loran was being unnecessarily jerky, especially for a basic. But the self-modkill from a player who self-admittedly has played mafia elsewhere before and knows better is a bad sign. Experience on mafiascum, at least, tends to suggest that players who do this sort of thing are time bombs waiting to go off and do it again in other games the next time they're having a bad day.
It's bad enough to do it as town cop. He could just as easily have been mafia, revealed the names of his teammates, and ended the game. I wouldn't trust him in one of my games ever, and I wouldn't want to be in a game with him in, because I would always be wondering if he was going to screw up the game after I'd spent hours and hours on it. This is exactly the sort offence that rates blacklisting in my book.
BTW loran, you may want to think about not playing Basics if you're going to be like that in them.
I'm tired and stressed, which may have had a little to do with it. More after the game on this play in general.
But comparing it to GiaG is way off DYH. Just saying. More after the game for certain reasons. If you want to know more, PM me.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Well, I'm just seeing this incident now and don't think anyone ought to be blacklisted for anything yet.
@loran: it may be better to wait until the game is over to fully discuss, but this:
is not helping. From what I saw, "hurting another player's feelings" and "being disrespectful" is exactly what you were doing.
I'll discuss that after the game. My point was simply to have a message making sure players knew replacing out was a fine response to such a situation.
@Jedcaj, understood...I hope you do come back in the future (believe it or not) and find your thoughts on MTGS's atmosphere to have been mistaken. Have a good time elsewhere...as long as you understand what you did was wrong, I have no problem with ya, and i doubt anyone else will either.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
THIS IS A BASIC GAME, MEANT TO HELP NEWER PLAYERS LEARN THE GAME OF MAFIA. THERE MAY BE EXPERIENCED PLAYERS IN THE GAME, BUT THAT IS STILL THE OVERALL PURPOSE OF A BASIC GAME.
If this is your FIRST (or one of your first) games of mafia, we hope you have fun and enjoy the game. But it's certainly possible that you will not and find mafia not to your liking, whether its the nature of the game or because of certain players.
IF YOU FEEL THIS WAY, please tell the mod and if your feelings cannot be reconciled, ask for Replacement. DO NOT GET YOURSELF MODKILLED OR Try and hurt other players' feelings. Mafia is still a game, and replacing out is a way to end your commitment without being disrespectful of others.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I have to say I'm not the biggest fan. I like that newbs, and now basics, throw people to the wolves. And with basics, there are vets in there to sort of direct them and show them how it's done. Coaching is more likely to just get players to take a backseat to their coaches and have them try to imitate the coach's styles....I feel the current way teaches better.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
That's actually not much of an incentive when the player base is thin and very few players are getting randomed out of games. Tales had I think three people out of 22 who were randomed out.
Depends on the situation atm i guess. The earlier example was one where az's game wouldnt come up for a year, but everyone wanted to be in matrix when it came out.
Still i think thered be some incentive...knowing for certain that an /in is an auto-in is better than having a 90% shot.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Here's an idea, why not make every specialty and every normal have some amount of spots (lets say....2-3) that will not be randomly determined (in addition to any the creator intended to give out to certain players on purpose).
If a game needs a replacement and is having issues with finding ones or is after a certain point, the person who replaces in gets an auto-in to the next running normal or specialty.
Sort of what happened for Power Rangers mafia (replacements got into matrix mafia), and it took a game that had died and made it live and finish pretty well.....
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Hmm. I wonder if we shouldn't take a cue from Kraj's FTQ in finding a solution. When setups roll out, have your normal player slots assigned, but also have 2-3 players active as replacements with a randomized town or mafia (or neutral) win condition. The replacements only replace players with their same alignment. No voting powers or abilities, but able to post..
Was this information public about your role in Tales? Or is Kraj going to kill you.
As for it, meh, its possible...
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
The problem is that the vets end up leading the town like a bunch of sheep who are too afraid to take on the more experienced members.
Maybe on day 1 but they're more assertive and aggressive by day 2.
Edit- Ohhhh, I just had an evil idea. Make all newbie games mini blind.
No. Blind games depress activity and require commitments and fail if used too often. Newbs who aren't sure if they want to commit to mafia shouldnt have to deal with that...itll turn away players.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Basics should be different than newbie games. Newbie games should be between 7-20 players based on the amount of new people requesting a game. Sign ups should be only for people who have played 0-1 games.
What are the limits right now?
I dislike newbs being 7-10 players or above mini size....Minis are perfect for introducing newbs.
Basics are now used so that theres a satisfying of demand for older players to play more basic type games while newbs get to play in them as well.
Vets can help newbs learn in the basics while having fun tool.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Of course, the basic used to be the newbies, and the newbies were changed to rolling games because we didn't want newly interested players to wait a month before getting into one. So if we restrict the basics we're undoing the change we made to benefit newer players and expand the player pool.
*Headache*
I never liked rolling newbies. Seemed a bit much then too. Having rolling until a limit (say... 3 games) would be fine and allow us to have the best of both worlds.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I think that it would be easier for everyone involved if sign-up threads were just moved to some hidden forum once the signups are closed.
I think that just having one thread for signups will inevitably result in players missing out on games that they would have wanted to play in.
THIS.
Though i'd slightly alter it. Create a hidden subforum for these signups but only move the signups there AFTER the game is completed. Sometimes the flavor is nice while the game's going on..
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
For those interested, there's an investigation into whether or not we can get nested quotes in the software. Apparently it's an issue with vBulletin, not something that's just in our site.
Works fine for other forums with some form of vBulletin.
Pain in the arse here.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I was kinda trying to not be a dick about it, but check out any game that Seppel is in, and you'll see what I'm talking about. (Dictionary)
I was trying not to be a about seppel either but he's that one player i was mentioning earlier. So if this is the case, perhaps, this one player needs a special warning?
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
It's going on outside of Inheritance, so it isn't just game related.
Is it really? I haven't seen that as much elsewhere. Mind you, double posting in of itself shouldn't be that much of a complaint, i do it all the time when i forget things.
A simple solution is to warn/infract unnecessary double posts. Unpopular and perhaps overly harsh decision (and tough to tell what is "unnecessary"), but it would certainly stop the abuse of the system.
Or game mods could start implementing in game punishments/limits (ie: you have 5 doubleposts per day else lynch threshold down, modkill, etc.)
I dislike this. Mods should encourage players to preview posts and try and use that to avoid double posting (a second read through often makes one realize you need to post something else. ) but punishment is unnecessary.
Double posting should only be a problem if people are using it for unnecessary and spammy reasons. If the double posted part is useful for game reasons, then there's no reason to have a problem.
I don't think that games outside of az have double posts that aren't actual attempts at posting content, so i don't see a problem. Az's game on the other hand, appears to have at least one player using multiple posts for their own sake and has that player seemingly avoiding putting all of thought out content in one post, but spreading it out over like 5 posts instead.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
It's a multi-fold problem. Most of the people doing this are from MiseTings, where that behavior is allowed. Apparently it's too much to expect them to follow the rules of our site when they come play here.
Agreed for the most part, but i'm pretty sure that Seppel is from here.
Another part of it is the fact that Az's game rewards top poster(s), so naturally people are trying to post as much as they can.
Yeah, I'd say this is a fail for the mechanic. It overincentivizes posting to the point where things are just annoying
I agree that it should be brought to a halt, though. It is ridiculously obnoxious.
Well not to ruin the active game, but just say that double posts don't count for amount of posts and ask the mod to merge all double posts in the game each night if possible (Yes i know that's annoying for Arim, but he's in the game anyhow and its better that way). This way it makes people not want to double post unless they truely forgot something..
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
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I'm tired and stressed, which may have had a little to do with it. More after the game on this play in general.
But comparing it to GiaG is way off DYH. Just saying. More after the game for certain reasons. If you want to know more, PM me.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I'll discuss that after the game. My point was simply to have a message making sure players knew replacing out was a fine response to such a situation.
@Jedcaj, understood...I hope you do come back in the future (believe it or not) and find your thoughts on MTGS's atmosphere to have been mistaken. Have a good time elsewhere...as long as you understand what you did was wrong, I have no problem with ya, and i doubt anyone else will either.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Add in big bold face font in the rules:
THIS IS A BASIC GAME, MEANT TO HELP NEWER PLAYERS LEARN THE GAME OF MAFIA. THERE MAY BE EXPERIENCED PLAYERS IN THE GAME, BUT THAT IS STILL THE OVERALL PURPOSE OF A BASIC GAME.
If this is your FIRST (or one of your first) games of mafia, we hope you have fun and enjoy the game. But it's certainly possible that you will not and find mafia not to your liking, whether its the nature of the game or because of certain players.
IF YOU FEEL THIS WAY, please tell the mod and if your feelings cannot be reconciled, ask for Replacement. DO NOT GET YOURSELF MODKILLED OR Try and hurt other players' feelings. Mafia is still a game, and replacing out is a way to end your commitment without being disrespectful of others.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I have to say I'm not the biggest fan. I like that newbs, and now basics, throw people to the wolves. And with basics, there are vets in there to sort of direct them and show them how it's done. Coaching is more likely to just get players to take a backseat to their coaches and have them try to imitate the coach's styles....I feel the current way teaches better.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Depends on the situation atm i guess. The earlier example was one where az's game wouldnt come up for a year, but everyone wanted to be in matrix when it came out.
Still i think thered be some incentive...knowing for certain that an /in is an auto-in is better than having a 90% shot.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
If a game needs a replacement and is having issues with finding ones or is after a certain point, the person who replaces in gets an auto-in to the next running normal or specialty.
Sort of what happened for Power Rangers mafia (replacements got into matrix mafia), and it took a game that had died and made it live and finish pretty well.....
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Was this information public about your role in Tales? Or is Kraj going to kill you.
As for it, meh, its possible...
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Maybe on day 1 but they're more assertive and aggressive by day 2.
No. Blind games depress activity and require commitments and fail if used too often. Newbs who aren't sure if they want to commit to mafia shouldnt have to deal with that...itll turn away players.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I dislike newbs being 7-10 players or above mini size....Minis are perfect for introducing newbs.
Basics are now used so that theres a satisfying of demand for older players to play more basic type games while newbs get to play in them as well.
Vets can help newbs learn in the basics while having fun tool.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I never liked rolling newbies. Seemed a bit much then too. Having rolling until a limit (say... 3 games) would be fine and allow us to have the best of both worlds.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
THIS.
Though i'd slightly alter it. Create a hidden subforum for these signups but only move the signups there AFTER the game is completed. Sometimes the flavor is nice while the game's going on..
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Works fine for other forums with some form of vBulletin.
Pain in the arse here.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I was trying not to be a about seppel either but he's that one player i was mentioning earlier. So if this is the case, perhaps, this one player needs a special warning?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Is it really? I haven't seen that as much elsewhere. Mind you, double posting in of itself shouldn't be that much of a complaint, i do it all the time when i forget things.
I dislike this. Mods should encourage players to preview posts and try and use that to avoid double posting (a second read through often makes one realize you need to post something else. ) but punishment is unnecessary.
Double posting should only be a problem if people are using it for unnecessary and spammy reasons. If the double posted part is useful for game reasons, then there's no reason to have a problem.
I don't think that games outside of az have double posts that aren't actual attempts at posting content, so i don't see a problem. Az's game on the other hand, appears to have at least one player using multiple posts for their own sake and has that player seemingly avoiding putting all of thought out content in one post, but spreading it out over like 5 posts instead.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Agreed for the most part, but i'm pretty sure that Seppel is from here.
Yeah, I'd say this is a fail for the mechanic. It overincentivizes posting to the point where things are just annoying
Well not to ruin the active game, but just say that double posts don't count for amount of posts and ask the mod to merge all double posts in the game each night if possible (Yes i know that's annoying for Arim, but he's in the game anyhow and its better that way). This way it makes people not want to double post unless they truely forgot something..
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity