Yeah, I have never had an issue with graveyard hate. Annoying, yes; but far from an auto loss. I've played and won games while having Loam and Assault Extracted from my deck. If your deck doesn't have a solid plan B, then it can't really be competitive in my opinion.
@ mykatdied: Your MODO username is Jaberwocki, right? I'm seeing that name come up on Modern Primer events. 1st in one and 7th in the most recent. It looks like your creatureless Smallpox list. And if so, congrats on the 3rd/4th place finish in the PTW in March.
A couple of days ago this list took 7th in a Daily event. I'm unfamiliar with the size of those events but I think it's still note worthy (mainly because it's a RUG list and that makes me happy :D).
EDIT: So after doing some more looking into the event, he was one of 7 people that went 4-0. The 7th place is based on tie-breakers I'm assuming.
Seems interesting. I've tried Delver in Modern without much success and I'm not sure this deck really benefits a ton from him but I could easily be wrong. Young Pyromancer is interesting and I see the potential with Flame Jab and him. I wouldn't mind seeing the deck played though. Haha.
Unfortunately those are the only placing decks I found through my brief search. I looked through Starcitygames' deck database as well as mtgtop8.com and didn't come up with much. Which I guess is understandable. Are there any other decent sites that I don't know about for finding tournament info?
Haha I am not him, I totally stole his list. I posted that a few pages ago. I completely admit it is not my work, but I also completely admit that his list is awesome.
I am up to 3 decay in the board, dropped leylines for 2 extirpate and 1 syphon life in the board. This gives me a great match up against burn and RiP post board. I actually sadly don't play on MTGO or anything, I would love to I just can't bring myself to buying the cards which I already own. I am close to it though because modern at my local store isn't a sure fire thing. Sad but true.
Currently I am testing rites of flourishing main board over the desperate ritual. It is insane against creature decks but has proven horrible against control so those are gonna go away and I may actually try playing bob in the main board for card advantage and a way to actually draw some cards. My issue is the deck eats soo much life between shock and fetch. I actually have a lot of blood moon in my meta so I have put a basic forest and a basic swamp in my list. Naturally with a moon out a mountain isn't necessary. I just tested in against legacy imperial painter the other day and it faired well in that match up. Blood moon slowed me down a lot though. Thankfully I had a liliana out first. I won
That RUG list is pretty nasty. I would absolutely test young pyromancer. Sooo much advantage with pyromancer playing under flame jab and loam. I may try testing him out. Between raven's crime, flame jab and everything else I think that may be the right call for my (stolen) list.
Rather unfortunate that we got demoted out of the Established section without warning... I'll have to look around for any lists that are having success in Modern tournaments. I've been considering getting into Magic Online so I can play more events with this deck and maybe garner some more respect for it but that is a lot of money for a deck I already have. Plus getting Goyfs and fetches again will suck. Though the rest of the deck isn't actually all that expensive outside of that.
Agreed. It really is a shame. The deck is solid but I think with all the deathrite and RiP running around people are too afraid to run it. I still have yet to completely lose to either of those cards but whatevs. It is just sad to see such a fun deck fall so far.
Active player's triggers go on the stack, then non-active player's triggers go on the stack. So as long as they are casting on their turn (which I'd assume they would with Scapeshift being a sorcery) your triggers resolve first. It is the same thing that happened when two players had Mimic Vat in play. Whoever's turn it wasn't got to imprint a dead creature.
And I completely forgot about Dryad Militant shutting off Life from the Loam. Just a quick afterthought I pulled from a hatebear idea. I've never been a huge fan of Countryside Crusher. He's good if you're ahead but getting him going is a bit of a pain. Especially if you are behind.
I am just familiar in legacy I played a lot of stax and the abyss in pox, usually the active players gets their triggers, once the triggers resolve the non active player gets all their triggers. But these are upkeep effects so it might just be different that way. I also could be crazy. It has been a while since I picked up geddon stax. Militant is a great card and I almost jumped all over you saying that then I remembered it's ability was symmetrical.
Dryad militant would shut you down. I think knight would probably be the best bet for a naya version of assault. Naturally he is one of the most synergistic creatures to play in aggro loam. Countryside crusher isn't bad either obviously.
