Is the matchup basically unwinnable without surgical? I ask because I’ve been trying to make do with spellbombs, damping sphere, and Cage (extraction’s price tag is ridiculous nowadays), but I can’t tell if the artifacts are subpar or I’ve simply been getting unlucky.
I took a few months hiatus from magic so my knowledge of the Phoenix matchup is basically null.
Well, Extirpate is an option. It might even be better against UR Phoenix, but don't take my word for it, I don't really know what they run.
Anyone have an idea of sb card which is good against dredge but still doing anything else against other deck ?
Have you tried Wheel of sun and moon?
It costs as much as Rakdos Charm and some decks have problems to remove it.
Though it only has one mode it hits quite a few of decks. Phoenix, Dredge, Scales, Pyromancer, Shadow, Living End, Mill, Storm, Control,..are the first decks i can think of.
With Vizier Company, it takes away their ability to gain infinite life through Kitchen Finks, but it doesn't stop Walking Ballista, sadly.
It takes a bunch of G sources to play it reliably on turn-two. It might be too late after that. Rock decks don't always run enough with their play sets of Field of Ruin.
Someone will chime in with the exact number. At least they did the last time I brought up Wheel. Abzan decks typically have a better mana-base for Wheel alhough it certainly doesn't have to be so.
Who dies first? Can the Rock player tell the Ad Nauseam player exactly what he can do with all of those useless copies of Pact of Negation he's holding?
Why not? Is the standard Rock build suited for it? Swap a few cards for the new ones? I think I'd build a substantially different deck for it. Something heavy on B for creatures that don't mind dying - to complement Bitterblosson - with a little G for Vraska and Decay, Trophy and possibly Pulse.
Also total noob question, what's people's advice for taking on big mana decks? I've read the primer sections on Tron but I'd like some personal experiences too. There are two or three regular Tron players and two Amulet Titan players at my LGS. I love the Rock but it's a significantly worse matchup than when I was playing Ponza or Red Prison.
Tron decks are horrible match-ups. They are the reason I play Ghost Quarter instead of Field of Ruin but there probably isn't any way of making the match-up favorable.
In addition to the Ghost Quarters, one has Assassin's Trophy and Fulminator Mage in the side-board. Surgical Extraction can keep them off of Tron permanently, which will give you a few more turns to beat them.
If you really want to compete with Tron, main-deck Ghost Quarter, at least three Trophies, side-board at least three Fulminators and three Surgical.
I honestly netdecked so I'm not sure what Ishkanah is for, but I did try to use her during my Mill matchup today to burn through an Ensnaring Bridge, not a fan tho.
Ishkanah, Grafwidow is there to provide multiple blockers with Reach. She can also provide some "reach" herself when you get that boatload of mana that her activated ability requires.
Finally managed to grab all the cards through trading and vendors at GP LA! Highlights included a Spanish Bob going for $35, and 2 Chinese Liliana, the Last Hope, for $10 off market price.
I managed to get full playsets of Verdant Catacombs, Liliana of the Veil, and Bob, only having to spend $50 actual cash and emptying my trade binder for the rest. I can finally play the deck I've fantasized about ever since it thrashed me during one of my first Modern events.
My list is below, any general tips/advice for a new Rock player?
A main-deck Spellbomb makes more sense to me that a single Bauble. I also would prefer Languish to Expertise. The extra point may save your bacon. You'll often be Hellbent by the time you have four mana anyway.
A quite solid list though perhaps others will have nitpicks as well.
I was thinking of trying 4 Gonti, Lord of Luxury in that spot.
Which wouldn't make much sense if that spots critical for the life gain and graveyard disruption all in one.
All the same though stealing opponents resources can be useful.
I'm skeptical any four-drop is relevant against Burn or Dredge.
One of Hardened Scales main win-cons is Infect via Inkmoth Nexus so anything that destroys a land is good. Another major win-con is Walking Ballista and the third is Hangarback Walker. Engineered Explosives is perfect for these last two. Artifact hate is of course good for all three as long as it is Instant-speed.
The lynch pin of all three of these win cons is the synergy between Arcbound Ravager and Hardened Scales. Anyway of shutting down the modular effect is good. With these two cards and any one of their three win-cons just mentioned, they can assemble lethal damage or Infect stupidly quickly.
Steel Overseer is a much slower way of getting the counters where they need to be but with Scales they can add up faster. Anything that can kill an artifact is good.
I would say Damnation is a better card here than Languish as it's not too tough for them to bulk up a Ravager to 5+; it's comically easy if Hardened Scales is in play. Alternatively they can move the counters to a Walker or a Ballista. Yes Languish might make them very vulnerable to a single targeted removal spell, but if you tap out to cast Languish or are Hellbent, they might just kill you next turn. Either card can leave an number of Hangerback flyers in it's aftermath.
If this is too basic I apologize. But maybe it will help someone.
If you expect a bunch of burn in your meta how do you adapt?
If I swap Bob's out for coursers/finks does it ruin what this deck is trying to do? I'm playing the basic version of the deck.
Thanks!
If one is going to dump [card-Dark Confidant]Bob[/card], I think one would have to substitute Grim Flayer. Tireless Tracker fans have a build with four of them but I wouldn't touch that your hands.
Courser of Kruphix or Kitchen Finks also balloon the curve so I wouldn't be interested in that either. A few three- and four-drops are all I'm going to run. One has to makes his money with the one- and two-drops or the archetype falls apart.
Feel free to dismiss these as incompetent ramblings. I won't be offended.
As a side-board card it isn't an issue, but main-deck Bitterblossoms can be a liability. One of the fastest games I've ever won was against Faerie Tribal. I discarded his BB then he discarded my Liliana of the Veil. My turn-two Tarmogoyf was HUGE! The last game he played BB on turn-two and I played Last Hope turn-three. Even I felt bad for the guy. Well, only a little.
Any thoughts or comments on Shadow of Doubt? I've seen it in older lists but no mention here at all.
In a fetch-heavy meta it seems like it could pull weight. It also shuts off Gifts Ungiven, Chord of Calling and Scapeshift.
It's probably a better card in control decks - decks that hold up mana normally. It could still pull some weight here in the mid-to-late game.
I remember sometimes having one copy in my Grixis Delver sideboard. I don't remember ever using it.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
It takes a bunch of G sources to play it reliably on turn-two. It might be too late after that. Rock decks don't always run enough with their play sets of Field of Ruin.
Someone will chime in with the exact number. At least they did the last time I brought up Wheel. Abzan decks typically have a better mana-base for Wheel alhough it certainly doesn't have to be so.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Someone explain the following to me:
Ad Nauseam has resolved with Phyrexian Unlife in play. The Ad Nauseum player then puts all of his cards in his hand. Then he casts Lightning Storm to which the Rock player responds by destroying Phyrexian Unlife with Abrupt Decay.
Who dies first? Can the Rock player tell the Ad Nauseam player exactly what he can do with all of those useless copies of Pact of Negation he's holding?
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I think it's a turn too slow to be the central focus of a Modern deck but it might fly in the right build.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
In addition to the Ghost Quarters, one has Assassin's Trophy and Fulminator Mage in the side-board. Surgical Extraction can keep them off of Tron permanently, which will give you a few more turns to beat them.
If you really want to compete with Tron, main-deck Ghost Quarter, at least three Trophies, side-board at least three Fulminators and three Surgical.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
A main-deck Spellbomb makes more sense to me that a single Bauble. I also would prefer Languish to Expertise. The extra point may save your bacon. You'll often be Hellbent by the time you have four mana anyway.
A quite solid list though perhaps others will have nitpicks as well.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
The lynch pin of all three of these win cons is the synergy between Arcbound Ravager and Hardened Scales. Anyway of shutting down the modular effect is good. With these two cards and any one of their three win-cons just mentioned, they can assemble lethal damage or Infect stupidly quickly.
Steel Overseer is a much slower way of getting the counters where they need to be but with Scales they can add up faster. Anything that can kill an artifact is good.
I would say Damnation is a better card here than Languish as it's not too tough for them to bulk up a Ravager to 5+; it's comically easy if Hardened Scales is in play. Alternatively they can move the counters to a Walker or a Ballista. Yes Languish might make them very vulnerable to a single targeted removal spell, but if you tap out to cast Languish or are Hellbent, they might just kill you next turn. Either card can leave an number of Hangerback flyers in it's aftermath.
If this is too basic I apologize. But maybe it will help someone.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Courser of Kruphix or Kitchen Finks also balloon the curve so I wouldn't be interested in that either. A few three- and four-drops are all I'm going to run. One has to makes his money with the one- and two-drops or the archetype falls apart.
Feel free to dismiss these as incompetent ramblings. I won't be offended.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
As a side-board card it isn't an issue, but main-deck Bitterblossoms can be a liability. One of the fastest games I've ever won was against Faerie Tribal. I discarded his BB then he discarded my Liliana of the Veil. My turn-two Tarmogoyf was HUGE! The last game he played BB on turn-two and I played Last Hope turn-three. Even I felt bad for the guy. Well, only a little.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
It's probably a better card in control decks - decks that hold up mana normally. It could still pull some weight here in the mid-to-late game.
I remember sometimes having one copy in my Grixis Delver sideboard. I don't remember ever using it.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn