Dude I've been on this contest for a few months now and I can tell you I have no idea when my designs are going to be a hit. I can only tell which ones probably won't. Then again you see a lot of funky stuff getting votes, we are all multifaceted people voting for different reasons from week to week. I really like it as prompt though to get my gears running. So much inspiration to be had too!
Major:
Uh oh! I guess our ideas are running too close!
If there is any doubt if I'm being original, I made sure to search the contest board for instances of "thawing" because I was uncertain if I'd entered it already. Sure enough I have posted this one to the create a booster game months back!
Honest cuber's perspective:
His card seems like a better baby jace in the way I'd be looking at it where as my card just seems like the worlds slowest concentrate.
Rush Classical:
I love your review series! I know it must be a pain but let me tell you, it's appreciated!
A) In many cubes I find Golgari can be really strong in unfair recursion sorta decks or ramp/reanimator decks but those are the obvious ones.
I find it's pretty easy to make a ramp deck with more than adequate removal and powerplays if you are able to scoop up the few good black cards.
My favourite GB archetype is probably what a lot of you modern players might be experienced with VS jund. In many powered cubes or power-max style unpowered cubes, cards like thoughtseize and naturalize are amazing plays. Removing key artifact mana or stripping the unfair cards from people's hand go a long way in power max where a deck is built around ensuring the success of an unfair play or two. I've always found black and green mashed together could feel very much like blue and white put together but a little more aggressive. You have heavy disruption, the ability to deal with any type of permanant, strong threats, sweepers and should have access to pretty reasonable card engines and draw fixing. But that really depends on how you build your cube!
B) I made my dig mechanic for a Collaborative Create-A-Booster game on these boards but I got the idea from GumOnShoe. The Set ended up having threshold and recover in it too but no flashback! It looked super interesting.
I think graveyards are great resources in the right format and it's up to block designers and tournament organizers to meet half way on that. I think bannings are a great tool so that you don't have to hurt one environment because it doesn't get along in fair ways with some spotty stuff in the past. In other words: I refuse to design around the mess that became of dredge and such degenerate nonsense.
I think there are unfair things that should be allowed if you put the work into them (like really work intensive reanimation strategies like mulch into fatty and rites) or say tooth and nail decks sorta deserved their big dumb play because they made it happen, but I don't really believe that we should necessarily have to live in a world where enabler cards are just too good because the thing they enable is nuts, I believe that graveyard strategies don't deserve cards that just stop them all together, but a graveyard shouldn't be a difficult thing to disrupt, or something you should have to go far out of your way to do in a set built around that.
And of course in a set that isn't built around making use of your graveyard, you probably wont have very much to do with your poor milled cards. hmmm.
Anyway i think my current version of dig will look like this, though I'm really not sure where I will put it. The sets I'm enjoying thinking about are more about colour matters and hybrid and giving creatures and lands usefulness in zones other than play. Dig X(To dig, reveal the top X cards of your library, you may put one back on top of your library and the rest into your graveyard.)
I don't think dig will be a big number on most cards.
I'm all ears if you wana talk more cube or weird set stuff any time!
Mindsculptor:
Well maybe I can be a little more illuminating!
It's random, because in a format without fetch lands, this is really just not a rampant growth, you are taking what you are getting. If we shortened this down to 3-4 cards you might just not get anything on a turn 2 play (in non-eternal formats).
This card would also feel pretty random in the same sort of way thoughtscour or say mulch does. I'm sure you know what I mean.
The last issue here is that it really needs to have a really finely honed deck to get the most out of a card like this. Most decks don't like to rely on crossing their fingers with the top of their library, that's why top and brainstorming decks with heavy shuffle effects are so popular and people are so excited about getting scry back. This card is a straight -1 card in hand for 2 mana if you don't hit. Costing 2 and having an ability that is not worth playing if you couldn't cast it on turn 2 means you have only your first turn or so to be setting up something interesting with this card. Fetchlands or other sac lands or cycling effects can help, and so can cards like careful study, but in a format without these things, you are going to be feeling really like you are at the whim of the top of your deck and that you are going to have trouble getting the most out of this card. Now later in the game this might get more interesting with stuff like the odessy block threshold lands and things like wasteland or whatever, but these are questions for the people who design tournament formats, and not the sort of things that are your primary concern when you are thinking about how your 2cc acceleration spell will work on turn 2.
Anyway it's just waaaay less reliable and requires more thinking around, that's why it feels more random. I hope that made some sense!
I think I might switch "look at" to "reveal" in the dig mechanic. I really like the subtle influence revealing has on a game.
RE dumping it all into the grave:
Just not the style of the mechanic man. the idea of dig was to give more graveyard interaction, but also more influence on card selection to the cards in a custom block. I believe it also had applications where some cards could be played from your library if you were looking at them. I'm not sure I like every colour working equally well in the grave as every other, but I think it's a fine idea if it's part of the theme and mechanic of a block and I for one am always excited to see more resources getting exploited to make shallow colours deeper and to see more non-blue colours having more control over their draws.
MajorAXE:
Was it the "kitten"? I'm sorry, I don't mean anything by it!
Hahah here's an exchange on the cube forum that sorta gets into that, I'm really just not very good with the atmosphere on forums so I get a little overly folksy with people. I think if you try to read it for cuteness and not condescension you might find a different tone all together (though essentially the same message)
Hahhaha thanks! I kinda find the atmosphere in forums like this (or with magic players in general) gets a little bit edgy and brusk, so I like to get a little overly familiar and air-headish as my own way of compensating. I remember when wtwlf123 first remarked on my use of the word "totes" it put a big smile on my face.
This is an interesting idea. I do prefer "draw a card" as the cantrip effect that each color has access to, but this is certainly worth thinking about.
Both creating tokens and returning creatures to hand seem too powerful. I suggest:
white - you gain 2 life
blue - draw a card
black - an opponent loses 1 life
red - add R to your mana pool
green - put a +1/+1 counter on a creature you control
Sorry kitten, I think you may have missed the point, the idea in these situations is to have a powerful effect. These bonuses you and aftermarket are dreaming up are cute to tack on but if you think that any of the other ones in that list you've dreamt up are anywhere near worth that card you have blue drawing you may want to re-evaluate.
I'm actually not at all against giving more colours access to cantriping more consistently. My card was an exploration of the idea that black could be getting similar value in a more niche and finnicky way by raising dead (raise dead is like the worst tutor ever and takes work to even make use of). I like the idea of alternatives to drawing for other colours in generating advantage but what's in the forefront of that to me is A) Wanting other colours to have access to more of the internal consistency and enablers blue has so enjoyed during its stay as the best colour in magic B) The additional benefit should have a certain amount of breadth or depth to it, so it remains relevant in a number of situations and the card has some universal appeal.
So yeah I'm not really talking about replacing cantrips in non blue. I wish more colours could be a little more blue-like. Like how even the aggro decks in legacy are super deep and interesting to play with all their sifter spells and shuffle effects letting them interact with a part of the game most decks (non blue)
in most formats just don't get to touch.
Your concepts for little bonuses like 1 life loss is cute, but it should be more or less free. Aftermarket's idea of token generation or other things that seem like less guaranteed card generation sounds interesting in that it creates a lot of neat pressure on the deck builder to make that partial card count.
Tacking 2 life onto white spells to replace scry or drawing is absolutely not what I'm interested in. I think you aren't at all working the angles I'm interested in unless you have also got a lot of ancient cravings or something in your design space.
Rush Traditional:
Oh honey you should have read the addendum I attached to that card! It's supposed to be pushed! The 2B 2for1 tempo sink cards never see any play except for maybe this new one coming up because seeing 4 cards sounds really good and maybe stupor but this card is like quite a bit worse than stupor.
Lets not push cards into the realm of unplayable simply on the whim of precedence! Think of this card as a worse nights whisper that thankfully didn't tax you any life. I feel like stapling raise dead to other black cards at competitive costs would be a great way to give black some of its oomf and character back without breaking anyone's back. I mean come on, replaying a creature is an effort of its own. If you want raise dead to be good you might as well tack on the cost of the other card you'll have to replay for it.
Ask the Fates :1mana::symu::symu:
Instant (U)
Scry 3, then draw a card for each card put on the bottom of your library this way. Anything as old as time could use a little help now and then.
Wow that is really close, I guess great minds think a like.
I was more going for a top down black removal card about nightmares attacking family bloodlines for my old Dreamshift Set.
Anyway enjoy todays phyrexian card that would make a lovely EDH card.
Yeah it's a great card if I can say so myself. Black could really use a boost when comparing it's removal to white and red's. The new planeswalker murder is a nice boost I guess.
I'm kinda sad no one likes my cutie planeswalker, that guy has been boping around in my head for a while.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Uh oh! I guess our ideas are running too close!
If there is any doubt if I'm being original, I made sure to search the contest board for instances of "thawing" because I was uncertain if I'd entered it already. Sure enough I have posted this one to the create a booster game months back!
Honest cuber's perspective:
His card seems like a better baby jace in the way I'd be looking at it where as my card just seems like the worlds slowest concentrate.
Rush Classical:
I love your review series! I know it must be a pain but let me tell you, it's appreciated!
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
I find it's pretty easy to make a ramp deck with more than adequate removal and powerplays if you are able to scoop up the few good black cards.
My favourite GB archetype is probably what a lot of you modern players might be experienced with VS jund. In many powered cubes or power-max style unpowered cubes, cards like thoughtseize and naturalize are amazing plays. Removing key artifact mana or stripping the unfair cards from people's hand go a long way in power max where a deck is built around ensuring the success of an unfair play or two. I've always found black and green mashed together could feel very much like blue and white put together but a little more aggressive. You have heavy disruption, the ability to deal with any type of permanant, strong threats, sweepers and should have access to pretty reasonable card engines and draw fixing. But that really depends on how you build your cube!
B) I made my dig mechanic for a Collaborative Create-A-Booster game on these boards but I got the idea from GumOnShoe. The Set ended up having threshold and recover in it too but no flashback! It looked super interesting.
I think graveyards are great resources in the right format and it's up to block designers and tournament organizers to meet half way on that. I think bannings are a great tool so that you don't have to hurt one environment because it doesn't get along in fair ways with some spotty stuff in the past. In other words: I refuse to design around the mess that became of dredge and such degenerate nonsense.
I think there are unfair things that should be allowed if you put the work into them (like really work intensive reanimation strategies like mulch into fatty and rites) or say tooth and nail decks sorta deserved their big dumb play because they made it happen, but I don't really believe that we should necessarily have to live in a world where enabler cards are just too good because the thing they enable is nuts, I believe that graveyard strategies don't deserve cards that just stop them all together, but a graveyard shouldn't be a difficult thing to disrupt, or something you should have to go far out of your way to do in a set built around that.
And of course in a set that isn't built around making use of your graveyard, you probably wont have very much to do with your poor milled cards. hmmm.
Anyway i think my current version of dig will look like this, though I'm really not sure where I will put it. The sets I'm enjoying thinking about are more about colour matters and hybrid and giving creatures and lands usefulness in zones other than play.
Dig X (To dig, reveal the top X cards of your library, you may put one back on top of your library and the rest into your graveyard.)
I don't think dig will be a big number on most cards.
I'm all ears if you wana talk more cube or weird set stuff any time!
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Well maybe I can be a little more illuminating!
It's random, because in a format without fetch lands, this is really just not a rampant growth, you are taking what you are getting. If we shortened this down to 3-4 cards you might just not get anything on a turn 2 play (in non-eternal formats).
This card would also feel pretty random in the same sort of way thoughtscour or say mulch does. I'm sure you know what I mean.
The last issue here is that it really needs to have a really finely honed deck to get the most out of a card like this. Most decks don't like to rely on crossing their fingers with the top of their library, that's why top and brainstorming decks with heavy shuffle effects are so popular and people are so excited about getting scry back. This card is a straight -1 card in hand for 2 mana if you don't hit. Costing 2 and having an ability that is not worth playing if you couldn't cast it on turn 2 means you have only your first turn or so to be setting up something interesting with this card. Fetchlands or other sac lands or cycling effects can help, and so can cards like careful study, but in a format without these things, you are going to be feeling really like you are at the whim of the top of your deck and that you are going to have trouble getting the most out of this card. Now later in the game this might get more interesting with stuff like the odessy block threshold lands and things like wasteland or whatever, but these are questions for the people who design tournament formats, and not the sort of things that are your primary concern when you are thinking about how your 2cc acceleration spell will work on turn 2.
Anyway it's just waaaay less reliable and requires more thinking around, that's why it feels more random. I hope that made some sense!
I think I might switch "look at" to "reveal" in the dig mechanic. I really like the subtle influence revealing has on a game.
RE dumping it all into the grave:
Just not the style of the mechanic man. the idea of dig was to give more graveyard interaction, but also more influence on card selection to the cards in a custom block. I believe it also had applications where some cards could be played from your library if you were looking at them. I'm not sure I like every colour working equally well in the grave as every other, but I think it's a fine idea if it's part of the theme and mechanic of a block and I for one am always excited to see more resources getting exploited to make shallow colours deeper and to see more non-blue colours having more control over their draws.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Was it the "kitten"? I'm sorry, I don't mean anything by it!
Hahah here's an exchange on the cube forum that sorta gets into that, I'm really just not very good with the atmosphere on forums so I get a little overly folksy with people. I think if you try to read it for cuteness and not condescension you might find a different tone all together (though essentially the same message)
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Sorry kitten, I think you may have missed the point, the idea in these situations is to have a powerful effect. These bonuses you and aftermarket are dreaming up are cute to tack on but if you think that any of the other ones in that list you've dreamt up are anywhere near worth that card you have blue drawing you may want to re-evaluate.
I'm actually not at all against giving more colours access to cantriping more consistently. My card was an exploration of the idea that black could be getting similar value in a more niche and finnicky way by raising dead (raise dead is like the worst tutor ever and takes work to even make use of). I like the idea of alternatives to drawing for other colours in generating advantage but what's in the forefront of that to me is A) Wanting other colours to have access to more of the internal consistency and enablers blue has so enjoyed during its stay as the best colour in magic B) The additional benefit should have a certain amount of breadth or depth to it, so it remains relevant in a number of situations and the card has some universal appeal.
So yeah I'm not really talking about replacing cantrips in non blue. I wish more colours could be a little more blue-like. Like how even the aggro decks in legacy are super deep and interesting to play with all their sifter spells and shuffle effects letting them interact with a part of the game most decks (non blue)
in most formats just don't get to touch.
Your concepts for little bonuses like 1 life loss is cute, but it should be more or less free. Aftermarket's idea of token generation or other things that seem like less guaranteed card generation sounds interesting in that it creates a lot of neat pressure on the deck builder to make that partial card count.
Tacking 2 life onto white spells to replace scry or drawing is absolutely not what I'm interested in. I think you aren't at all working the angles I'm interested in unless you have also got a lot of ancient cravings or something in your design space.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Oh honey you should have read the addendum I attached to that card! It's supposed to be pushed! The 2B 2for1 tempo sink cards never see any play except for maybe this new one coming up because seeing 4 cards sounds really good and maybe stupor but this card is like quite a bit worse than stupor.
Lets not push cards into the realm of unplayable simply on the whim of precedence! Think of this card as a worse nights whisper that thankfully didn't tax you any life. I feel like stapling raise dead to other black cards at competitive costs would be a great way to give black some of its oomf and character back without breaking anyone's back. I mean come on, replaying a creature is an effort of its own. If you want raise dead to be good you might as well tack on the cost of the other card you'll have to replay for it.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
Yeah it's a great card if I can say so myself. Black could really use a boost when comparing it's removal to white and red's. The new planeswalker murder is a nice boost I guess.
I'm kinda sad no one likes my cutie planeswalker, that guy has been boping around in my head for a while.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
On a related note: I always called the 4 armed gorillas in fantasy stuff gore-illas
Cube talk, design community and much much more!