FWIW, My opinion should count for Zilch here. Zero, Nada, Squat, given that my presence in the forum has been non-existent lately.
But I'm of the opinion that non-mafia conduct shouldn't come into play. If the mafia play results in probation, do that. Don't ban based on other conduct.
The basic ban sounds good to me as well incidentally.
---------------------------
Off topic: RafaelK: Liked the thrawn post. Axelrod: Back to that custom tag, huh? Haven't learned from last year? Azrael: Love the cross-examination.
And now back to 2L studying for exams.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
In an unrelated topic, I'd like to apologize to everyone for my inactivity this summer, and my needing replacement in south park. I thought i had enough time to end my mafia sabbatical...and it turned out not to be the case.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I think the issue could have been approached better, but there's really no reason the message shouldn't have come from extremeicon. Even ignoring being a global, this is his area and he's the only mod directly dealing with the entire forum games section. I do understand the insider/outsider mentality, but to be blunt that's not really something the staff should care about when it comes to rules enforcement. Every subforum has its own regulars and its own mod(s) that are more familiar with that area, but no subforum has a privileged set of staffers allowed to enforce the rules there.
What's different about the Mafia subforum is its the only subforum i can think of (maybe coliseum? Don't read there myself) where the playerbase may stay out of the entire rest of the site. There are more than a few players here who are entirely mafia players, and dont play MTG.
So while it's certainly not necessary that every announcement comes from a mod we're familiar with, it will certainly require a lot more tact due to the insider-outsider mentality, and having one make the announcement will automatically make us feel a lot better.
The staff should care about making their announcements as easy as possible, with little controversy. Every little thing should help. Sad as it may be that you have to do it, but Mods should be able to play politics.
Without getting too off-topic or speaking too much for Nai, yes, he is perfectly aware that the error was his. That doesn't change the fact that for years now his name gets dragged out every single time the mafia group has a conflict with the staff. Personally, I'm sick of it and it all went down before I even became a mod or played mafia, so I can just imagine how he feels.
Eh. This is a natural consequence. Whenever the first time conflict happens between two groups, that time will be brought out whenever another conflict occurs, regardless of how long it's been or how much better the relationship between those two groups have been since. Natural Consequence of Memory.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
That's putting it lightly. Though I've also been out of town.
A few things to consider:
First of all, please stop saying bold red has been used for five years without complaint. The mafia subforum rules explicitly state no bold red text because it was added about two years ago when this issue last came under scrutiny among the staff. The fact that enforcement has been lax since then is a failing of the staff's, including myself. (I will, however, point out that none of the games I have run have used bold red text. I've not been enforcing the rule, but I have been adhering to it.)
Second, while the use of bold red may not be causing a problem within this area, several mods have experienced users posting in bold red in other areas and then expressing confusing over seeing it accepted here. So this isn't just an issue of how the rule affects the mafia section, nor is it just about enforcing the letter of the law versus the spirit; there is a valid case to be made that enforcing this rule strictly here is better for the site as a whole.
Thanks for the great explanation Kraj. In all honesty, with no disrespect intended to extremeicon, i think this whole issue would've gone over much easier had it been left to Kraj or Arim to explain and announce the decision. I understand Extremeicon is the big honcho here in forum games, but you have to understand there is sort of an insider vs outsider mentality on here.
2. On a personal note, please stop referencing the incident with Nai like it was some kind of victory. The way the community treated and continues to treat him over it has made him more or less permanently uncomfortable participating in mafia here, and anyone who bothers to read the game Lesurgo hosted among the staff will see what the community lost by alienating him.
Speaking of the insider vs outsider mentality, while this might be a sad result (of his alienation removing his talents from mafia play), even Nai has to understand by now why this happened, and why people think of it as a "victory." He acted over a very petty issue for little reason, before ever being in this subforum (he then played games around the same time, but before the controversy had been a newb), and thus got disrespect.
