I second this - it seems the playerbase can handle another Normal or Mini right now.
We did just have a normal and an FTQ open up at once due to those types of games ending. It does tend to make it look-like there's more players at once than there are.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
The only contribution I have on the subject is that generally speaking, if you're going to distribute roles in a way other than completely at random, you shouldn't inform your players of the fact.
Yep. I mean, i actually did inform DYH of it in SoIaF....but I had given him a very poor role (it was intentionally difficult, a survivor who needed a character dead to win and whom was wanted for death by a single mafia member) which was intended to be difficult to win, and I wanted him to know that i'd given it to him due to my appreciation of his skill.
(IN retrospect, this was a bad idea because DYH was wanted dead by the scum because of his skill to begin with, making the role even more hard).
But in general, you shouldn't inform the players about that.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
If he's already worked out who will be who then that opens the door for some massive mod-gaming and it pretty much ruins the game before it has even started. Maybe he chose who would actually be playing on the basis of who he wanted to, not in a fair and random way. And maybe he decided to randomly give Syrenz priority because he likes Syrenz a lot and wanted to make sure he could play. He still hasn't explained himself over that one yet.
How does it ruin the game already? Moreover, he stated that except for Syrenz and lrd that everyone would be subject to being randomed out. So you're saying he lied?
If you don't trust the mod on that, well then...why are you playing in his game?
Anyhow, we're taking up two thread on this, so lets just talk in the south park sign up thread.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Joboman has explicitly stated in the South Park Mafia thread that he will NOT be randomly selecting roles. Can one of the council members please take this up with him?
Take what up with him? You'll need to explain why his suggestion is a bad thing before you actually can complain you know.
(From a legal perspective, put it this way. To get the Council to even care you have to explain why this is bad. Then the council might decide to ask Joboman why he's doing it. If they're satisfied by whatever reason he gives, he can do it. But before they even ask him, you have to at least give forth a reason why it's a bad thing.)
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Re: PM Quoting: Modkills for this should only be done if the quoted information can result in a change of other players' thoughts toward that player because of how that information is quoted.
I recently modkilled ZDS in my last game (Ghost Town) for PM Quoting.
But in that case, the situation was that he had reference something that someone could only have known by seeing the PM. He described his type of role being described with an orange color and the format, which would have led the other player with that type of PM to believe him to have a similar PM, or to have talked and seen a mafia player's PM that had that format. That's a clear narrowing of possibilities entirely from the copied FORMAT, rather than the information.
In other words, PM Quoting should merit banning if the information that comes out of it comes from the FORMAT of how the information is given, rather than the information itself.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I know I've been on loran's side here before, but I've recently come around to Axel's point of view. The trick is to get people to reduce their normal game sizes instead of increase the mini game size. I've always found games over 20 players to be too hard to keep track of, which is a large part of the reason I often lurk days 1 and 2 of normals and am much more active in minis. I know my next normal is going to be 16 players tops.
Another way to go about this would be to just get the cool designers to start submitting 16 player FTQ games.
The problem is that the FTQ might not be an option.
For example, the game i wish to run is Too Much Scum Mafia #2 (6 Townies, 2 Cops, 2 Mafia 1, 4 Mafia 2 (with no kill). The original game had 9 town 7 scum.
Reducing the game to 12 is really poor (the game is meant to be a test essentially of pure mafia skill without the boring standardness of a vanilla game and reducing it to 12 makes it well less of a test because an early bad lynch.)
I'm not asking for 16. But an exception at times to go to 14 should be appropriate.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
It'll probably make the duration of each game on the mini queue longer though, which supersede the attraction of a faster queue as compared to the normal queue.
Just playing the devil's advocate here.
Probably. 2 extra players i'd guess would add 1 week to every mini game (1 extra day every 2 or so games).
Mini games don't particularly go very long and they'd still go far shorter than the normal game.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
So i know the subject has been broached before, but I'd like to ask if we could amend the requirements so that minis are allowed to have 12-14 players or at the very least 12-13 players.
Nobody wants to do intermediate size games anymore with the Normal Mafia slot, and since i assume 16 is right out, i'd like to see if minis could be expanded to 14.
(In case you're wondering, I intend to do when my turn comes up in 6 months or so TMS Mafia #2, and well....12 just seems too small. The original had 16.)
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Well, right now was unusual due to Kraj's game "ending" early that way with that many players freed up at once. I'm always cautious about overstraining the player base, what has activity been like recently in existing games that are past the first day rush?
I wouldn't know, people keep killing me off
You know, I'd be sympathetic to your problem, but Ghost Town was engineered for players like you.....and well....*looks at signup list*.
Incidentally, I'd support a Mid-game replacing a mini.
So currently we have: FTQ, Specialty, Normal, Normal, Mini, Mini and countless basics.
I'd remove a Mini from the queue and replace it with a 16-person setup. (To be fair, we'd keep the current mini-queue and just let people decide whether to wait for a 12 person game or to alter their setup to 16 person when their time came up).
Once Again, I Point Out.....those seeking extra games SHOULD FEEL FREE to join a basic. The Basics were meant to be more than a newb game, you know....
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I actually dislike Quicktopic boards, they have no structure/organization at all really.
So? You have a constant stream of conversation. Do you need to segregate mafia talk by topic?
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Not to mention the fact that it's still super early in development and has bugs everywhere.
I think the game would play very differently on Wave, but could be fun in its own right (even without an easy quote feature). The playback feature is nice, but it could take a lot of time to run through. I guess if Wave ever gains enough momentum we could find out.
EDIT: Also could be good for mafia communication threads.
EDIT 2: I've still got 7 "invites" (quotes because they don't go through immediately). If anyone wants one, shoot me a PM with your email (preferably a gmail account as you need one to sign up).
Eh, it can't be worse than google groups. Seriously, Quicktopic boards are so much easier than google groups for mafia chat.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Umm, why would an FTQ be submitted to the mafiascribe account? I'd think it would be submitted to just one reviewer, so as to maximize the amount of council members who could play.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
You can replace back into a game if you had no information which isn't public, AND that is itself known to the town, because otherwise you be allowed to replace back in tells them something.
It can still be a bit iffy, particularly if the mafia killed the person to remove their analysis from the game. I prefer that it doesn't happen unless it's the only choice, even if the person was a vanilla and their PM made public on death.
I prefer for the 2nd reason that this is only used in emergencies. I tend to advocate kills of analysts while scum, and having an analyst formerly killed replace back in is really really annoying.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Loran takes the next slot after that, provided activity issues won't interfere.
Since both setups had great promise, and we've begun to see multiple setups competing at a high level of quality, we've decided to return the FTQ to being an actual queue when the situation falls within that pattern.
Lovely. Only a game late. Waiting and Waiting. Wheee. Yes my mental state is not very good right now outside of mafia, so don't mind my bitterness.
Oh well, my mini's up in the mean time.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
With Tales of the Fantastic over, is loran16 getting the next FTQ slot, or are submissions being thrown open again?
I'm not planning on submitting one this time around, so this isn't for me - I just want to keep things moving along.
AFAIK, the submissions are being thrown open. But I'm not on the council and its their call. My game's back in the running in any case.
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
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We did just have a normal and an FTQ open up at once due to those types of games ending. It does tend to make it look-like there's more players at once than there are.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Yep. I mean, i actually did inform DYH of it in SoIaF....but I had given him a very poor role (it was intentionally difficult, a survivor who needed a character dead to win and whom was wanted for death by a single mafia member) which was intended to be difficult to win, and I wanted him to know that i'd given it to him due to my appreciation of his skill.
(IN retrospect, this was a bad idea because DYH was wanted dead by the scum because of his skill to begin with, making the role even more hard).
But in general, you shouldn't inform the players about that.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
How does it ruin the game already? Moreover, he stated that except for Syrenz and lrd that everyone would be subject to being randomed out. So you're saying he lied?
If you don't trust the mod on that, well then...why are you playing in his game?
Anyhow, we're taking up two thread on this, so lets just talk in the south park sign up thread.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Take what up with him? You'll need to explain why his suggestion is a bad thing before you actually can complain you know.
(From a legal perspective, put it this way. To get the Council to even care you have to explain why this is bad. Then the council might decide to ask Joboman why he's doing it. If they're satisfied by whatever reason he gives, he can do it. But before they even ask him, you have to at least give forth a reason why it's a bad thing.)
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I recently modkilled ZDS in my last game (Ghost Town) for PM Quoting.
But in that case, the situation was that he had reference something that someone could only have known by seeing the PM. He described his type of role being described with an orange color and the format, which would have led the other player with that type of PM to believe him to have a similar PM, or to have talked and seen a mafia player's PM that had that format. That's a clear narrowing of possibilities entirely from the copied FORMAT, rather than the information.
In other words, PM Quoting should merit banning if the information that comes out of it comes from the FORMAT of how the information is given, rather than the information itself.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
The problem is that the FTQ might not be an option.
For example, the game i wish to run is Too Much Scum Mafia #2 (6 Townies, 2 Cops, 2 Mafia 1, 4 Mafia 2 (with no kill). The original game had 9 town 7 scum.
Reducing the game to 12 is really poor (the game is meant to be a test essentially of pure mafia skill without the boring standardness of a vanilla game and reducing it to 12 makes it well less of a test because an early bad lynch.)
I'm not asking for 16. But an exception at times to go to 14 should be appropriate.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Probably. 2 extra players i'd guess would add 1 week to every mini game (1 extra day every 2 or so games).
Mini games don't particularly go very long and they'd still go far shorter than the normal game.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Nobody wants to do intermediate size games anymore with the Normal Mafia slot, and since i assume 16 is right out, i'd like to see if minis could be expanded to 14.
(In case you're wondering, I intend to do when my turn comes up in 6 months or so TMS Mafia #2, and well....12 just seems too small. The original had 16.)
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
You know, I'd be sympathetic to your problem, but Ghost Town was engineered for players like you.....and well....*looks at signup list*.
Incidentally, I'd support a Mid-game replacing a mini.
So currently we have: FTQ, Specialty, Normal, Normal, Mini, Mini and countless basics.
I'd remove a Mini from the queue and replace it with a 16-person setup. (To be fair, we'd keep the current mini-queue and just let people decide whether to wait for a 12 person game or to alter their setup to 16 person when their time came up).
Once Again, I Point Out.....those seeking extra games SHOULD FEEL FREE to join a basic. The Basics were meant to be more than a newb game, you know....
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
So? You have a constant stream of conversation. Do you need to segregate mafia talk by topic?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Eh, it can't be worse than google groups. Seriously, Quicktopic boards are so much easier than google groups for mafia chat.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I prefer for the 2nd reason that this is only used in emergencies. I tend to advocate kills of analysts while scum, and having an analyst formerly killed replace back in is really really annoying.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Lovely. Only a game late. Waiting and Waiting. Wheee. Yes my mental state is not very good right now outside of mafia, so don't mind my bitterness.
Oh well, my mini's up in the mean time.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
AFAIK, the submissions are being thrown open. But I'm not on the council and its their call. My game's back in the running in any case.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity