This may not be the right place to ask, but I will anyway:
say I have three creatures on board, all with +1/+1 counters: Marchesa, a Trinket Mage, and a clone. Opponent wraths. Marchesa will bring them all back, but they're all separate triggered abilities and are all going on the stack at the same time, right? Which in turn means that I can arrange them so that the clone comes back last (and is thus able to copy the Trinket Mage)?
That's correct. Marchesa sets up delayed triggers for each creature that happen at the same time and you may order them however you please since they are all your triggers. You may put them onto the battlefield in whatever order you want.
Skyship Plunderer definitely does not have Proliferate. Proliferate allows you to choose any number of permanents or players with counters, Skyship Plunderer only allows you to choose target permanent or player.
The problem is really the original spoil. It was spoiled in a different language and apparently was translated incorrectly. Some sites said "target permanent or player", others (including mtgsalvation) said "any number of permanents or players" and had the exact wording of proliferate. Now that we have the english version its pretty clear it is not proliferate but that's where the confusion came from.
I know. I believe the reddit spoiler correctly had it as "target permanent or player" while mtgsalvation had it as Proliferate, which is why I chimed in here yesterday saying it may be a 2/1 Thrummingbird but it may not be and we'd have to wait for the english version. We have the english now, so I am pointing that it officially isn't a 2/1 Thrummingbird.
Perhaps because, you know, it's not even remotely Proliferate though this does seem to be a trendy sort of complaint of late.
Is that not the *exact* wording of Proliferate??
I'm a big fan of Yahenni and Metallic Mimic, will definitely be going in my deck (when built).
As for Grenzo, has anyone felt that he actually put in work for their deck? He always seemed underwhelming when I tried him.
Skyship Plunderer definitely does not have Proliferate. Proliferate allows you to choose any number of permanents or players with counters, Skyship Plunderer only allows you to choose target permanent or player.
The Ballista is an XX mana cost artifact creature that comes into play with X +1/+1 counters which it can remove to deal 1 damage. With Mike, that's remove a counter it does and comes back from Undying with a +1/+1 counter. Shoot the board.
If you've got an Infinite mana combo, you can use its activated ability of Pay 4 to put a +1/+1 counter on it to shoot everybody in the face.
Also, since it is an XX cost that makes its CMC 0 so that Trinket Mage can search for it up.
This appears to be a very silly card.
It doesn't quite work with Mikaeus unless you have a sac-outlet. Mike gives +1/+1, and the traditional Mike-Trike combo involves shooting Triskelion to deal 1 to itself and then shooting something else with the other counters. This only has 1 counter on it after undying, so it can't shoot itself and something else.
It might be a better Thrumming Bird, but I've seen other translations that say it's "target creature or player" not "any number" like Proliferate. We'll have to wait for the English version.
Is everyone else as in love with Queen Marchesa as I am? I'm not sure how she compares to the origonal. Better? worse? on par? I think the whole monarch mechanic will be a lot of fun in casual environments.
I think she'd be fun to play, but I wish she'd stayed Grixis and complemented The Black Rose.
I was looking at another forum and saw Mindclaw Shaman and thought that this card would be pretty good for marchesa any thoughts?
It's an interesting effect and reminds me of Dualcaster Mage. I'd rather have Dualcaster because I can flash it in when I want to rather than guessing someone's hand to look at. Dualcaster can also give you a copy of an X spell and Mindclaw can't.
Hanwweir, the WT was a creature with a +1/+1 counter on it when it died. So the Marchesa's ability triggers.
as it resolves, it creates a delayed triggered ability that will trigger and go onto the stack at the beginning of the end step.
When it resolves, you put back on the battlefield the two cards separately.
Except the delayed trigger only happens if the thing is still in your grave at end step. Hanweir is no longer in your grave, because you flip the cards over when you put it in grave.
Edit: According to judge chat I'm wrong and the two front faces return. However, something about that still doesn't sit right with me.
When the Meld card hits your graveyard, it ceases to be the thing it was on the battlefield, right? I'd think that if you had an Insectile Aberration die with a counter on it, it would become Delver of Secrets in your grave and thus wouldn't be returned because it wasn't Delver that died with a counter on it. I'd expect meld to behave the same way.
I don't see why Confusion in the Ranks doesn't work while Olivia does.
Couldn't the stack for Confusion be: Sac Mulldrifter -> Draw cards -> Confusion trigger from bottom to top? In this case, I'd think you could swap creatures due to Confusion (since it's clearly on the battlefield right now), draw your cards, and the last ability will fizzle since you can't sacrifice a creature you don't control.
I don't see how that stack is different from Sac Mulldrifter -> Draw cards -> Olivia trigger.
Agree with this point of view, I also don't see why Mulldrifter wouldn't be on the battlefield if you stack the trigger in the aforementioned way. (Also found this post)
In addition to that, looking at the rulings on evoke:
702.73a Evoke represents two abilities: a static ability that functions in any zone from which the card with evoke can be cast and a triggered ability that functions on the battlefield. “Evoke [cost]” means “You may cast this card by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost” and “When this permanent enters the battlefield, if its evoke cost was paid, its controller sacrifices it.” Paying a card’s evoke cost follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2f–h.
So if the exchange takes place, it also looks like the new controller still has to sac it.
I don't know for sure since I'm far from a judge myself but just curious on how these situations work out. But then again I don't think anyone runs a Confusion in the Ranks in his Marchesa deck so this might not be the right place to discuss such stuff
I stand corrected on it not being sacrificed. I didn't know that it said "controller", and donating it to another player would allow it to remember its characteristics such that it would know it was Evoked.
Depending on how the triggers get stacked (and you choose how they get stacked if they're your triggers), Confusion in the Ranks does work with Evoke if you put the Confusion on the stack above the Evoke sacrifice. Because of the rules of Evoke, they will be forced to sacrifice what you gave them and you get to steal something.
I don't see why Confusion in the Ranks doesn't work while Olivia does.
Couldn't the stack for Confusion be: Sac Mulldrifter -> Draw cards -> Confusion trigger from bottom to top? In this case, I'd think you could swap creatures due to Confusion (since it's clearly on the battlefield right now), draw your cards, and the last ability will fizzle since you can't sacrifice a creature you don't control.
I don't see how that stack is different from Sac Mulldrifter -> Draw cards -> Olivia trigger.
Matter Reshaper has been putting in some good work recently. Anyone else had success running him?
Haven't tried because you can't use the "any color" -> "colorless" trick due to the elimination of that rule from EDH, so City of Brass can't do it. I don't think that makes enough colorless sources for me especially since I don't have any of the normal filters.
That's correct. Marchesa sets up delayed triggers for each creature that happen at the same time and you may order them however you please since they are all your triggers. You may put them onto the battlefield in whatever order you want.
I know. I believe the reddit spoiler correctly had it as "target permanent or player" while mtgsalvation had it as Proliferate, which is why I chimed in here yesterday saying it may be a 2/1 Thrummingbird but it may not be and we'd have to wait for the english version. We have the english now, so I am pointing that it officially isn't a 2/1 Thrummingbird.
Skyship Plunderer definitely does not have Proliferate. Proliferate allows you to choose any number of permanents or players with counters, Skyship Plunderer only allows you to choose target permanent or player.
It doesn't quite work with Mikaeus unless you have a sac-outlet. Mike gives +1/+1, and the traditional Mike-Trike combo involves shooting Triskelion to deal 1 to itself and then shooting something else with the other counters. This only has 1 counter on it after undying, so it can't shoot itself and something else.
I think she'd be fun to play, but I wish she'd stayed Grixis and complemented The Black Rose.
It's an interesting effect and reminds me of Dualcaster Mage. I'd rather have Dualcaster because I can flash it in when I want to rather than guessing someone's hand to look at. Dualcaster can also give you a copy of an X spell and Mindclaw can't.
Except the delayed trigger only happens if the thing is still in your grave at end step. Hanweir is no longer in your grave, because you flip the cards over when you put it in grave.
Edit: According to judge chat I'm wrong and the two front faces return. However, something about that still doesn't sit right with me.
I stand corrected on it not being sacrificed. I didn't know that it said "controller", and donating it to another player would allow it to remember its characteristics such that it would know it was Evoked.
So, I did a google search: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/268637-evoke-into-confusion
Depending on how the triggers get stacked (and you choose how they get stacked if they're your triggers), Confusion in the Ranks does work with Evoke if you put the Confusion on the stack above the Evoke sacrifice. Because of the rules of Evoke, they will be forced to sacrifice what you gave them and you get to steal something.
Couldn't the stack for Confusion be: Sac Mulldrifter -> Draw cards -> Confusion trigger from bottom to top? In this case, I'd think you could swap creatures due to Confusion (since it's clearly on the battlefield right now), draw your cards, and the last ability will fizzle since you can't sacrifice a creature you don't control.
I don't see how that stack is different from Sac Mulldrifter -> Draw cards -> Olivia trigger.
So, we've got a 5 Star General in Marchesa, A 4 Star General in Mikaeus, A 3 Star General in Drana, and now a 2 Star General in Olivia.
Haven't tried because you can't use the "any color" -> "colorless" trick due to the elimination of that rule from EDH, so City of Brass can't do it. I don't think that makes enough colorless sources for me especially since I don't have any of the normal filters.