anyone know a good list we can tutor for Traverse the Ulvenwald. seems like there's a lot now we can tutor for if we want to beat specific decks. Just searching some stuff and some i'm not familiar with :
playtest abit today and kataki is not so nessesary with the meta right now. I've replaced kataki with manglehorn (good against tron, adneaseum, affinity, hollow one, kci). I find kataki doesn't do anything on tron.
since i dont have gaddock teeg yet. i've been playing with phyrexian revoker and its good against tron, uw control, afinity, kci and adneseum. i believe teeg is still better but with the combination of manglehorn, reclamation sage, and pyrexian revoker, matchups gets really better. bad against jeskai tho.
also playing 4 basics now and 1 fast land. tried twilight mire and its a bad idea. u got some hands when u have colorless and cant cast spells. having 9 fetches is good tho.
and do we have sideboard guide for kci? just wanted to compare how I sideboard from jund to abzan.
The Mardu matchup is good because of trample. You have 6 big tramplers, and their removal isen't the best against them. Shouldn't be hard to find 2-3 tramplers with traverse etc, and its hard to lose from there. You can get overrun by flying tokens or screwed by blood moon, but it was one of my most favorable matchups during testing.
Hollow one is probably the easiest of all matchups. Burning inquiry actually favors you a lot of times. Once you get a 4/5 or 5/6 goyf on the battlefield (which shouldn't be hard) you get to block the most important threats. Rhino also very good here.
Just play the control game on this one. Kill those flameblade adepts (they can get out of control very quickly) and put a blocker to control the game. Post sb bring in bojuka bog (go to 20 lands), spellbomb, 1-2 surgical, 2 damnation, reclamation sage and a maelstrom pulse. Play the control game. Leyline of the Void is their best tool against you (and really the best card against this deck), it really hurts but you can still win (goyfs, rhinos, rec sage, pulse etc).
Humans is similar to hollow one, you have plenty of removal and 2 damnations post sb. Mostly I lost to a combination of freebooters and sin collectors taking my spot removal/damnations. Good MU in any case
Control is slightly unfavored. UW depends mostly on Liliana, otherwise it will be tough. It's hard to set delirium against them since you have few targets for your instants, and your creatures get exiled. Liliana does a LOT of work though, so it's your main card in this matchup. Gaddock teeg is amazing post sb.
Jeskai is less dependent on Lilianas, your threats can evade most of their removal, its still a tough grindy game, but you can come out favored (I beat 2 Jeskais on the GP pretty convincingly, but they weren't great players)
In any case, one of the things I like about this archetype is that every match is winnable, even if unfavorable
MU's during GP were: 2 Eldra Tron, 2 G Tron, 3 scapeshift, 2 jeskai, 2 hollow one, 2 humans, 1 As foretold/living end, 1 Jund, 1 affinity, 2 pyromancer
the matchups you faced weren't very easy by the looks of it, but u manage to make a good finish. I know you already told me this but what changes would you make on your deck right now.
and how important path to exile on the deck? is the extra determinal to our game plan? is exile effect important?
Yixlid Jailer turns off souls flashback so it won't work in this shell.
Both Anafenza and Kalitas are reasonable choices but I find that surgical's faster, more flexible against other matchups and another instant we can drop in our graveyard to get delirium. Anafenza might maybe have a slot in 60 as a 1-of instead of scooze or 4th souls. Scooze is generally underwhelming since we're likely to miss land drops but it sometimes helps a lot with lifegain against burn etc.
Hollow One's not really an unfavored matchup or a matchup we specificially need slots in the sideboard against. G1 Burning Inquiry ends up giving us delirium and we can just keep casting huge goyfs and pumped Flayers afterwards. Their busted starts with T1 multiple Hollow Ones are surely oppressing but those are rare and we can grind better and traverse for Scooze while having access to paths.
I find revoker super flimsy and narrow tbh. Not having access to stony silence is not ideal
good catch on Jailer.
my only issue on surgical is its not good on grindy matchups. and the dream combo of surgical the tron lands doesn't happen often. I'd rather play cards that are good on its own that needing another card to make it good.
affinity is good matchup on this build but stony silence is so good on KCI, Ad Neaseum, and Tron matchups. like some1 said, in a Kiki Chord/toolbox deck, revoker is a staple sideboard. we can adapt the theory. its worth a try. Im a firm believer of playtesting it before making judgements on it.
how about cast out? seems good. I know willy edel considered it once, because pulse is too expensive on this build. it can activate delirium and can cycle on a pinch.
In a Meta with Dredge and Hollow One and KCI, i would expect Anafenza, the Foremost to be better than Kalitas.
It's a turn earlier and also exiles discarded and dredged creatures. It's a good beatstick and adds some counters to Trample dudes, as opposed to getting tokens.
its really good in those matchups and come down early. I'd also leave it main because its an ok clock against big mana decks if you got nothing else to bring in.
stony silence is really what we are missing. what do you think of phyrexian revoker as a suedo card to block artifact activation. it also acts like pulse to pw.
Bojuka Bog feels better than Cleric imo. You don't need to invest mana into it and you end up with an extra land.
To end up with delirium on T2, you need to cast Ballista X=0 which is card disadvantage or cast for X=1 and you can't play a fatty on T2 that way. So I think Bauble is better since you can cast smth like Grim Flayer on T2 and still have delirium on T3 before attacking with Grim Flayer.
I think its not a straight replacement we are looking for baubles/ballista but a silver bullet target/1-off. definitely not a dead card and can turn into a removal and finisher when you need it to be.
and bojuka bog is better definitely and I think Yixlid Jailer would be second.
I will give Cast Down a try. It seems good, at least on the paper, as it hits most stuff. I really like this suggestion.
Go for the Throat and Dismember are possible options too but I don't like them. Go for the Throat seems a bit too narrow for my tastes because it doesn't kill Hollow One and is useless against Affinity. Dismember hits whatever we want but life loss can be an issue because Modern is fast format and you don't want to pay life to kill a creatures, especially if you play against more aggressive deck.
we can play murderous cut but i think its nonbo with delirium build.
we can use dismember too or go for the throat. but i think cast down will be better.
also if we cut path, we can cut plains too as well and replace it with a swamp or a utility land.
checked out most played creatures in modern right now, and cast down is amazingly hits everything. except for thalia and clique as flyingdelver said. you dont want to remove thalia anyhow so they have more poor draws.
Shriekmaw's actually in the SB because of hollow one etc. Otherwise it'd be in the 60. It's a 2 mana removal spell that helps get delirium and that doesn't get taxed by Thalia pretty much. It's also an evasive beater + removal late game.
don't get this. hollow one has mostly black creatures and artifact. 2 creatures that are red blocks by lingering souls and goyf. shriekmaw doesn't hit black or artifact.
Traverse shell has enough hard removal postboard to be a more controllish deck against the most aggressive decks pretty much when we side in Damnation, Maelstrom Pulse, Golgari Charm and Shriekmaw on top of Path/Push/Abrupt Decay/LoTV/LtLH in main pretty much so Thalia isn't really necessary.
Reclamation Sage is an all star tbh, no reason to cut it. Can even run 2 if your meta has too much gy hate in the form of Relic/Leyline/RiP. Similiarly, can also run 2x Kataki if you have too many artifact decks in your meta.
Magus of the Tabernacle also just doesn't do it since we run Lingering Souls.
Kalitas, Sigarda, Kambal, 2nd Rec Sage, 2nd Kataki are all good choices for the flex spot in the board pretty much.
I also highly suggest Golgari Charm instead of 2nd Damnation, it's pretty flexible and efficient.
fair assessment on thalia. but shriekmaw, seems too narrow for a hallowed one meta. should we play big game hunter instead?
and again how come they two deck list in mtggoldfish has only 14 sideboard. I think I can shed a light on how good the sideboard is. it could be a silver bullet too.
Can't really run Thalia, we have too many non-creature spells that double as creatures in Traverse/Lingering Souls and 4 planeswalkers.
Opp seeing Aven Mindcensor coming is annoying, that's why I opt to not play it too.
Kambal is an option here, hits many decks and it's a clock.
I cut the 2nd Damnation too since it's clunky and slow. Golgari Charm instead is doing a lot of work.
Is Teeg really narrow tho? It comes in against a lot of decks and shuts of a lot of payoff spells. It's effective against creature decks that run CoCo, shutting down their tutor/catch-up mechanics in CoCo and Chord since they don't run many removal spells. Against control decks, it shuts off their sweepers/cryptics/planeswalkers. Shuts off PiF/Empty/Gifts in Storm. Shuts off Ad Nauseam. Shuts off Planeswalkers/All is Dust in Tron. Shuts of Scapeshift/Throught the Breach/BTL. I find it flexible enough tbh.
Against KCI, Kambal and Eidolon of Rhetoric are better and Teeg kinda acts like an alternate. KCI can remove almost all hate cards in Spellbomb/EE/Naturalize anyway. Best hate card against it is Stony Silence and we can't run that because of Baubles. It's a pretty resilient combo deck so best bet here is a clock backed up by some disruption or discard into surgical a combo piece backed up by a clock hoping to dodge Wurmcoil into Wurmcoil.
Amulet Titan is a small part of the meta and honestly doesn't deserve dedicated SB slots in this meta. You push their enablers, make them discard any and all amulets and can also path their titan after they've finished tutoring lands and if they don't have Amulet in play and didn't setup for another titan, you can just path it and they'll lose a lot of steam.
I mean thalia heretic cathar. could be good on aggressive decks or big mana decks. and how about Manglehorn on place of reclamation sage? it doesn't hit enchantment but its a hard counter.
if gaddock teeg is playable then I think aven mindcensor has a place too. for people have experience with it, how often it gets removed?
the problem with aven mindcensor in my mind is, that you optimally want to flash it in in response to a fetch being on the stack or a Chord/Scapeshift or whatever. With Traverse, you have to tutor it up at sorcery speed first, at which point the opponent knows about Mindcensor already and won't play into it.
i can see the scenario happening often. my problem with teeg is its only non-creature. what does it do to amulet titan? (this is just a wonder not a putoff coz i just played it awhile ago).
Mardu was the most played deck in GP Sao Paulo in Day 1 and Day 2. It's a fan favorite since it's one of the best midrange decks. It also took down GP Sao Paulo and there's an argument to be made that it will be hated out slightly.
@guitar60x
Manamorphose and Grisly Salvage play similiar roles. Thing is you end up with Delirium and at least one or more threats more consistently with Grisly Salvage and you end up with more mana and delirium early with manamorphose. I honestly like Grisly Salvage is better since it also mills lingering souls to the graveyard and it can also help with making 3rd or 4th land drop. You can EoT Grisly Salvage too so it helps giving you an option to hold mana/removal up on T2(preferably on the draw) and if your opponent doesn't play into your removal, it's another tutor for lands/threats. It's also way better lategame.
Go for the Throat is unplayable in a meta with Hollow Ones, Affinity, Hardened Scales and KCI tbh. It's low on the list for traverse shell since you can just play Shriekmaw for more consistent delirium instead if you need more removal. Path is a really big advantage for this deck since it's an universal answer and can help you tutor lands when you need to and it's mana efficient. It can't really be replaced with cast down. You also probably value Manamorphose higher since you have trouble putting instants in your graveyard because you cut paths so you're low on T1 castable instants and end up valuing manamorphose higher than Grisly Salvage.
It's okay to go up to 20 lands tbh since we want to make 4 land drops. Plains is probably the worst land in the deck and it's open to discussion but it's mostly there as a tutor target for traverse and a hedge against blood moon. Similiarly, Bojuka Bog gives us an option to go up to 20 lands on the play post board. On the draw, it's not really necessary.
I agree in frank karstens math but he also said that cantrips, mana dorks and scry cards are can be considered as mana sources too.
that's why grixis shadow was mana flooding too when they first built it even tho its 18 lands. because it has lots of cantrips. I think we can also imitate the same build.
magus of the tabernacle seems good to replace the 2nd damnation. It can be tutored in a pinch.
if gaddock teeg is playable then I think aven mindcensor has a place too. for people have experience with it, how often it gets removed?
tocatli honer guard
orzhov pontiff
since i dont have gaddock teeg yet. i've been playing with phyrexian revoker and its good against tron, uw control, afinity, kci and adneseum. i believe teeg is still better but with the combination of manglehorn, reclamation sage, and pyrexian revoker, matchups gets really better. bad against jeskai tho.
also playing 4 basics now and 1 fast land. tried twilight mire and its a bad idea. u got some hands when u have colorless and cant cast spells. having 9 fetches is good tho.
and do we have sideboard guide for kci? just wanted to compare how I sideboard from jund to abzan.
the matchups you faced weren't very easy by the looks of it, but u manage to make a good finish. I know you already told me this but what changes would you make on your deck right now.
and how important path to exile on the deck? is the extra determinal to our game plan? is exile effect important?
edit: its actually nihil spellbomb. just talked to him right now.
good catch on Jailer.
my only issue on surgical is its not good on grindy matchups. and the dream combo of surgical the tron lands doesn't happen often. I'd rather play cards that are good on its own that needing another card to make it good.
affinity is good matchup on this build but stony silence is so good on KCI, Ad Neaseum, and Tron matchups. like some1 said, in a Kiki Chord/toolbox deck, revoker is a staple sideboard. we can adapt the theory. its worth a try. Im a firm believer of playtesting it before making judgements on it.
how about cast out? seems good. I know willy edel considered it once, because pulse is too expensive on this build. it can activate delirium and can cycle on a pinch.
its really good in those matchups and come down early. I'd also leave it main because its an ok clock against big mana decks if you got nothing else to bring in.
stony silence is really what we are missing. what do you think of phyrexian revoker as a suedo card to block artifact activation. it also acts like pulse to pw.
I think its not a straight replacement we are looking for baubles/ballista but a silver bullet target/1-off. definitely not a dead card and can turn into a removal and finisher when you need it to be.
and bojuka bog is better definitely and I think Yixlid Jailer would be second.
we can play murderous cut but i think its nonbo with delirium build.
also if we cut path, we can cut plains too as well and replace it with a swamp or a utility land.
checked out most played creatures in modern right now, and cast down is amazingly hits everything. except for thalia and clique as flyingdelver said. you dont want to remove thalia anyhow so they have more poor draws.
don't get this. hollow one has mostly black creatures and artifact. 2 creatures that are red blocks by lingering souls and goyf. shriekmaw doesn't hit black or artifact.
fair assessment on thalia. but shriekmaw, seems too narrow for a hallowed one meta. should we play big game hunter instead?
back in the day magus of the tabernacle is a silver bullet for boardwipe. if running souls is concerned, we can sacrifice magus of the tabernacle when we clear the board.
and again how come they two deck list in mtggoldfish has only 14 sideboard. I think I can shed a light on how good the sideboard is. it could be a silver bullet too.
I mean thalia heretic cathar. could be good on aggressive decks or big mana decks. and how about Manglehorn on place of reclamation sage? it doesn't hit enchantment but its a hard counter.
i can see the scenario happening often. my problem with teeg is its only non-creature. what does it do to amulet titan? (this is just a wonder not a putoff coz i just played it awhile ago).
thalia could be a good sideboard too.
I agree in frank karstens math but he also said that cantrips, mana dorks and scry cards are can be considered as mana sources too.
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/
that's why grixis shadow was mana flooding too when they first built it even tho its 18 lands. because it has lots of cantrips. I think we can also imitate the same build.
magus of the tabernacle seems good to replace the 2nd damnation. It can be tutored in a pinch.
if gaddock teeg is playable then I think aven mindcensor has a place too. for people have experience with it, how often it gets removed?