I'm not so much claiming that 4 Copter 4 Sculler is the best; I'm just playing a bunch of matches with that configuration and seeing how it goes. I pretty much cut my Pack Rats for Scullers and didn't touch anything else. After just a few matches I already want to go down to 3 Sculler. I still like all 4 Copters though because I want to play it on turn 2 every game. Same thing for the 1 drop discard: want it turn 1 every game. I really like how Sculler plays with Copter but it also plays nicely with Elspeth since she can turn it into a real attacker.
My feeling on Anguished Unmaking is that you can't realistically play more than 1 in your maindeck. However most of the time it will be worse than alternatives since you usually don't need to kill non-creature permanents. When you do need to kill, say, an Ensnaring Bridge, you won't have a good chance to draw it. So you end up with a card that is mostly bad and rarely good. If the metagame was slower and had lots of noncreatures, e.g. full of non-Eldrazi Tron decks, I could see playing a couple. But against Death's Shadow, Eldrazi Tron, Storm, Affinity, Burn, Collected Company, etc it's just too clunky.
Unfortunately Kaya Ghost Assassin is not legal in Modern. It does look pretty sweet though.
Auriok Champion is potentially a great metagame call. It is really bad against Eldrazi Tron and Affinity but great against Burn and Death's Shadow. I think I'd rather sideboard Mirran Crusader but not sure, haven't tested either one.
If you are on a budget and can't play Dark Confidant, then I would definitely go for 4 Smuggler's Copter. Both let you see extra cards each turn which goes a long way towards beating combo decks. Copter provides a much better clock as well.
Yup, good points. For the moment I am going to go all-in on Copter as an experiment. I tested Gideon of the Trials and I found it to be fine but generally unexciting. It is definitely good against Death's Shadow though. However it is worse for the singular purpose of crewing Copter so for the moment I am going to continue with Splicer. Same with Brimaz.
You are forgetting that if a creature crews Copter then it is not attacking. To maximize Copter it is much better to play creatures that get value without attacking themselves, for example Tidehollow Sculler or Blade Splicer. Not the case with Gifted Aetherborn or Seeker of the Way. Those other token cards are frankly terrible, especially when we already have Lingering Souls. Perhaps in a deck with Intangible Virtue but not without it. Start // Finish is definitely interesting but it also has CMC 6 for Dark Confidant.
Thoughtseize can't crew Smuggler's Copter. I haven't tested Seeker or Aetherborn but they are much worse than Sculler when it comes to crewing Copter. But hey I haven't tested Sculler enough yet so instead of theorizing I'm gonna play a ton of matches
If you are on the copter plan, I can recommend Blade Splicer as a very effective way to crew it. The 2 bodies also work well together with anthem effects from Sorin or Gideon. If Elspeth, Knight-Errant is your 4-drop of choice, it is hard to pass up Mirran Crusader, either in the sideboard or even 1-2 maindeck, since Shadow, Tasigur and Fatal Push is everywhere these days.
Both great points. It's a little hard to find room for more 3-drops past Lingering Souls and Liliana but those are probably the next best ones.
I'll report back once I've tested Sculler over Rat. I'm playing a build with 4 Smuggler's Copter so I'm trying to optimize turn 2 Copter draws. Playing Copter into Sculler seems sweet because the opponent is kind of screwed no matter what. They can't use their removal on Copter until you crew it so what do they do? Mostly just lose it to Sculler and then get hit by Copter, putting you at a big advantage. Even if they have Kolaghan's Command they have to use it in response to the Sculler trigger, which means you are taking another card forever. Throw an Inquisition or Thoughtseize into the mix and that sounds pretty hard to beat.
I've sworn by the Rat for a long time but now it feels clunky in most matchups. I think it was best against traditional midrange like Jund and Abzan but those are nowhere to be seen. Before Copter, there simply weren't any good two drops in BW besides Bob. Rat and Sculler are much worse. Copter and Lingering Souls are best friends so I think it's Copter time!
I really like Elspeth because she is so polarized between offense and defense. She can provide a stream of chump blockers or a stream of huge flying attackers. As a bonus her tokens can crew Copter. Don't underestimate Copter - it is the best thing you can play on turn 2 assuming you can crew it the next turn. I'm honestly considering putting 4 in my deck; it is that good.
Mana Tithe is bad for a lot of reasons. Most of all I found that BW naturally plays well at sorcery speed, especially with all the discard. The best turns to leave up Mana Tithe would be turns 1 and 3 but you already have better plays for those turns like Thoughtseize and Liliana. There isn't a matchup where the best card is Mana Tithe because the decks with expensive spells are mostly Tron decks that frequently have an extra 1 or 2 mana anyway.
I haven't played with Stockpile. I don't like the idea of Copter + Stockpile. Neither of them do anything on their own so you could have a lot of awkward draws. I think 8 creatures and 4 Lingering Souls is enough to play 2-3 Copters, especially with a few token-making planeswalkers. I play Pack Rat / Mutavault in my list and Mutavault is a nice way to crew copter. I think a Copter-centric list is the place to be
I like that list a lot more than the first one. My few changes would be:
-1 Gideon of the Trials
+1 Smuggler's Copter
-1 Plains
-1 Bloodstained Mire
+2 Concealed Courtyard
edit: I have also been considering cutting Pack Rat for Tidehollow Sculler since it seems awesome with Copter. However I will keep the Mutavaults.
If it was me I'd go
-4 Mana Tithe
-2 Anguished Unmaking
-1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
-1 Gideon of the Trials
+2 Collective Brutality
+2 Smuggler's Copter
+1 Path to Exile
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
+1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
R1 Affinity, lose die roll, 1-1-1
g1 I had t2 Smuggler's Copter which was a complete all star, since his draw was mostly fliers and Inkmoth/Blinkmoth Nexus. Game 2 he had Blood Moon and Ghirapur Aether Grid to ultimately stabilize at 1 life and come back to win. Pretty crazy. g3 we just ran out of time. In general I believe my build is a significant favorite against Affinity. Lingering Souls and spot removal is all great and Mutavault / Copter neutralize Etched Champion.
R2 Storm, lose die roll, 2-1
g1 I mulled to 5 and he got me. g2 was classic discard into Bob into Lili. g3 I had disard into Lili into Elspeth and drew Shadow of Doubt to effectively counter his Gifts Ungiven on the last possible turn.
R3 Mardu Tokens, lose die roll, 2-0
g1 I had Lingering Souls into Elspeth and he had a lot of trouble with Elspeth. g2 I had Copter into Gideon and he made a significant misplay where he had 2 Spirit tokens and forgot I could crew Copter with the Knight to block, so my Gideon survived when it shouldn't have and then ran away with the game.
R4 Abzan, win die roll, 2-0
g1 I had multiple Lingering Souls and he had none. g2 I had Liliana and Gideon of the Trials and ultimately Pack Rat to take it home.
I haven't lost a match in 3 weeks. lol
edit: List is here. Gideon of the Trials is still a big question mark. No idea if he should be in the 75.
Thank you sir. My store has a good competitive metagame full of sharp players so it's a great Training Grounds.
I think Burn is an even-to-favorable matchup for my build. Collective Brutality destroys them and Shambling Vent can you bring you back from the brink. The key is to kill them relatively quickly.
I think the worst matchup is Eldrazi Tron perhaps followed by GR Titanshift.
I went 3-0-1 at my Tuesday night Modern event this week with the same list except -1 Smallpox +1 Blessed Alliance in the sideboard.
R1 Infect, lose die roll, 2-1
My poor opponent forgot his Ad Nauseam deck at home so he had borrowed Infect. g1 he led with Inkmoth and I had t2 Bob into t3 Gideon of the Trials +1 on his Inkmoth. g2 I kept a sketchy hand with only Plains, Lingering Souls, Copter, double Inquisition and Path and I scried a Ghost Quarter to the top. I hit a black source on turn 3 but he had Spellskite into Blighted Agent and so my discard came too late and my Path wasn't enough. G3 I had the nuts with discard into Bob into Lingering Souls. I almost died to my own Bob (flipped 3 drops 4 turns in a row) but I got there.
R2 Esper Control, win die roll, 2-1
g1 was funny because we both ended up topdecking and trading hits with Shambling Vent. I continue to flood and draw discard spells while he eventually draws Lingering Souls and Gideon Ally to close it out. g2 I had t2 Pack Rat, which he answers with Pithing Needle. I eventually beat him down with Lingering Souls and Elspeth. g3 he names Elspeth with Pithing Needle on turn 1, but I never draw it. I win with Lingering Souls, Liliana, and Pack Rat.
R3 Grixis Death's Shadow, win die roll, 1-1-1
This guy played insanely slowly and caused us to draw. g1 he mulled to 5 but I had the nuts. He had a few good rips as the game went on but I took it down with Elspeth. g2 I mulled to 5 and he had triple removal spell to get in the last damage. g3 we went to time and he went Serum Visions into Thought Scour to find Kozilek's Return to kill all my Spirits and make it a draw with him at 2 life and me at 8. I still had a Liliana on the board and my top card was Elspeth so I was a huge favorite to win. Little salty cause I play pretty quickly and he tanked on everything.
R4 UGR Scapeshift, lose die roll, 2-1
g1 I mull to 5 and die to a Scapeshift. g2 I have Thoughtseize to take his Scapeshift, then on my turn 3 I Surgical Extraction it and he has drawn another one. The only wincons in his deck are 3 Obstinate Baloth and I take it down with Bob and Elspeth + Shambling Vent. Bob revealed Shadow of Doubt on top of my library this game so he knows about it. g3 he mulls to 5 and I have discard (taking Scapeshift) into Bob into Elspeth. At some point I draw Shadow of Doubt. He casts Sower of Temptation and steal my Bob but after 2 turns he is forced to block a 4/4 flying Soldier token with Sower. He rips Snapcaster on 7 land to flashback Scapeshift but I have Shadow and lethal flying attackers next turn.
Once again the deck ran great. The sideboard could definitely be better but I boarded in every card over the course of the night. Fragmentize was the weakest.
Sounds good. I would start with just 1 Zealous Persecution, unless you anticipate playing against a lot of Affinity, CoCo, and Lingering Souls. The max I'd ever play is 2.
As far as cuts for Gideon/Sorin, I agree and would cut a Castigate and an Anguished Unmaking.
edit: You could even just move those cards to board and cut Grand Abolisher completely.
so from your posted list:
-4 Wall of Omens
-1 Castigate
-1 Anguished Unmaking
+4 Thraben Inspector
+2 Gideon
sideboard:
-3 Grand Abolisher
-2 Smother
-1 Gideon
+1 Zealous Persecution
+1 Anguished Unmaking
+2 Blood Baron
+1 Go for the Throat
+1 Fatal Push
I get that but Crucible by itself or just recurring fetchlands is just not worth 3 mana in the vast majority of games. I think Ghost Quarter is a great card but I'd save Crucible for matchups like Tron. Tron decks are such a bad matchup that I'd dedicate sideboard cards specifically for them. Agree?
For example, looking at mtggoldfish Modern metagame, top decks are Affinity, UR Storm, Eldrazi Tron, Burn, Death's Shadow, Dredge, CoCo, Ad Nauseam, etc. Ghost Quarter is serviceable to good against many of these but only Eldrazi Tron stands out as one where Crucible + Ghost Quarter would be really nice. Even then Eldrazi Tron only needs 5ish mana to function, unlike traditional Tron. If you imagine Crucible as a turn 4+ play then you could just be dropping a sick planeswalker instead.
My feeling on Anguished Unmaking is that you can't realistically play more than 1 in your maindeck. However most of the time it will be worse than alternatives since you usually don't need to kill non-creature permanents. When you do need to kill, say, an Ensnaring Bridge, you won't have a good chance to draw it. So you end up with a card that is mostly bad and rarely good. If the metagame was slower and had lots of noncreatures, e.g. full of non-Eldrazi Tron decks, I could see playing a couple. But against Death's Shadow, Eldrazi Tron, Storm, Affinity, Burn, Collected Company, etc it's just too clunky.
Unfortunately Kaya Ghost Assassin is not legal in Modern. It does look pretty sweet though.
Auriok Champion is potentially a great metagame call. It is really bad against Eldrazi Tron and Affinity but great against Burn and Death's Shadow. I think I'd rather sideboard Mirran Crusader but not sure, haven't tested either one.
edit: Here is the maindeck I'm testing:
4x Mutavault
4x Shambling Vent
4x Concealed Courtyard
4x Marsh Flats
3x Godless Shrine
3x Swamp
1x Plains
1x Blade Splicer
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tidehollow Sculler
Instant
3x Fatal Push
4x Path to Exile
Sorcery
3x Thoughtseize
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4x Liliana of the Veil
Artifact
4x Smuggler's Copter
Both great points. It's a little hard to find room for more 3-drops past Lingering Souls and Liliana but those are probably the next best ones.
I'll report back once I've tested Sculler over Rat. I'm playing a build with 4 Smuggler's Copter so I'm trying to optimize turn 2 Copter draws. Playing Copter into Sculler seems sweet because the opponent is kind of screwed no matter what. They can't use their removal on Copter until you crew it so what do they do? Mostly just lose it to Sculler and then get hit by Copter, putting you at a big advantage. Even if they have Kolaghan's Command they have to use it in response to the Sculler trigger, which means you are taking another card forever. Throw an Inquisition or Thoughtseize into the mix and that sounds pretty hard to beat.
I've sworn by the Rat for a long time but now it feels clunky in most matchups. I think it was best against traditional midrange like Jund and Abzan but those are nowhere to be seen. Before Copter, there simply weren't any good two drops in BW besides Bob. Rat and Sculler are much worse. Copter and Lingering Souls are best friends so I think it's Copter time!
Mana Tithe is bad for a lot of reasons. Most of all I found that BW naturally plays well at sorcery speed, especially with all the discard. The best turns to leave up Mana Tithe would be turns 1 and 3 but you already have better plays for those turns like Thoughtseize and Liliana. There isn't a matchup where the best card is Mana Tithe because the decks with expensive spells are mostly Tron decks that frequently have an extra 1 or 2 mana anyway.
I haven't played with Stockpile. I don't like the idea of Copter + Stockpile. Neither of them do anything on their own so you could have a lot of awkward draws. I think 8 creatures and 4 Lingering Souls is enough to play 2-3 Copters, especially with a few token-making planeswalkers. I play Pack Rat / Mutavault in my list and Mutavault is a nice way to crew copter. I think a Copter-centric list is the place to be
I like that list a lot more than the first one. My few changes would be:
-1 Gideon of the Trials
+1 Smuggler's Copter
-1 Plains
-1 Bloodstained Mire
+2 Concealed Courtyard
edit: I have also been considering cutting Pack Rat for Tidehollow Sculler since it seems awesome with Copter. However I will keep the Mutavaults.
If it was me I'd go
-4 Mana Tithe
-2 Anguished Unmaking
-1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
-1 Gideon of the Trials
+2 Collective Brutality
+2 Smuggler's Copter
+1 Path to Exile
+1 Fatal Push
+1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
+1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Elspeth + Shambling Vent is too good to pass up.
-1 Fragmentize
-1 Cast Out
-1 Zealous Persecution
-1 Ghost Quarter
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Fulminator Mage
+1 Phyrexian Revoker
+1 Smallpox
R1 Affinity, lose die roll, 1-1-1
g1 I had t2 Smuggler's Copter which was a complete all star, since his draw was mostly fliers and Inkmoth/Blinkmoth Nexus. Game 2 he had Blood Moon and Ghirapur Aether Grid to ultimately stabilize at 1 life and come back to win. Pretty crazy. g3 we just ran out of time. In general I believe my build is a significant favorite against Affinity. Lingering Souls and spot removal is all great and Mutavault / Copter neutralize Etched Champion.
R2 Storm, lose die roll, 2-1
g1 I mulled to 5 and he got me. g2 was classic discard into Bob into Lili. g3 I had disard into Lili into Elspeth and drew Shadow of Doubt to effectively counter his Gifts Ungiven on the last possible turn.
R3 Mardu Tokens, lose die roll, 2-0
g1 I had Lingering Souls into Elspeth and he had a lot of trouble with Elspeth. g2 I had Copter into Gideon and he made a significant misplay where he had 2 Spirit tokens and forgot I could crew Copter with the Knight to block, so my Gideon survived when it shouldn't have and then ran away with the game.
R4 Abzan, win die roll, 2-0
g1 I had multiple Lingering Souls and he had none. g2 I had Liliana and Gideon of the Trials and ultimately Pack Rat to take it home.
I haven't lost a match in 3 weeks. lol
edit: List is here. Gideon of the Trials is still a big question mark. No idea if he should be in the 75.
I think Burn is an even-to-favorable matchup for my build. Collective Brutality destroys them and Shambling Vent can you bring you back from the brink. The key is to kill them relatively quickly.
I think the worst matchup is Eldrazi Tron perhaps followed by GR Titanshift.
R1 Infect, lose die roll, 2-1
My poor opponent forgot his Ad Nauseam deck at home so he had borrowed Infect. g1 he led with Inkmoth and I had t2 Bob into t3 Gideon of the Trials +1 on his Inkmoth. g2 I kept a sketchy hand with only Plains, Lingering Souls, Copter, double Inquisition and Path and I scried a Ghost Quarter to the top. I hit a black source on turn 3 but he had Spellskite into Blighted Agent and so my discard came too late and my Path wasn't enough. G3 I had the nuts with discard into Bob into Lingering Souls. I almost died to my own Bob (flipped 3 drops 4 turns in a row) but I got there.
R2 Esper Control, win die roll, 2-1
g1 was funny because we both ended up topdecking and trading hits with Shambling Vent. I continue to flood and draw discard spells while he eventually draws Lingering Souls and Gideon Ally to close it out. g2 I had t2 Pack Rat, which he answers with Pithing Needle. I eventually beat him down with Lingering Souls and Elspeth. g3 he names Elspeth with Pithing Needle on turn 1, but I never draw it. I win with Lingering Souls, Liliana, and Pack Rat.
R3 Grixis Death's Shadow, win die roll, 1-1-1
This guy played insanely slowly and caused us to draw. g1 he mulled to 5 but I had the nuts. He had a few good rips as the game went on but I took it down with Elspeth. g2 I mulled to 5 and he had triple removal spell to get in the last damage. g3 we went to time and he went Serum Visions into Thought Scour to find Kozilek's Return to kill all my Spirits and make it a draw with him at 2 life and me at 8. I still had a Liliana on the board and my top card was Elspeth so I was a huge favorite to win. Little salty cause I play pretty quickly and he tanked on everything.
R4 UGR Scapeshift, lose die roll, 2-1
g1 I mull to 5 and die to a Scapeshift. g2 I have Thoughtseize to take his Scapeshift, then on my turn 3 I Surgical Extraction it and he has drawn another one. The only wincons in his deck are 3 Obstinate Baloth and I take it down with Bob and Elspeth + Shambling Vent. Bob revealed Shadow of Doubt on top of my library this game so he knows about it. g3 he mulls to 5 and I have discard (taking Scapeshift) into Bob into Elspeth. At some point I draw Shadow of Doubt. He casts Sower of Temptation and steal my Bob but after 2 turns he is forced to block a 4/4 flying Soldier token with Sower. He rips Snapcaster on 7 land to flashback Scapeshift but I have Shadow and lethal flying attackers next turn.
Once again the deck ran great. The sideboard could definitely be better but I boarded in every card over the course of the night. Fragmentize was the weakest.
As far as cuts for Gideon/Sorin, I agree and would cut a Castigate and an Anguished Unmaking.
edit: You could even just move those cards to board and cut Grand Abolisher completely.
so from your posted list:
-4 Wall of Omens
-1 Castigate
-1 Anguished Unmaking
+4 Thraben Inspector
+2 Gideon
sideboard:
-3 Grand Abolisher
-2 Smother
-1 Gideon
+1 Zealous Persecution
+1 Anguished Unmaking
+2 Blood Baron
+1 Go for the Throat
+1 Fatal Push
for instance
For example, looking at mtggoldfish Modern metagame, top decks are Affinity, UR Storm, Eldrazi Tron, Burn, Death's Shadow, Dredge, CoCo, Ad Nauseam, etc. Ghost Quarter is serviceable to good against many of these but only Eldrazi Tron stands out as one where Crucible + Ghost Quarter would be really nice. Even then Eldrazi Tron only needs 5ish mana to function, unlike traditional Tron. If you imagine Crucible as a turn 4+ play then you could just be dropping a sick planeswalker instead.