Tunnel ingus is neat but I believe your opponent gets his triggers to happen first so you would still die before tunnel ignus kills them. I would check with a judge but usually active player, non-active player would mean you still die first.
Small Modern Tournament 12 People. 2-1
Round 1 Elves 1-2, couldn't get loam online game 2 and 3. Too many lords and war-callers, not enough lands to pitch. That was my first loss to elves. He cut my deck game 3 by putting the top 7 on the bottom. The 7 were, Cairns, blood crypt, copperline gorge, seismic assault, Life from the loam, Liliana of the veil, smallpox. Would've trashed him with that. The hand I ended up drawing had no loam but did have lightning bolt, assault, liliana, looting, misty and blood crypt. This would've been fine if I just drew a loam within the first 7 turns as I kept drawing land to pitch to the assault to somewhat control his board.
Round 2 Burn 2-0, raven's crime and assault get there... he played 3 ball lightning. Trading post got there game 2.
Round 3 Burn 2-0, same thing as game 1 of previous round. Game 2 syphon life pulled me out of my hole and assault finished my opponent off.
3rd place. Burn is usually rough and I have seen much better burn decks, but I will take the store credit it got.
I have personally found affinity very favorable. Flame jab which I run is very useful and etched champion is only as good as the artifacts you leave around and the smallpox you are about to cast. I am curious if spellskite would improve some of these match ups. I have found it to be exceptionally useful against infect. Aside from the bloodrush effect of slaughterhorn, spellskite eats up their pump spells. Honestly with all the removal we have I would be hard pressed to believe infect can be that effective. I am gonna pick up the haakon and nameless to test it a bit and see how much I like it. I think spellskite is a card I need in my board and that may be the missing piece I needed. I play blue sources so I won't have to entirely take damage from activations. I will keep people updated as I play the deck and find it's strengths and weaknesses.
Hey, So this is my first time posting in this thread but I've been playing this deck pretty extensively in Modern. However...
As a poster above noted, Assault is best used to control the board. That said, it very definitely has game-winning applications and it's a mistake to forget that. With this in mind, I built my Loam deck in a much more controlling manner- I'm looking to play as a true attrition deck. Aggro, while very powerful with this shell, is way too reliant on tempo and pushing the advantage to survive through graveyard hate, which is the major hurtle to making this deck both tier one and playable through a full day of magic at a GP (etc). As a more controlling deck, however, we can deal with this - our game plan is to stabilize and take over the game; the tempo is much less important. To that end, I think that beaters like Goyf and Countryside Crusher, while undeniably incredibly powerful (especially in this shell), are going contrary to our deck's main mode of operation.
I can elaborate on all my choices if you guys would like. I also thought that maybe I should put this in a different thread since, while we run essentially the same shell, the deck plays very differently....
I like the list I found previously but I love your list. If I were to test anything different I would absolutely test with haakon and inverson. That seems awesome and I am entirely impressed at the synergy of those 2. I would have never ever thought of that myself. Did you see that by someone else or did it happen to dawn on you?
I think attacking with creatures (whatever they might be) and man-lands has always been a big part of winning with this deck. Look back at Bronson Magnan's finals match and you will find he won one game mostly through attacking with two Bobs and a Goyf, while controlling the board with the Assault/Loam combo, and the other game through an attacking Lavaclaw Reaches. I've usually found this to be the case in my own games as well; the combo is more about controlling the board than shooting them in the face most of the time imo.
As to which creatures, obviously Goyf is amazing, but it is also very expensive. Countryside Crusher, Kitchen Finks, Bob, Young Pyromancer (many here seem to be having positive results with him), Demigod of Revenge (something I've tried and liked, especially in conjunction with Eternal Witness), and others have all been used successfully in the past.
In regard to man-lands, I like Treetop Village best because of the low mana required to activate it, but Raging Ravine and Lavaclaw Reaches both have some big upsides as well. Personally, I'd avoid Mutavault if you are running other colorless lands like Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge, as too many of these don't play well with Seismic Assault. I do feel some number of LD lands need too be included for the Tron and Valakut MUs as well as to fight enemy man-lands.
