That deck seems solid. I like 3 colored decks and I already made some good experiences with them. Heirs of Stromkirk, Archaeomancer and Penumbra Spider seem a little bit risky. I always try not to play double mana costs in 3 colored decks, even if the fixing is solid. The Spider is maybe worth the risk, but I wouldn't play the other ones.
How is Rush of Knowledge working over all? With any cc4 permanent it's already better than most of the other common card draw spells.
I didn't list the basic land counts, but the mana was biased towards Green and Red first, so the Spider and the Heirs were not too difficult to cast. Getting Archeaomancer mana was sometimes a struggle, but that card is meant to be cast later in the game anyway, after having already cast some sweet spells to return, so double Blue usually comes around by then.
Rush of Knowledge has been a fantastic inclusion in my cube. Most ramp and control decks spend the early game dealing with threats one-for-one, so Rush lets them rebuild once they're at the point of stabilizing. Both types of decks tend to have defensive creatures around 3-4 mana, so it's at worst a draw 3 for 5, which is about on par with other Common raw card draw spells. It's very easy to draw more than that, including the full 8 with Ulamog's Crusher happening a not insignificant number of times.
It's not just the thing to have 4 in the cube, you also need 3-4 in your deck, otherweise this cards are useless.
That's why he's suggesting one copy in the actual cube to draft with, but whoever drafts the card gets up to 4 copies to put into the deck.
I've thought about including Aurochs Herd in response to the recent discussion about deemphasizing ramp in green. I've tried different large creatures in Green, but Aurochs Herd would give those sorts of decks a chance to compete with controlling decks heavy on removal, while also being a cheaper, and thereby more relevant, finisher against midrange and aggro decks. The Green decks people have been drafting tend to run out of steam if their large creature gets dealt with, so a continuous stream of threats would help them greatly.
As for Squadron Hawks, I personally wouldn't try it with my cube because White has been overperforming in my playgroup for going on two years now, so I'm not in the market for quality White cards at the moment.
I'm liking War Falcon. As soon as I saw it, I checked my current White creatures and found that most of them were already Soldiers or Knights, so there's a pretty good chance for the Falcon to get to attack.
Ghostly Flicker2U
Instant (C)
Exile two target artifacts, creatures, and/or lands you control, then return those cards to the battlefield under your control.
I like this twist on the flicker effect, as well as the versatility. It's got the usual save a creature/reuse ETB triggers, but also do that and reset Serrated Arrows/Tumble Magnet, get landfall triggers instant-speed and other uses I probably haven't thought of yet.
I'm looking forward to trying it, but not looking forward to finding a spell to cut in order to do so.
@Ruin8or:
Thanks for the feedback. You pointed out many of those cards listed as bad, which I can agree with in most cases. Some of the cards I have in the cube are not as overtly powerful as most of the cards people choose here. Sometimes that's due to player preferences, sometimes it's due to only drafting with a 2-4 people and getting poorly balanced decks with cards the other players can't stop. I moved away from power in some changes, but I've been moving back in that direction lately, so pointing out the cards that seem bad helps.
I was actually setting aside Infantry Veteran when I was looking at Mosquito Guard in my list, so that would likely make it in. I'm still waiting on my M12 cards to arrive though, so Gideon's Lawkeeper will probably take the spot eventually.
Null Champion has been decent in 2 player drafts, which are slower and don't have the high concentration of removal. That's probably skewed my considerations.
I'll try Brainstormagain. People were very excited to play with it when looking through the cards initially, but I watched lots of games with it and not much was gained by playing it in most decks. It felt weird to cut, but I think it was right at the time. Now it might work better.
Bloodfire Dwarf will likely be the Red 1 drop of choice. I already added Bloodfire Infusion (which I didn't know existed until I stumbled upon it a couple months ago) as a way to give Red more sweepers, so the Dwarf is a nice fit.
As for Lumithread Field, I think it's ideal environment would have been triple Onslaught draft. I haven't played it so this may be off, but that environment just seemed like Morhps everywhere, so giving yours an extra toughness would be quite relevant. If there were a cube with that much Morph density, the field might have its day in the sun.
I'll probably go with many of the changes you suggested, though that may wait until I get M12 and NPH cards I ordered in the mail as those will shake things up anyway.
@CrusherX
I've mostly played with newer players (i.e., people I taught how to play the game so we could draft), so blocking happened more often. You and I know it's not the best way to play, but that and other new player mentalities emerged a lot with my friends. That sort of play made inclusions like Lumithread Field and cuts like Crypt Rats, Blastoderm, Shadow creatures, etc. make a strange sort of sense. It's not the most effective draft or play style, so that's why cards most people auto-include were thought to be too overpowered. I do want to move back toward more powerful cards in my cube, so I will probably make some large-scale changes soon. I'll make a post here when I do make changes to get some more input.
@mslano: Great list! Below are cards I'd reconsider cutting, which I personally wouldn't use (although perhaps they're more fun/better for your group :))
I notice you're missing Drifter il-Dal, which seems to suit your aggro blue too. Perhaps that's worth including?
Thanks for looking through the list. It's taken a lot of refinement to get to its current form, so I'm glad it looks good to someone else and not just me.
Looking at the particular cards you mentioned:
Mosquito Guard This card's been in the cube for a while, after I fell in love with Burrenton Bombardier. Granted, Reinforce 1 is a lot weaker than Reinforce 3, I still like this guy as a 1 drop that's good early and still relevant late. That sort of card assessment guides many of my card choices. If the cube had a name it'd be Having My Cake and Eating It Too.
Flickering Spirit I only recently added this and haven't a chance to try it yet. I haven't played with it in any draft format, so I don't know how good it is. This spot might be better suited to something like Apex Hawks.
Lumithread Field I think I may have added this mostly because it tickled my fancy, though I've seen it do good work in Pauper constructed. That said, it might be too cute as the enchantment side just seems like marginal value, so this is mostly just a Grey Ogre.
Eel Umbra I never expected so much discussion to emerge from this card. I like it quite a bit, both as a counter to a removal spell and as a way to both increase the clock on an evasive creature while affording it protection down the line. I'll admit to never having tried Counfound. That card may come in at some point, but for now, Eel Umbra has suited me well.
See Beyond This is the card I used to replace Brainstorm, which I didn't like with so few shuffle effects in most decks. Serum Visions might be better for doing the a similar effect, but in looking through my cards, I feel like trying Sift or some other raw card advantage spell since that sort of effect is largely missing from the cube.
Null Champion This card is the lone holdout of the nonwhite Levelers. He replaced Dimir House Guard in the first set of changes I made and I've been happy with him as a midrange to late game creature. Whereas the other Levelers made it into the cube because of my affection for Rise of the Eldrazi drafts, this guy's actually earned his keep.
Looming Shade As strange as it may seem, this card was a replacement for Crypt Rats, which my friends had found very irritating to play with. I wanted to keep a creature that rewarded heavy black and I like a Shade for that sort of role. One of the flying Shades may be better here, or maybe just Wicked Akuba should return.
Wail of the Nim I used this card to replace Haunting Misery when I last made changes, but I'm not sure why. I may reverse that both because Haunting Misery is more interesting and I want to keep "damage to all creatures" effects in Red to give it more of an identity than just attacking and burning faces.
Akki Avalanchers This card struck me as interesting, which might not be suitable reason to keep it. I wanted a 1 drop that could stay relevant later in the game and this can trade with creatures for a while if it comes to that. Looking at other possible Red 1 drops, I'm intrigued by Bloodfire Dwarf, Flailing Soldier, Goblin Cohort, Goblin Grappler, and Jackal Familiar. Anyone familiar with those cards can chime in.
Vigean Hydropon Perhaps this is just one of my pet cards, but I like the effect this thing has. I wish there were better Graft creatures at common (I'd love a Plaxcaster Frogling here). This is a terrible topdeck, however, so I may change it to Shielding Plax, which people initially complained about, but may be more willing to accept now.
I would certainly like Drifter il-Dal in my cube; he's one of my favorite Blue creatures ever. Unfortunately for him, I went through and purged all the Shadow creatures early in the process due to complaints that they made games non-interactive too often. If I get people interested in trying the Cube again (or find other people who would be interested), I'd probably push for their inclusion back in the cube, starting with this guy and Looter il-Kor
For a while, we would have the occasional 6-8 person draft, but mostly 2 player drafts or sealed. As such, some of the card choices were dictated by preference for pet cards or extreme distaste for certain annoying cards (Hymn to Tourach, Sprout Swarm, Blastoderm, Guardian of the Guildpact, Shadow creatures). Largely, my aim for the cube has been versatility of cards, so I err on the side of more artifacts, hybrid cards and Phyrexian mana cards (when I get them).
Anyway, it's been a while since we've drafted the cube, so I wanted to get some input on the cube overall. I'm open to suggestions for changes or just discussion in general about cube drafting.
1. I have a lot of cards dealing with +1/+1 counters, so I need more creatures that get these without much cost.
2. I really, really, really love that they do the exact full 20 on their own.
I didn't list the basic land counts, but the mana was biased towards Green and Red first, so the Spider and the Heirs were not too difficult to cast. Getting Archeaomancer mana was sometimes a struggle, but that card is meant to be cast later in the game anyway, after having already cast some sweet spells to return, so double Blue usually comes around by then.
Rush of Knowledge has been a fantastic inclusion in my cube. Most ramp and control decks spend the early game dealing with threats one-for-one, so Rush lets them rebuild once they're at the point of stabilizing. Both types of decks tend to have defensive creatures around 3-4 mana, so it's at worst a draw 3 for 5, which is about on par with other Common raw card draw spells. It's very easy to draw more than that, including the full 8 with Ulamog's Crusher happening a not insignificant number of times.
I'm still adding it, but I'm kinda bummed.
That's why he's suggesting one copy in the actual cube to draft with, but whoever drafts the card gets up to 4 copies to put into the deck.
I've thought about including Aurochs Herd in response to the recent discussion about deemphasizing ramp in green. I've tried different large creatures in Green, but Aurochs Herd would give those sorts of decks a chance to compete with controlling decks heavy on removal, while also being a cheaper, and thereby more relevant, finisher against midrange and aggro decks. The Green decks people have been drafting tend to run out of steam if their large creature gets dealt with, so a continuous stream of threats would help them greatly.
As for Squadron Hawks, I personally wouldn't try it with my cube because White has been overperforming in my playgroup for going on two years now, so I'm not in the market for quality White cards at the moment.
That first story is probably the most value Branching Bolt in history.
My only Wingcrafter interaction so far is Ninjitsuing it out with Ninja of the Deep Hours, then replaying it bonding with Ninja.
Instant (C)
Exile two target artifacts, creatures, and/or lands you control, then return those cards to the battlefield under your control.
I like this twist on the flicker effect, as well as the versatility. It's got the usual save a creature/reuse ETB triggers, but also do that and reset Serrated Arrows/Tumble Magnet, get landfall triggers instant-speed and other uses I probably haven't thought of yet.
I'm looking forward to trying it, but not looking forward to finding a spell to cut in order to do so.
Thanks for the feedback. You pointed out many of those cards listed as bad, which I can agree with in most cases. Some of the cards I have in the cube are not as overtly powerful as most of the cards people choose here. Sometimes that's due to player preferences, sometimes it's due to only drafting with a 2-4 people and getting poorly balanced decks with cards the other players can't stop. I moved away from power in some changes, but I've been moving back in that direction lately, so pointing out the cards that seem bad helps.
I was actually setting aside Infantry Veteran when I was looking at Mosquito Guard in my list, so that would likely make it in. I'm still waiting on my M12 cards to arrive though, so Gideon's Lawkeeper will probably take the spot eventually.
Null Champion has been decent in 2 player drafts, which are slower and don't have the high concentration of removal. That's probably skewed my considerations.
I'll try Brainstormagain. People were very excited to play with it when looking through the cards initially, but I watched lots of games with it and not much was gained by playing it in most decks. It felt weird to cut, but I think it was right at the time. Now it might work better.
Bloodfire Dwarf will likely be the Red 1 drop of choice. I already added Bloodfire Infusion (which I didn't know existed until I stumbled upon it a couple months ago) as a way to give Red more sweepers, so the Dwarf is a nice fit.
As for Lumithread Field, I think it's ideal environment would have been triple Onslaught draft. I haven't played it so this may be off, but that environment just seemed like Morhps everywhere, so giving yours an extra toughness would be quite relevant. If there were a cube with that much Morph density, the field might have its day in the sun.
I'll probably go with many of the changes you suggested, though that may wait until I get M12 and NPH cards I ordered in the mail as those will shake things up anyway.
@CrusherX
I've mostly played with newer players (i.e., people I taught how to play the game so we could draft), so blocking happened more often. You and I know it's not the best way to play, but that and other new player mentalities emerged a lot with my friends. That sort of play made inclusions like Lumithread Field and cuts like Crypt Rats, Blastoderm, Shadow creatures, etc. make a strange sort of sense. It's not the most effective draft or play style, so that's why cards most people auto-include were thought to be too overpowered. I do want to move back toward more powerful cards in my cube, so I will probably make some large-scale changes soon. I'll make a post here when I do make changes to get some more input.
Thanks for looking through the list. It's taken a lot of refinement to get to its current form, so I'm glad it looks good to someone else and not just me.
Looking at the particular cards you mentioned:
Mosquito Guard This card's been in the cube for a while, after I fell in love with Burrenton Bombardier. Granted, Reinforce 1 is a lot weaker than Reinforce 3, I still like this guy as a 1 drop that's good early and still relevant late. That sort of card assessment guides many of my card choices. If the cube had a name it'd be Having My Cake and Eating It Too.
Flickering Spirit I only recently added this and haven't a chance to try it yet. I haven't played with it in any draft format, so I don't know how good it is. This spot might be better suited to something like Apex Hawks.
Lumithread Field I think I may have added this mostly because it tickled my fancy, though I've seen it do good work in Pauper constructed. That said, it might be too cute as the enchantment side just seems like marginal value, so this is mostly just a Grey Ogre.
Eel Umbra I never expected so much discussion to emerge from this card. I like it quite a bit, both as a counter to a removal spell and as a way to both increase the clock on an evasive creature while affording it protection down the line. I'll admit to never having tried Counfound. That card may come in at some point, but for now, Eel Umbra has suited me well.
See Beyond This is the card I used to replace Brainstorm, which I didn't like with so few shuffle effects in most decks. Serum Visions might be better for doing the a similar effect, but in looking through my cards, I feel like trying Sift or some other raw card advantage spell since that sort of effect is largely missing from the cube.
Null Champion This card is the lone holdout of the nonwhite Levelers. He replaced Dimir House Guard in the first set of changes I made and I've been happy with him as a midrange to late game creature. Whereas the other Levelers made it into the cube because of my affection for Rise of the Eldrazi drafts, this guy's actually earned his keep.
Looming Shade As strange as it may seem, this card was a replacement for Crypt Rats, which my friends had found very irritating to play with. I wanted to keep a creature that rewarded heavy black and I like a Shade for that sort of role. One of the flying Shades may be better here, or maybe just Wicked Akuba should return.
Wail of the Nim I used this card to replace Haunting Misery when I last made changes, but I'm not sure why. I may reverse that both because Haunting Misery is more interesting and I want to keep "damage to all creatures" effects in Red to give it more of an identity than just attacking and burning faces.
Akki Avalanchers This card struck me as interesting, which might not be suitable reason to keep it. I wanted a 1 drop that could stay relevant later in the game and this can trade with creatures for a while if it comes to that. Looking at other possible Red 1 drops, I'm intrigued by Bloodfire Dwarf, Flailing Soldier, Goblin Cohort, Goblin Grappler, and Jackal Familiar. Anyone familiar with those cards can chime in.
Vigean Hydropon Perhaps this is just one of my pet cards, but I like the effect this thing has. I wish there were better Graft creatures at common (I'd love a Plaxcaster Frogling here). This is a terrible topdeck, however, so I may change it to Shielding Plax, which people initially complained about, but may be more willing to accept now.
I would certainly like Drifter il-Dal in my cube; he's one of my favorite Blue creatures ever. Unfortunately for him, I went through and purged all the Shadow creatures early in the process due to complaints that they made games non-interactive too often. If I get people interested in trying the Cube again (or find other people who would be interested), I'd probably push for their inclusion back in the cube, starting with this guy and Looter il-Kor
For a while, we would have the occasional 6-8 person draft, but mostly 2 player drafts or sealed. As such, some of the card choices were dictated by preference for pet cards or extreme distaste for certain annoying cards (Hymn to Tourach, Sprout Swarm, Blastoderm, Guardian of the Guildpact, Shadow creatures). Largely, my aim for the cube has been versatility of cards, so I err on the side of more artifacts, hybrid cards and Phyrexian mana cards (when I get them).
Anyway, it's been a while since we've drafted the cube, so I wanted to get some input on the cube overall. I'm open to suggestions for changes or just discussion in general about cube drafting.