Looking at Caleb Scherer's list here, it hits Serum Visions and Manamorphose. Remand, Repeal and Opt are likely to be instant speed. Dies to grapeshot too.
Kataki's good against affinity, lantern and other artifact decks like Blue Steel, Thopter-sword. It also might do some work if KCI has Sai, Master Thopterist in 60 too, that's been showing up lately.
you're right but even tho its instant speed. they can't chain it so it still hits it right?
and lantern and afinity doesnt get played much now. hollowone and uw and bridgevine gets played alot tho. even dredge.
Spirit of Labyrinth is pretty flimsy tbh, I don't expect it to be good against Tron nevermind anything really. It only really shuts off eggs on their turn but they'll still be able to crack them on your turn and it won't shut off their cantrips like Ancient Stirrings and Sylvan Scrying. Only relevant thing that might shutt off, off the top of my head, probably are Jace, Teferi, Serum Visions and Faithless Looting but it's also a nonbo with Baubles. Like it won't even shut off bob even. I don't think modern really has good cantrips that card is worth playing. That card also won't make the Tron matchup any better and I feel the deck's already favoured against Mardu tbh.
fair point. just thought it might replace kataki because it doesn't hit alot of decks right now. spirit of labyrinth also hits kci decks too. and its flimziness only applies on lightning bolt decks. i mean it also as flimzy as kataki. i just find its a more proactive way to shut down a deck. hits hollow one hard and vengevine. won today with it blocking ancestral vision. and hits storm and dredge too but ofcouse they have removal for it.
Looks nice. I also replaced the bog with the cleric for good.
Am testing the deck with 2 forests and 2 swamp instead of 1 plains (I find it is actually better against blood moon that way since your game plan involves having a forest and a swamp and you can go from there). I never like drawing a plains since your manabase at curve 4 should be able to produce GGBBW and we already have ghost quarter. Need more testing anyway.
I like the choke (played up to 2 sb at one point) but ill stick with thrun for now since he is tutorable
Liliana the last hope is looking quite good in this meta for me. Trying one extra on the sb.
How has the surgical been working for you? Haven't had much use for it lately, nihil spellbomb is working better against most decks for me.
There is also the option of cutting an eidolon and a choke for more gaddocks, I think he really is our best card in the UW control and some other matchups.
Eidolon is better at some matchups and is useful at places where gaddock isen't though (living end for example, which is a nightmare matchup)
Golgari charm is indeed a house, best change from my GP list in my opinion.
Cheers
what do u guys think of spirit of the labyrinth? it shuts down cantrips from tron, uw control, and mardu, and hollow one. it blocks mishra's bauble but u can set it up so you draw next turn.
I would definately not go below 4 baubles, the card is just exactly what the deck needs
I endend up cutting Brutality for the 20th land, haven't missed it so far and I rather have 3 pushes in.
Anafenza has been underperforming for me actually, gonna test something else in that slot (thinking of Thalia, heretic cathar, just as a general card that I like, but maybe its not a good fit)
The point of Thrun for me has never been the grindy games, that's just an upside. He's there against control and we don't have much else against that, not fond of cutting him.
I do however wish there was an extra card for grindy matchups somewhere, Sigarda is great when it lands. Gonti is also good (I used to run him when I played BG rock to help with eldra tron matchups).
Another card that is interesting is Glissa, the traitor. Deathtouch + first strike completely halts attacks, and with 4 baubles and a lot of removals you'll get a draw or 2 out of her. Haven't resorted to her yet due to 2 factors; One is that our creatures matchup isen't bad as it is. The other is that the double green cost is really troublesome, that's actually the main difficulty for me.
Some other random cards to consider: Doran, the siege tower (5/5 and pumps goyf, in place of anafenza for example). Raven's crime (can be milled and will be good against control, but we do not run many lands). Phyrexian revoker (lots of uses). Knight of the reliquary (big creature with good ability, but grave reliant).
Gonna test the cleric as well
Cheers
great insight as usual. thank you.
ive been testing eternal witness as a 1off in the sideboard instead of the 4th lingering souls in the sideboard. I had games that lost due to not able to traverse for silver bullet because we already used them.
how's phyrexian revoker and knight of reliquary working for you? thalia heretic cathar seems good in aggressive and big mana decks. it might fit but its too slow for big mana decks.
I thought 19 lands was good. 20 lands I feel like im flooding out more often.
i went 3-1 yesterday at fnm event. played with elves, bant spirits, humans and lost to tron. just make a mistake that cozt me the game. kept a traverse on top hoping to deliruim after grim flayer attacks next turn and stone rain him,instead of having deliruim now. calculated it afterthought, it would be a faster clock.
but the deck is awesome, it feels you have game with any deck.
@guitar90x
Don't cut that many lands imo, cantrips aren't lands. You want to make your land drops and play your spells.
Like even if you get delirium, traversing for a creature and casting it is still at least 3 mana. Nevermind that you want to get to 5 mana to traverse into something impactful like Rhino to cast it in the same turn. Similiarly, Treetop also requires mana for activation or you need 4 mana to drop double 2 cmc creatures. Like I've been really happy with Scooze since I went up to 20 lands because I always end up having a good amount of mana to activate it frequently. Like goyf is a fine clock if your opponent can't produce chump blockers but if they can, it really doesn't do much.
Traversing for a land is also a waste of resources. Sure, it'll get you there but it's not a play you want to be making on T1 or T2. Best openers this deck are discard > threat or discard into more discard most of the time. Similiarly, manamorphose has huge downsides. Like Thalia is already a huge problem with bauble and combined with manamorphose, your deck will slow down to a crawl trying to get to your redraws if you can't produce a removal spell.
In the end, you're giving up consistency for a slightly more explosive start and it's really not worth it.
I feel the same about the deck. I would also love to go up to 20 lands, but am really not sure what to cut, I am really keen on every copy of removal spells in the deck. I feel I need them. Need to figure it out a little bit more.
the deck is very consistent with 11 cantrips and 17 lands. i dont havr magic online but if i do i rrally think it can 5-0. i dont have problem reaching 4 lands. its only a few marginal hands u get 1 lander and have to traverse. but most of the time you have flooded hands and still keepable. drop treetop becuase we need atleast 14 sources just on opening hand. after that, cantrips can find what u need.
ill have a list shortly and if anyone what to try it online, that would be great.
just wanted to report that I've got great results on manamorphose. it feels like grisly salvage and activates delirium in turn 2 with flayer on board. fights blood moon even if you're locked already. played 17 lands and feels smooth, without manlands or ghost quarter. move most the the utility lands in sb. and played 4 traverse because you need it on 17 lands. you just need 1 lander hands with traverse or 2 Mishra's bauble and you're set. numbers in sb im not fixed yet but the speed is better. will post when I have a dominant list. playing on 3 copies of manamorphose because you cant play hands with 1 lander and 1 manamorphose.
I've changed to Abzan too, just to try it as something different as opposed to Sultai. I had all the pieces laying around so why not.
Got stuped pretty hard with it by dredge though.
My friend resleaved it with the new Stitcher's Supplier. Unfortunately Bojuka Bog did nothing and Scavenging Ooze was hard to use and gain immediate value of off before it got blasted by Conflagrate
Does anyone has some playtips for this matchup? I've boarded out all discard spells in favour of threats and wipes.
I allready play Anafenza, The foremost main which is a house against dredge but i didn't manage to get to it in time.
im not an expert on this but here's my tips on this.
- mull to hate cards
- most of the time surgical on the etb trigger
- exile conflag if you can first unless you're dying
- exile dedger if they only have 1
- stabilize with souls if you can.
But Im having too much of a good time with 2 swamps to go back to the old ways I think.
Ill just have to live dangerously, either with 1 marsh or 0 plains, if it wasn't for blood moon I would for sure cut the plains, but it might be best to keep it in.
i suggested last time to use manamorphose and in my testing, you'll mulligan alot because of low land count. even tho its zero mana cantrip, u cant keep 1 land hands that has only manamorphose, unlike having baubble or traverse. i can see going 3 copies to fight blood moon but threat density decreases.
I feel great on the deck right now. these are changes I made.
-2nd damnation
+2nd maelstrom pulse (good against tron, kci, humans and lots of deck)
-4th lingering souls
+anafenza the foremost (great against hollow one, kci, dedge and decent clock against most decks)
move liliana last hope to sideboard for shiekmaw. i find game 1, i needed to tutor a removal to win the game or stabilize.
deck feels great. 19 lands is great for me, i do find plains or ghost quarter screws me but now i know to mulligan better. I dont keep hands that doesn't have a potential 2nd land or if i can't cast spells because of wrong color. I can see droping path to exile and go BG splash souls. replacing path for 1 pulse and 1 cast down.
right now i feel like the deck plays like a death shadow deck.
tried manamorphose and i find that grisly salvage is better. the grisly salvage i believe is the best tech that came to this deck. save me alot of games and give delirium faster when needed. also won me alot of combat tricks being instant, growing goyf to make people block unfavourably.
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you're right but even tho its instant speed. they can't chain it so it still hits it right?
and lantern and afinity doesnt get played much now. hollowone and uw and bridgevine gets played alot tho. even dredge.
fair point. just thought it might replace kataki because it doesn't hit alot of decks right now. spirit of labyrinth also hits kci decks too. and its flimziness only applies on lightning bolt decks. i mean it also as flimzy as kataki. i just find its a more proactive way to shut down a deck. hits hollow one hard and vengevine. won today with it blocking ancestral vision. and hits storm and dredge too but ofcouse they have removal for it.
what do u guys think of spirit of the labyrinth? it shuts down cantrips from tron, uw control, and mardu, and hollow one. it blocks mishra's bauble but u can set it up so you draw next turn.
great insight as usual. thank you.
ive been testing eternal witness as a 1off in the sideboard instead of the 4th lingering souls in the sideboard. I had games that lost due to not able to traverse for silver bullet because we already used them.
how's phyrexian revoker and knight of reliquary working for you? thalia heretic cathar seems good in aggressive and big mana decks. it might fit but its too slow for big mana decks.
I thought 19 lands was good. 20 lands I feel like im flooding out more often.
sometimes you get free wins too when u draw all goyfs and flayers.
but the deck is awesome, it feels you have game with any deck.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2018-07-27
the deck is very consistent with 11 cantrips and 17 lands. i dont havr magic online but if i do i rrally think it can 5-0. i dont have problem reaching 4 lands. its only a few marginal hands u get 1 lander and have to traverse. but most of the time you have flooded hands and still keepable. drop treetop becuase we need atleast 14 sources just on opening hand. after that, cantrips can find what u need.
ill have a list shortly and if anyone what to try it online, that would be great.
im not an expert on this but here's my tips on this.
- mull to hate cards
- most of the time surgical on the etb trigger
- exile conflag if you can first unless you're dying
- exile dedger if they only have 1
- stabilize with souls if you can.
i suggested last time to use manamorphose and in my testing, you'll mulligan alot because of low land count. even tho its zero mana cantrip, u cant keep 1 land hands that has only manamorphose, unlike having baubble or traverse. i can see going 3 copies to fight blood moon but threat density decreases.
-2nd damnation
+2nd maelstrom pulse (good against tron, kci, humans and lots of deck)
-4th lingering souls
+anafenza the foremost (great against hollow one, kci, dedge and decent clock against most decks)
move liliana last hope to sideboard for shiekmaw. i find game 1, i needed to tutor a removal to win the game or stabilize.
deck feels great. 19 lands is great for me, i do find plains or ghost quarter screws me but now i know to mulligan better. I dont keep hands that doesn't have a potential 2nd land or if i can't cast spells because of wrong color. I can see droping path to exile and go BG splash souls. replacing path for 1 pulse and 1 cast down.
right now i feel like the deck plays like a death shadow deck.
tried manamorphose and i find that grisly salvage is better. the grisly salvage i believe is the best tech that came to this deck. save me alot of games and give delirium faster when needed. also won me alot of combat tricks being instant, growing goyf to make people block unfavourably.