That is definitely the correct action when playing this deck. Assault is most certainly there for board control, maybe a few extra points of damage to close out a game. Man lands become necessary when you have a clear board to get some solid damage through.
Smallpox has been awesome turn 2/3 playing it is great against most decks it even more awesome when you have young pyromancer out to trigger the token and sac it!!! And all the tokens that are made from young pyromancer can slow down the agro decks
I've had great success with smallpox as well. Loam really breaks the symmetry of it as well. Young pyromancer seems like a good add just not sure I would run it. There are usually other things I feel I'd rather cast at 2 mana, but still seems solid add since it triggers on casting and not resolution
@ Jin-E Udo: I thought the deck needed a bit more on the aggressive front after several games ending with me being a handful of points short of finishing off an opponent. Goblin Guide fills that role perfectly by getting me those handful of points closer and lets me win off of 2 Loams rather than 3 or 4.
I tested Trade Routes and while it had some nifty interactions, it wouldn't help me pull back into a game. If I was already ahead and landed it, it allowed me to solidify my lead but if I was tied or behind the opponent, picking up lands in a deck that operates off of 3 or 4 was really bad for getting back into a game. Compulsive Research has the same issue as Looting in my deck. Sorcery speed is detrimental to the mind game aspect of the deck. I like to do things at the end of my opponent's turn. Thirst for Knowledge probably wouldn't be terrible, but I'd need to test it out and discarding two cards might be too difficult on the deck. Could be interesting.
Gifts is a great card but I feel like I'd need to make a toolbox style deck to really cash in on it and then it starts detracting from the consistency of the deck. Plus, 4 mana is a lot. I can give it a shot but I don't own Gifts currently.
@ mykatdied: 28 lands hasn't been too many for you? I've played around with those numbers from 27 down to 23. I found myself staring at handfuls of land with no action above 25 and anything below, I was struggling to dig for enough of them. I guess I can see extras as fuel for Raven's Crime and Flame Jab but I found Flame Jab lackluster outside of the Affinity match up.
I hate to criticize without having played the deck. It does look like it has a ton of synergies. I guess I just haven't played many discard based decks, which is what yours appears to be underneath the Assault-Loam strategy. Where as I have the more control oriented strategy. I've tested Small Pox a couple times in other decks and it never really performed to the level I expected it to. I found it fits awkwardly into the curve and gets worse later in the game. I can be brutal on turn 2 and is decent on turn 3 but after that, I didn't find the power to be there or it hurt me significantly as well.
As far as sideboard suggestions, I like going up in the count of Ghost Quarters in the Tron match up. It really hurts them. There's also Crucible of Worlds as a possible value card in grindy match ups. So you can play lands without needing to use up Loam slots on them. You may want to consider Dismember for the Kiki Jiki/Twin match up. I've also been a big fan of Engineered Explosives as a good catch all card for the random stuff you may run into in the early rounds of any tournament.
When you have to draw because of yard hate the more lands the better and I think that's part of the reaction to yard hate was the extra lands
Could you post your list? I can see why most cut Countryside Crusher, but can't imagine the deck without using some combination of Goyf, Bob, Finks, Eternal Witness, or something else. Do you side in creatures at all as alternate wincons or as blockers/lifegain?
Oh, and to the Young Pyromancer suggestion, you'd be leaning pretty heavily on Looting and Loam to power him, but they each give multiple uses so it might work. Test him, and let us know what you think.
I want to build a deck similiar to this, but i can't get a playset of Tarmogoyf for budget reason. I was wondering if young pyromancer is a good replacement since i will cast lots of spell?
I play a creature-less version that does an amazing job at winning. I don't see the need for either.
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Haha I am not him, I totally stole his list. I posted that a few pages ago. I completely admit it is not my work, but I also completely admit that his list is awesome.
I am up to 3 decay in the board, dropped leylines for 2 extirpate and 1 syphon life in the board. This gives me a great match up against burn and RiP post board. I actually sadly don't play on MTGO or anything, I would love to I just can't bring myself to buying the cards which I already own. I am close to it though because modern at my local store isn't a sure fire thing. Sad but true.
Currently I am testing rites of flourishing main board over the desperate ritual. It is insane against creature decks but has proven horrible against control so those are gonna go away and I may actually try playing bob in the main board for card advantage and a way to actually draw some cards. My issue is the deck eats soo much life between shock and fetch. I actually have a lot of blood moon in my meta so I have put a basic forest and a basic swamp in my list. Naturally with a moon out a mountain isn't necessary. I just tested in against legacy imperial painter the other day and it faired well in that match up. Blood moon slowed me down a lot though. Thankfully I had a liliana out first. I won
That RUG list is pretty nasty. I would absolutely test young pyromancer. Sooo much advantage with pyromancer playing under flame jab and loam. I may try testing him out. Between raven's crime, flame jab and everything else I think that may be the right call for my (stolen) list.
Agreed. It really is a shame. The deck is solid but I think with all the deathrite and RiP running around people are too afraid to run it. I still have yet to completely lose to either of those cards but whatevs. It is just sad to see such a fun deck fall so far.
I am just familiar in legacy I played a lot of stax and the abyss in pox, usually the active players gets their triggers, once the triggers resolve the non active player gets all their triggers. But these are upkeep effects so it might just be different that way. I also could be crazy. It has been a while since I picked up geddon stax. Militant is a great card and I almost jumped all over you saying that then I remembered it's ability was symmetrical.
Dryad militant would shut you down. I think knight would probably be the best bet for a naya version of assault. Naturally he is one of the most synergistic creatures to play in aggro loam. Countryside crusher isn't bad either obviously.
Tunnel ingus is neat but I believe your opponent gets his triggers to happen first so you would still die before tunnel ignus kills them. I would check with a judge but usually active player, non-active player would mean you still die first.
Round 1 Elves 1-2, couldn't get loam online game 2 and 3. Too many lords and war-callers, not enough lands to pitch. That was my first loss to elves. He cut my deck game 3 by putting the top 7 on the bottom. The 7 were, Cairns, blood crypt, copperline gorge, seismic assault, Life from the loam, Liliana of the veil, smallpox. Would've trashed him with that. The hand I ended up drawing had no loam but did have lightning bolt, assault, liliana, looting, misty and blood crypt. This would've been fine if I just drew a loam within the first 7 turns as I kept drawing land to pitch to the assault to somewhat control his board.
Round 2 Burn 2-0, raven's crime and assault get there... he played 3 ball lightning. Trading post got there game 2.
Round 3 Burn 2-0, same thing as game 1 of previous round. Game 2 syphon life pulled me out of my hole and assault finished my opponent off.
3rd place. Burn is usually rough and I have seen much better burn decks, but I will take the store credit it got.
I like the list I found previously but I love your list. If I were to test anything different I would absolutely test with haakon and inverson. That seems awesome and I am entirely impressed at the synergy of those 2. I would have never ever thought of that myself. Did you see that by someone else or did it happen to dawn on you?
That is definitely the correct action when playing this deck. Assault is most certainly there for board control, maybe a few extra points of damage to close out a game. Man lands become necessary when you have a clear board to get some solid damage through.
Probably man lands because they give us a win con that can be used despite a RiP or leyline.
I've had great success with smallpox as well. Loam really breaks the symmetry of it as well. Young pyromancer seems like a good add just not sure I would run it. There are usually other things I feel I'd rather cast at 2 mana, but still seems solid add since it triggers on casting and not resolution
When you have to draw because of yard hate the more lands the better and I think that's part of the reaction to yard hate was the extra lands
Lands 28
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Graven Cairns
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Raging Ravine
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
3 Desperate Ravings
4 Faithless Looting
2 Flame Jab
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Life from the Loam
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Pyroclasm
3 Raven's Crime
3 Seismic Assault
4 Smallpox
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Defense Grid
1 Flame Jab
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Syphon Life
2 Thoughtseize
1 Trading Post
The deck is insane, the sideboard needs work. The original list had 4 leyline of the void which I really didn't like. Still trying to work it.
For reference, the original list
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=4897&d=228302
I play a creature-less version that does an amazing job at winning. I don't see the need for either.