Should we have continued to treat him like we have? Probably not. But lets not try and argue that his actions weren't silly and unnecessary.
The actions here have been given a good reason and don't really lose us much. The actions Nai was trying to take had 0 good reason and ruined a fun little ditty (the bah posts, or double posts with little content for fun).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Kraj has agreed to become the latest addition to the mafia council.
Once again another person who i forgot wasn't actually on the council. An oversight nicely corrected.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I just got two ideas. Might be answers to problems that don't exist, but meh...
1. Have a rule to the effect that to mod a game, you have to either be in an ongoing game, or have been in a game during the last X months (6, perhaps?).
The idea here is to make sure that we cater to our own players. It prevents non-active players and people that play on other sites to take up slots on already long hosting lists. The X should be sufficiently large so that people could take a couple of months off, without fearing for losing their spot.
No.
I know at least several players have taken long mafia hiatuses, but whom were looking forward in a year+ to coming back to mod a game they were on the hosting list. This is totally acceptable.
This rule is not needed, there's no problem to fix.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Ah, that's a very good point. That really is the key element. We can encourage co-modding in all its forms so that newer hosts can gain experience, but still safeguard against any potential abuse.
If only one player signs up for a slot, then that player must be around in order to use it when the turn comes, regardless of whatever other people may be collaborating with them. If multiple players sign up, then any can run it to any extent.
Does that sound fair?
That's good. Obvious clarification to this rule: This rule doesn't stop a co-mod of stepping in once a game has started going (as in, day 1 has started already) if the original listed mod disappears. This shouldn't happen except in dire circumstances anyhow...but it's a good clarification just in case.
The rule also would prevent joboman situations from occurring again incidentally, which i have no problem with.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I agree with DYH and Arimnaes. Active participation in the general hosting of the game equals, in my opinion, co-mod status.
However, I'm thinking that there could perhaps be made a distinction between co-mod and backup-mod. The backup-mod takes no part in the normal running of the game, and steps in only in cases like the ones Loran mentioned - too much school, sickness, and other unforeseen events.
Depends upon what you mean. Ced395 was doing vote counts for my game as well and could theoretically have made a modkill (though he obviously wouldn't without consulting me or it being really obvious).
Also, i have no problem with a player writing flavor. From asianinvasion's description, Asian is simply writing flavor to ALREADY MADE ROLES. He does not have total creative freedom. Meanwhile its a great experience for him to have for when he actually is hosting.
We should want to encourage such things.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I didn't ask ced to write any flavor, but i had him as my co-mod of Ghost-Town in case I was too busy to post vote counts or had to take a while off due to school or other unforeseen stuff. Ced meanwhile didn't need to take his name off any list. Why should he? He was basically co-modding, and could take over if i disappeared (he had the role PMs and mod notes). And yet, his being the co-mod didn't alter the hosting list in any way shape or form.
Co-Modding should be ENCOURAGED as a way for new mods to learn what it takes to run a game and to get their feet wet. It should also be encouraged to increase stability and to prevent games from dieing randomly due to mod-disappearance, which sucks for the players.
Meanwhile, it doesn't affect the player list because it doesn't result in extra games being run ahead of other players on the list.
Now yes, writing flavor for the game does make this almost more a product of the co-mod here than usual, but at the same time...it isn't hurting anyone by putting an extra player on the list ahead of others and AsianInvasion DOES NOT have full creative freedom like he would over his own game.
------------------------------------------------------------ The LINE we should DRAW is Simply this:
If a co-modding activity is clearly simply an attempt by one player near the top of the list to donate his slot, and full creative control, to another player, then it's no good.
===So theoretically, the South Park situation might come close, if it was clear that Niv's disappearance was entirely so Joboman could run the game. But given that Niv has disappeared entirely (for the second time no less) and had to be replaced out of another game and a game of Diplomacy, this is clearly not the case.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I'm filing a Rule 12(f) motion to strike on this argument. The Council Code of Mafia Administration Title VI, Chapter 546, Section 4(B)(1)(c), subsection (II) clearly states that all players have standing as private attorneys general to lodge complaints.
Also, pursuant to CCAM Chapter 777, etc. etc. disappearing soon before your turn comes up results in a limited waiver of modding rights. If you have a co-mod, it should be fine to allow them to move forward without you until your return, unless you've gone on record saying otherwise.
(Or, instead of going all legalese on each other, we could just talk about this stuff like normal people and decide if it's a good idea.)
The problem here is that I don't think any of us are fully aware of what Niv would actually want here, or whether he's coming back anytime soon. If he had a problem with it, I'd say it'd be fair to come up with some sort of solution. If he comes back soon, or doesn't have a beef, all's well with the world.
I'm bringing a motion to have Rule 11 Sanctions issued against Azrael for his inethical and improper conduct as a lawyer/mafia-player.
(In other words, I'm glad civil procedure is over...)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I think the problem everyone has taken with you, Manders, is that you've been attacking a well-respected player on this site, simply because he hasn't been along very long. Sure he hasn't been waiting for years to get to the top of the list like Zionite has, but you don't see Zionite complaining.
The key point is this: you don't have a Standing to Sue(insert wikipedia link here). You haven't been hurt by it, so you don't have a right to object to it.
Well respected? really? I don't think that term means what you think it does.
Manders_Hex is totally welcome to voice his opinion. He's wrong. But he can voice his opinion.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
My complaint is not that he might mess up. That doesn't matter to me in the least.
And, honestly, it's not really a complaint so much as me expressing my opinion. He should not have been allowed to post the sign-ups if the actual mod of the game was not around. It appears that I'm the only one that feels this way, so w/e, but I will not apologize for my opinions.
He's not a tag-along mod. He's the CO-MOD.
It's not like he's skipping the list out of the blue. See the editted version of my last post.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Of note...this is the main reason for having a co-mod (it's why i had one for ghost town).
We've approved of using co-modding as a way for people to "host" faster (instead of hosting separately, two players combine to be on the list together) and well, this is exactly part of the abilities of a co-mod. Ideally, the co-mods each have a copy of the setup so that if one disappears, the game doesn't crash. But here it was fine since the game hadn't been started yet.
EDIT: Manders, we accept co-modding as a way to get around waiting. This is fine. It doesn't rob your of your chance since you have the same amount of games in front of you as if there was no co-modding.
Sure you might otherwise benefit if people drop off the list due to disappearing when it's their time for starting, but you're not ENTITLED to any benefit. It's a bonus. So you don't lose anything via others co-modding. And it makes games run smoother and results in newer players getting better mod experience.
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I said about goo mafia as an example.
I was lucky and another replace was needed in the game I wanted to get in. Also I'm looking for a way to clarify this with jobo.
There's really little to clarify. If Joboman says that he randomly chose you as the unlucky player to be randomed-out after being luckily randomed-in*, then it's unfortunate, it's in bad taste, but it's totally fair.
*Note: If he kept the original randomization and you were the last player randomed-in, then taking you out for that reason is fine too. The Key is that you weren't deliberately singled out for removal.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
No. That's not what I meant. You asked me what would I have done. My problem is tat if this happen often I will stop playing here because of this. I don't like to out on some of my games just because I know I'm in another game.
Okay. Let's start with the first thing:
1. What Joboman did was not ideal, and is certainly not encouraged. He should have checked the balance, then announced who got in.
2. If Joboman's decision of who amongst his list of originally gotten in players was RANDOM, then it is fine though. This is impossible to prove, so whatever. Remember Joboman basically had to make the game from scratch after Niv disappeared (AGAIN).
3. You COULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN AN AUTO-IN to Goo Mafia. YOU CANNOT REPLACE OUT OF A GAME solely and entirely to take advantage of an Auto-in for those not playing any games.
Hell you probably shouldn't be allowed to replace out of a game and then enter immediately a new game, though I'm willing to make exceptions on this rule (If you replace out of a specialty or normal on day 1 to enter a mini/basic because you find you can't keep up with that many players...totally understandable. Replacing out of a basic to enter a Specialty....not so much)
See the aforementioned reasons by Azrael, Axelrod, Nom_Anor, etc. In addition, such an action would be attempting to cheat the spirit of Dagger's auto-in policy. NOT COOL.
4. Since you actually signed up for Goo Mafia and just didnt' get in randomly, you really haven't had any injury as a result of Joboman's sillyness....so you should have less to complain about.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
But I'm of the opinion that non-mafia conduct shouldn't come into play. If the mafia play results in probation, do that. Don't ban based on other conduct.
The basic ban sounds good to me as well incidentally.
---------------------------
Off topic:
RafaelK: Liked the thrawn post.
Axelrod: Back to that custom tag, huh? Haven't learned from last year?
Azrael: Love the cross-examination.
And now back to 2L studying for exams.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
What's different about the Mafia subforum is its the only subforum i can think of (maybe coliseum? Don't read there myself) where the playerbase may stay out of the entire rest of the site. There are more than a few players here who are entirely mafia players, and dont play MTG.
So while it's certainly not necessary that every announcement comes from a mod we're familiar with, it will certainly require a lot more tact due to the insider-outsider mentality, and having one make the announcement will automatically make us feel a lot better.
The staff should care about making their announcements as easy as possible, with little controversy. Every little thing should help. Sad as it may be that you have to do it, but Mods should be able to play politics.
Eh. This is a natural consequence. Whenever the first time conflict happens between two groups, that time will be brought out whenever another conflict occurs, regardless of how long it's been or how much better the relationship between those two groups have been since. Natural Consequence of Memory.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Thanks for the great explanation Kraj. In all honesty, with no disrespect intended to extremeicon, i think this whole issue would've gone over much easier had it been left to Kraj or Arim to explain and announce the decision. I understand Extremeicon is the big honcho here in forum games, but you have to understand there is sort of an insider vs outsider mentality on here.
Speaking of the insider vs outsider mentality, while this might be a sad result (of his alienation removing his talents from mafia play), even Nai has to understand by now why this happened, and why people think of it as a "victory." He acted over a very petty issue for little reason, before ever being in this subforum (he then played games around the same time, but before the controversy had been a newb), and thus got disrespect.
Should we have continued to treat him like we have? Probably not. But lets not try and argue that his actions weren't silly and unnecessary.
The actions here have been given a good reason and don't really lose us much. The actions Nai was trying to take had 0 good reason and ruined a fun little ditty (the bah posts, or double posts with little content for fun).
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Once again another person who i forgot wasn't actually on the council. An oversight nicely corrected.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
No.
I know at least several players have taken long mafia hiatuses, but whom were looking forward in a year+ to coming back to mod a game they were on the hosting list. This is totally acceptable.
This rule is not needed, there's no problem to fix.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
That's good. Obvious clarification to this rule: This rule doesn't stop a co-mod of stepping in once a game has started going (as in, day 1 has started already) if the original listed mod disappears. This shouldn't happen except in dire circumstances anyhow...but it's a good clarification just in case.
The rule also would prevent joboman situations from occurring again incidentally, which i have no problem with.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Depends upon what you mean. Ced395 was doing vote counts for my game as well and could theoretically have made a modkill (though he obviously wouldn't without consulting me or it being really obvious).
Also, i have no problem with a player writing flavor. From asianinvasion's description, Asian is simply writing flavor to ALREADY MADE ROLES. He does not have total creative freedom. Meanwhile its a great experience for him to have for when he actually is hosting.
We should want to encourage such things.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I didn't ask ced to write any flavor, but i had him as my co-mod of Ghost-Town in case I was too busy to post vote counts or had to take a while off due to school or other unforeseen stuff. Ced meanwhile didn't need to take his name off any list. Why should he? He was basically co-modding, and could take over if i disappeared (he had the role PMs and mod notes). And yet, his being the co-mod didn't alter the hosting list in any way shape or form.
Co-Modding should be ENCOURAGED as a way for new mods to learn what it takes to run a game and to get their feet wet. It should also be encouraged to increase stability and to prevent games from dieing randomly due to mod-disappearance, which sucks for the players.
Meanwhile, it doesn't affect the player list because it doesn't result in extra games being run ahead of other players on the list.
Now yes, writing flavor for the game does make this almost more a product of the co-mod here than usual, but at the same time...it isn't hurting anyone by putting an extra player on the list ahead of others and AsianInvasion DOES NOT have full creative freedom like he would over his own game.
------------------------------------------------------------
The LINE we should DRAW is Simply this:
If a co-modding activity is clearly simply an attempt by one player near the top of the list to donate his slot, and full creative control, to another player, then it's no good.
===So theoretically, the South Park situation might come close, if it was clear that Niv's disappearance was entirely so Joboman could run the game. But given that Niv has disappeared entirely (for the second time no less) and had to be replaced out of another game and a game of Diplomacy, this is clearly not the case.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I'm bringing a motion to have Rule 11 Sanctions issued against Azrael for his inethical and improper conduct as a lawyer/mafia-player.
(In other words, I'm glad civil procedure is over...)
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Well respected? really? I don't think that term means what you think it does.
Manders_Hex is totally welcome to voice his opinion. He's wrong. But he can voice his opinion.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
He's not a tag-along mod. He's the CO-MOD.
It's not like he's skipping the list out of the blue. See the editted version of my last post.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
We've approved of using co-modding as a way for people to "host" faster (instead of hosting separately, two players combine to be on the list together) and well, this is exactly part of the abilities of a co-mod. Ideally, the co-mods each have a copy of the setup so that if one disappears, the game doesn't crash. But here it was fine since the game hadn't been started yet.
EDIT: Manders, we accept co-modding as a way to get around waiting. This is fine. It doesn't rob your of your chance since you have the same amount of games in front of you as if there was no co-modding.
Sure you might otherwise benefit if people drop off the list due to disappearing when it's their time for starting, but you're not ENTITLED to any benefit. It's a bonus. So you don't lose anything via others co-modding. And it makes games run smoother and results in newer players getting better mod experience.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
There's really little to clarify. If Joboman says that he randomly chose you as the unlucky player to be randomed-out after being luckily randomed-in*, then it's unfortunate, it's in bad taste, but it's totally fair.
*Note: If he kept the original randomization and you were the last player randomed-in, then taking you out for that reason is fine too. The Key is that you weren't deliberately singled out for removal.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Okay. Let's start with the first thing:
1. What Joboman did was not ideal, and is certainly not encouraged. He should have checked the balance, then announced who got in.
2. If Joboman's decision of who amongst his list of originally gotten in players was RANDOM, then it is fine though. This is impossible to prove, so whatever. Remember Joboman basically had to make the game from scratch after Niv disappeared (AGAIN).
3. You COULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN AN AUTO-IN to Goo Mafia. YOU CANNOT REPLACE OUT OF A GAME solely and entirely to take advantage of an Auto-in for those not playing any games.
Hell you probably shouldn't be allowed to replace out of a game and then enter immediately a new game, though I'm willing to make exceptions on this rule (If you replace out of a specialty or normal on day 1 to enter a mini/basic because you find you can't keep up with that many players...totally understandable. Replacing out of a basic to enter a Specialty....not so much)
See the aforementioned reasons by Azrael, Axelrod, Nom_Anor, etc. In addition, such an action would be attempting to cheat the spirit of Dagger's auto-in policy. NOT COOL.
4. Since you actually signed up for Goo Mafia and just didnt' get in randomly, you really haven't had any injury as a result of Joboman's sillyness....so you should have less to complain about.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity