like the Ooze.
You can use him as another recusion outlet for bouncing stuff in and out of the GY. Just sac n' cast.
Hes not good enough for duals, but I feel like I would run him in multiplayer
I run him in my multiplayer deck. He's perpetually on the chopping block but I never do seem to cut him. The problem is that he costs 5, plus 1 to activate, plus whatever it is you're casting. It's just too much mana to be able to reliably activate the same turn you cast him and that means he's easy pickings before you're able to get any value out of him.
He's certainly fun when he works ("I'm going to cast your It That Betrays."), but if your goal is to have the best Marchesa deck possible, then I doubt he belongs in the list.
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The whole thing is really just making explicit something that has always been the case. I'd wager they've wanted to for a while and were just waiting for the right block to do it.
I think I'd honestly rather have the 2/2. Why? Recruiter.
Huh? This one infinite combo is bad to do but this other one isn't?
I am now running Zealous/Kiki, but that's because my playgroup lately has been playing way too many 6+ player games and when you start at midnight then they end at like 3:00 AM and I want a way to immediately end a game at a reasonable hour. When we fall back out of that habit I'll probably cut the combo again.
Avalanche Riders - I think there are slightly mixed feelings here, but many prefer Fulminator Mage because it's easier to cast and you have more control over it. I like Riders because it has haste and can hit basics.
Coffin Queen - interesting, but probably not what you want in this deck. It's usually pretty aggressive, and a creature w/ a tap ability isn't. I've been thinking about a Marchesa "do over" deck and this would be a neat choice, especially if you go heavy on the stealing plan.
Cocopuffs et al - 4 six drops is a bit much. I run Kokusho and am happy with it. The life gain can be important and is of course great w/ a necropotence (or Erebos/Greed). I've never tried the others. They don't really seem better than Coco though. Grave Daddy is probably the next best, especially if you've got a haste enabler on board. Swinging w/ a 7/7, 2 3/3's, and getting a pair of 2/2's out of the deal seems good.
Liliana - can't say I've ever really wanted those abilities. The +2 isn't really an angle the deck tends to attack and realistically you're going to want to be at 4+ loyalty before using the minus. The limit break seems highly unlikely to reach, but is certainly potent.
All that said, I think there are a great many ways to build Marchesa and still have a very fun deck and any of these cards are reasonable inclusions.
One, maybe two cards from the set. Drana seems like an auto include and I for one will at least be trying Smothering Abomination. Making room though, will take some work.
This is the best part. Marchesa is still active even if dethrone is off or undesirable.
I run him in my multiplayer deck. He's perpetually on the chopping block but I never do seem to cut him. The problem is that he costs 5, plus 1 to activate, plus whatever it is you're casting. It's just too much mana to be able to reliably activate the same turn you cast him and that means he's easy pickings before you're able to get any value out of him.
He's certainly fun when he works ("I'm going to cast your It That Betrays."), but if your goal is to have the best Marchesa deck possible, then I doubt he belongs in the list.