Wow, pyromancer might actually be a great idea. Always felt that the deck could use an agressive 2 drop!
benefits are that you tap out on 2 instead of 3, which is better against a lot of combo decks. It's also nice Lilly protection. Downside is that removal like abrupt decay is more live against your deck.
I do feel that the built you posted is a bit weird. 26 lands with a lower curve is not needed. Shadow of doubt is a weird choice in the current meta, and the sideboard is a bit awkward with kor firewalkers. But for the rest I like the pyromancer idea.
I'd cut a land and shadow of doubt for the extra pyromancer, an extra resto and an electrolyze or clique.
I had seen some lists running Pyromancer, but i always felt that our standard list wouldn't maximize pyromancer's ability (without cantrips).
I agree with you, some options are a bit weird. 3 Combut seems too much and also 3 kataki to fight (what i think, afinnity) seems very narrow. Stony Silence would help against affinity, while also helping against Tron, and it's harder to destroy than a 2/1 creature. The firewalkers are there to face burn/ur delver, i'm still waiting to see how delver will behave without TC.
Isn't crackling doom just a better card than Celestial Flare I can't think of many boggles scenarios where it isn't better. It's also better in other match-ups.
It's better, but it also makes us to add a new colour to the deck. If we already played B, then of course crackling doom would be the correct choice. But to add B, we would have to sacrifice Tectonic Edge (which is a good weapon against some problems, colonnade or inkmoth). So i guess it comes down to preference/meta. Add a new colour, making our mana base a bit more inconsistent and sacrifice a good weapon (land destruction) or just play a replacement.
If 1/10th of my meta was bogles, I wouldn't mind playing a fracturing gust.
The spellskites in your board are nice, you might also want to consider going to two Engineerd Explosives?
Then again, I think your deck is slanted a bit too much towards that mtachup? I do think you want at least some negates and counterfluxes. Personally I run 2 flux and 2 negate in my side, because against some decks like shift, living end, storm and tron, the only thing you really need are geist/flash threats as a clock and as much counterspells as you can get your hands on.
I agree that logic knot should be a remand or mana leak.
Definitely agree with this. I've since changed my board, I've got a new sideboard on xMage to test things but haven't had a chance to try it yet, I may not even get to it before the next paper tournament. It's possible I'm leaning too far towards Bogles in game 1, but at 2 Flares it hasn't been much of a problem, the card always has targets it seems like, and I prefer removal to counters as I can tap out for a Geist but still guarantee I get him through. You could be right though that I shouldn't go deeper.
That's 14 cards, for the 15th I'm leaning towards an anti search mechanic which means Shadow of Doubt or Aven Mindcensor.
In which matches you bring pyroclasm? I also have Tron, and in the beggining of this new meta, i feel that pyroclasm is the card to drop. The only matchup where i feel it's good is against affinity. And at least UWR Midrange already have a good matchup against affinity, with the amount of burn/removal we run in mainboard (Tron has lots of troubles with affinity, so maybe it'll be a good sideboard card). Isn't a more wrath effect better than pyroclasm? Merfolk usually will have their creatures at 3 toughness, zoo is the same, faeries it would be enough but very difficult to actually be played through the counters, GBx will only hit dark confidant if they run it, bogles will have their creatures at 3 toughness at least... The only matchups where i feel it could work is against affinity and maybe hatebears.
Nice job overall. Bad luck with UB Mill, a turn 2 combo is not easy to stop, and the 3 traps play was very lucky from your opponent as well. That guy had very lucky, to have in the opening hand a 4 card combo (!?) for the 1st game and 3 traps for the second...
I liked your play vs tron, how did you feel Celestial Flare worked out against the other matches? I don't use them in my deck, but maybe they are more important to the new meta than i think.
And Geists are awesome a turn 3 Geist against many decks is almost GG, they don't have a way to remove them, and with the amount of removal we have, we can keep the board clear of blockers and it's usually a 2/3-turn clock (due to fetchs/shocklands/our burn).
Relic isn't bad, i think it's actually our best weapon against GY strategies (rip shuts down our snapcasters), but just isn't as good as it was (without pod). I think 1 is probably enough, unless GY decks start popping in every event.
I like your list, is a bit more controlling as usual (and that is not a bad thing, we don't know yet how the meta will be). Consider Spellskite as 2 of in sideboard, since it can shut down some strategies (boggles, infect, etc..), while affecting others (burn, affinity, etc...). If you're not interested, consider Batterskull. Is awesome against a lot of decks (including Abzan Midrange) and it can be equipped in Geist.
This is probably just bad, so feel free to castigate me for it, but has Hero's Blade been discussed at all? Seems like it was made for Geist. It'd be on curve, & let's you trade with a Rhino. Worth any consideration?
We discussed it a few pages ago, with no real conclusion. It looks a good card since it would help both Geist and/or Clique, but would it really be good? In an empty board and in topdeck mode the card is terrible, the best situation i feel the card shines is on turn2 followed by geist turn 3. But that would mean we tapped twice in a row in 2 important turns, so remand/removal aren't used and we didn't do anything to prevent our opponents' plan. But if you want Geist's 'add-ons', try Steel of the Godhead. The Zur's deck uses it and i have been in the wrong side of a 4/4 Geist with Lifelink, Hexproof and Unblockable
I also agree, and won't continue this debate. I just pointed out that a messiah appearing saying that solved one of our worst matchups, just by switching to a card that as already been tested, was wrong, and then continued the discussion simply because that messiah acted like a spoiled child attacking anyone who would say something against his argument.
Ok, so let's stay with facts and see who said fallacies.
I would be careful saying things like "you will always want to..." against Scapeshift if they are tapped out from Tribe-Elder and you want to land a Geist it's obviously great, but in many games, especially on the play they just Remand, Cryptic Command you into oblivion. If they have nothing than any strong 3 mana threat would have been fine. In fact Blade Splicer with Angel blinks can end up dealing more damage than a hand with Geist, Angel.
So remand and cryptic commands are bad for Geist, but not for Splicer? Is Splicer uncounterable? You continue saying Angel blinks, because your opponent can't deal with a 1/1 no inner protection creature? So, Splicer is uncounterable and have hexproof? Angel blinks are fun, I give you that, but now saying that Blade Splicer can end up dealing more damage than Geist Angel against (in this case was Scapeshift) is a dream. 1st, you are lucky if Geist/Splicer enter the battlefield without being remand, 2nd, you are really pushing your luck if you think that Resto could enter easily, 3rd you are way out of this planet if scapeshift simply doesn't kill splicer in response of resto trigger.
I think the match-up can be in your favor. Just depends if you're willing to run the right cards. I know several players that refuse to change cards. My buddy plays almost the same list as me except I switched from Geist to Blade Splcer and added a 4th Angel and have 1 more electrolyze. I win most of my Abzan matches and he loses most of his. He (like many) would rather lose with Geist than win with other cards....strange but true = /
Can you provide some data for that? How many wins in how many matchs? How many of those wins are related to Blade Splicer? If you had Geist, the outcome would be different in those matchs?
The Splicer is not new tech, was here for long long time, and was really discussed as Geist's alternative. It was tested, by way more people than you and me, and most of the UWR Midrange deck list who saw some success before KtK used 4 Geists instead of 4 Splicers. Yes, Geists are worse than Splicer against GBx Rock, but better against almost all of the rest of the meta. Again, unless your meta is 100% GBx Rock, you didn't show any reason why changing to Splicer besides your opinion and your feelings.
What I don't like is you acting like a Messiah, saying that you found the silver bullet in a card that was already tested A LOT and then saying that card makes one of our worse matchups in a favourable one. So, just following your logic, which would be our bad matchups? None? Are we looking at the best modern deck?
My deck has a fine matchup against Jund and Abzan, if you think yours is unfavorable and refuse to change things than have fun losing to the new power deck.
So you are saying that Jund/Abzan is the new power deck? Your basing this argument in which statistics? Do you have any post-ban huge tournament? Or is that how your lgs meta looks now?
I will continue to have a positive match-up with the most popular deck with good game against the aggressive decks as well.
The most popular decks in the last big tournament were Pod and Delver. Are you refering to those? Or are you refering again to GBx Rock being the most popular deck? Again, who's saying fallacies and made-up statistics? If in your lgs, GBx Rock is the most popular deck, i don't care, because i don't play in your meta. Against an open meta, we would have to check which decks are the most common and make decisions based on that. Historically, against an open meta, pre-ktk, Geist as seen more success than Splicer <- This is a fact.
Geist is one of those cards that's good on a clear board...
Isn't this what we want? A clear board? Which reason would we have to run 12-15 removal spells + counters?
continuing...
guess what, Pod is GONE. Creature decks are back! Clear boards aren't the order of the day. Pyroclasm and ANger are going to be all over the place. I don't even wanna talk about how much a blowout this is with all the Lilianas that are going to be running around.
Again, where are those stats? Creature decks are back? Where? In your meta? Because until now, we DIDN'T HAD ANY BIG TOURNAMENT, so why are you saying fallacies and making up metas?
Splicer is good right now.
Now? Exactly what do you mean? Against a made up meta that only exists in your mind with cute interactions imagining your opponent doesn't do anything so you could resto a 1/1 creature endlessly?
Now some facts.
Fact #1: We don't know what the new meta would look like, we don't have enough data, the only thing we have is assumptions. We assume that GBx Rock will be the most popular deck. But that doesnt mean it will really be the most popular. And even if it is, maybe the share will only be 12%. We don't know. Maybe Splicer for the future meta will be better than Geist, maybe not. I won't discuss that.
Fact #2: Against T1 decks defined in mtgsalvation, Geist is better than Splicer against UWR Control, UR Delver, Scapeshift, Tron and Burn. Basically any deck that have a lot of spot removal and inevitability, because Geist can give you a faster clock than Splicer. None have a great advantage vs Twin or Affinity, although, Geist has (again) a faster clock to end the match. Geist is worse than Splicer vs GBx Rock (separated in mtgsalvation in Jund, Abzan and GBx Rock Souls).
Fact #3: In a GBx Rock meta, you wouldn't play UWR Midrange, you would play Affinity or Tron. Those are GBx bad matchups.
Fact #4: Geist is bad against x/4+ creatures, because you can't easily kill the blockers. In any other situation, where the creatures aren't that big you can use your 12-15 removal spells to keep Geist alive and attacking.
Fact #5: UWR Midrange lists running Geist have seen better results in an open meta (GP/PT) than lists running Splicer. Also those results happened in a pre KtK meta (almost similar to what i assume we would have now - and this may be very wrong, since without pod we dont know which decks will emerge).
Fact #6: Pod was a bad match for Geist. Pod had 20% of meta share. Pod is gone.
I'm not saying you should play Geist instead of Splicer. I don't know what your meta looks like. And honestly i don't care. Maybe, for your meta Splicer is better. Maybe not. But you continue to assume that every meta is exactly the same as yours - "Why people continue to use Geists instead of Splicer? They are just stubborns".
Like talking to a wall. My matchup with Abzan is favorable as in I win it more than I lose it. If you want to keep losing to Abzan and then by all means keep using Geist and Keranos. I will continue to have a positive match-up with the most popular deck with good game against the aggressive decks as well. I do ask in the future that you use less logical fallacies and strawmen when quoting others text. Just because others have found upgrades to this match-up doesn't mean you need to try and attack them. I'm sorry your match-up is unfavorable.
Why do you say it's the most popular deck? In which statistics are you basing that argument? Post-bans we haven't had a huge tournament to show us how the meta will be. We all assume (I included) that Rock will be the most popular deck, but that does mean it's true. And even if it would be, his meta share will be what? 12%? 15% max? Why would you decrease your chances against the rest 85% (not exactly, but a figure of speech) just to improve that matchup? are you angry with someone who uses rock?
Also, you say you have a positive matchup, but against who? in your meta? in your home, against your brother? if you go to a GP or PT, if you play 100 matchs against rock, you'ld lose 55, and if you ever do that reality will just slap you in the face. You can argue all you want against that, because you won 10 matchs in 10 against your friend who plays rock in your lgs.
And don't act like a child, i never attacked you, i contested your opinion of "if we change from geist to splicer we have a favourable matchup vs the rock". And childish sentences like "Just because others have found upgrades to this match-up doesn't mean you need to try and attack them." or "I'm sorry your match-up is unfavorable." are unnecessary.
I'm losing interest in Geist, personally. 2 toughness makes it a 'must resto this to make it effective' if you are anywhere but ahead on board state. Sure, if you have their board clear and you have a Geist out, maybe you can pull ahead for a win but with anger of the gods, pyroclasm, and a huge beastiary of >2 power creatures, Geist just doesn't equate to the advantage I want it to in the majority of situations.
Actually i feel geist is way better in this current meta than the previous one. The only match from T1 decks (for the reference, T1 decks in mtgsalvation) that Geist doesn't shine is against Rock. But if you feel geist is not the route, i advice you to try UWR Flash build (for the reference http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/uwr-flash-in-modern/)
The deck was to a meta before KtK so against KtK meta it didn't worked so well, but maybe now that we have a similiar pre-ktk meta this deck could find its place.
Splicer is better versus rock decks. You are saying that if we can get a match percentage from 40 to 45 its not worth it. If you say it is unfavourable, it matters to which extent it is favourable or unfavourable right? It's a non-argument saying that both unfavorables are alike, thus we should discard the splicer idea.
I never said that! I said and will quote myself
Splicer is better than geist vs rock, but that doesn't mean splicer IS GOOD vs rock. You are speaking like, if we change from geist to splicer, we would have a good matchup vs rock, and that is a lie. With geist or splicer, our matchup is not favourable. The difference is that geist renders a lot of spells useless, and is way better vs other decks than splicer (faster clock and hexproof).
I don't use Splicer, because my meta is not 100% Rock, and if it were, i wouldn't use uwr midrange, i would be using affinity or Tron. Splicer doesn't make our matchup good against Rock if we trade him for Geist. Against the rest of the meta, Geist is way better than Splicer and that is a reason to not trade it. If your meta is only Rock, then, by all means, switch from UWR Midrange to Tron.
Who said I was assuming Splicer will live for another turn? It it dies, it dies. I have a 3/3 and they spent a card on a 1/1.
You will have a 3/3, with no first strike, that can't deal with a 4/5 rhino, a 3/4-6/7 goyf, a 4/5 tasigur, a 4/4 ooze. Good odds
I don't really care why other people are playing Geist, that isn't relevant. Appeal to authority or the masses isn't a valid argument.
Nop, like following any successful deck isn't valid as well. But if you don't have any results to show, why would you argue that in your home, against your little brother, splicer rules? we are talking in a competitive thread, so we can discuss competitive tournaments.
Blade Splicer makes your 4 Restoration Angels very powerful. Geist doesn't do anything with Angel. Splicer makes Liliana worse. Do you see a trend here? This card makes our cards better and opponent's cards worse. Geist doesn't "render" anything useless, we have other creatures in the deck.
Splicer makes your angels powerfull if your opponent doesn't kill your splicer in response. Geist they simply cant kill with spells and you could save him while attacking with a 4/4 flying. And i'm not discussing that Splicer is worse against rock than geist, i agree that splicer is better against rock. but like i said before, meta is not 100% rock, and overall, geist is better than splicer.
I used Keranos for a long time in my sideboard against grindy matchups and it was never worth it. The walkers are generally better (and easier to cast).
Finally a good opinion from you! you tested and didn't worked for you. others have tested and worked very fine for them. Rock players find it hard to deal with keranos, but again, those are only opinions.
Again, if you want to keep running Geist I could care less. There are lots of people who refuse to play other cards because of whatever reason. The rest of us change so that we can win more. My deck has a fine matchup against Jund and Abzan, if you think yours is unfavorable and refuse to change things than have fun losing to the new power deck.
Good that your deck has now a fine matchup against rock (45/55 probably). If your meta is just rock, then i advice you to change to tron or affinity. To get a 45/55 against rock, you lost like 10-20% against other decks. But again, it's my opinion.
And just to get this straight, i'm not saying that you should change your deck, or use geists. I don't care. What I don't agree is saying (like you made it sound in the beggining) that swapping geist to splicer would give us a good chance against rock. It doesn't.
Why do you assume your splicer will survive more than 1 round? they have 10 removal spells (more or less). those spells would be useless against geist, but are enough to deal with a 1/1 with cmc=3. Why do you think the people who had some success with the deck (i don't like to use the word 'pros') wouldn't use splicer? Splicer is better than geist vs rock, but that doesn't mean splicer IS GOOD vs rock. You are speaking like, if we change from geist to splicer, we would have a good matchup vs rock, and that is a lie. With geist or splicer, our matchup is not favourable. The difference is that geist renders a lot of spells useless, and is way better vs other decks than splicer (faster clock and hexproof).
Keranos is bad vs rock? go to any thread of rock decks (jund, junk or gb rock) and ask for the top 5 cards they are most scared of facing. Keranos would be there. Rock's goal is to put both players in top deck mode, where their better threats and planeswalkers could shine. Keranos is something they can't deal with, and keeps a burn clock or gives you extra cards (something they don't want to).
Edit: Just searched some pages from The Rock -BGx Souls. I leave you with some quotes.
Yeah, minimal changes are necessary, depending on their list. In games 2/3 you need to watch out for stuff like Batterskull, Keranos, Blood Moon, Vedalken Shackles, and other sizeable threats that you might not be as prepared for in your main. Flexible cards like Unravel the Aether are pretty good here
(why unravel instead of a destroy enchantment spell? ah, because it can deal with Keranos)
Tasigur seems like a great card for the mirror match and against control. We have horrible time dealing with Keranos against UWR, dropping him against uwr lategame while being able to activate him atleast once could be game breaking. (or, thrun might just be better in the mirror and against uwr).
Quote from Boner_Titan »
Hey guys, quick question that would really help me out. I'm a dedicated control player toying with different UW and UWR builds, also possibly esper. I've been performing incredibly well against most of the field, but can never seem to gain any advantage or value when facing Jund or Junk.
From YOUR perspective, what are Jund / Jund worse matchups, and what cards do you hate seeing the most, preferably that would be playable in control decks. What cards do you fear most when playing, or at least, what opposing cards annoy you and make your game much more difficult?
Thanks for the insight, good games to all!
From control I despise seeing Keranos, he requires such a perfect answer to combat.
Unravel is there as a trump for Keranos.
Keep saying Keranos is bad, and ignore one of the best weapons we have against Rock...
I like the fact that you make it sound so easy. "Just change from geist to splicer..."
Splicer was much better against pod than geist, in the prev meta splicer could be better. Now, against jund/junk they both suck, with the small difference that geist renders useless 8-10 of their spells. Your 3/3 golem would do as much as geist, and your splicer would just give jund/junk a way to use their 4 abrupt decay, 1-2 dismember, 1-2 path to exile, 4 lightning bolt, 1-2 maelstrom pulse, etc... if you are talking regarding a situation where you play geist, and they'll make you sacrifice it with liliana, think that you could play splicer, they kill him with one of their 10 removal spells (that are useless against geist) and then eat your golem with their goyfs, rhinos, tasigur, ooze, manlands, etc...
Against jund/junk the 5 mana threats shine (keranos and batterskull are mvp in that match)
Some suggestions regarding your list.
1st. A 5 mana threat (thundermaw hellkite, stormbreath dragon, keranos or batterskull are the most common choices). I always feel that, for our midrange play style we want some ending game threat and not just 2/3 power creature.
2nd. Celestial Flare is, imo, a sideboard card at best (obviously depends on your meta, if you have a lot of boggles, just ignore this). Against some decks, scapeshift or uwr control we already have some useless cards (4 pte for instance) so adding 2 more useless cards against those decks I don't think it's where we want to go.
3rd. Your board is full of sweepers and extra removal. I think it's too much, and against some decks (again the decks that run few creatures) you'll find yourself without options.
4th. Without pod, I don't think Aven mindcensor should be mainboard (again it's meta dependent, I'm giving suggestions for an open meta).
5th. Consider Cryptic Command instead of logic knot. Yes, you can play UU and counter a spell, but all CC options are awesome to our deck (bounce an ensnaring bridge or tapping all blockers so geist can attack while drawing extra card).
I had seen some lists running Pyromancer, but i always felt that our standard list wouldn't maximize pyromancer's ability (without cantrips).
I agree with you, some options are a bit weird. 3 Combut seems too much and also 3 kataki to fight (what i think, afinnity) seems very narrow. Stony Silence would help against affinity, while also helping against Tron, and it's harder to destroy than a 2/1 creature. The firewalkers are there to face burn/ur delver, i'm still waiting to see how delver will behave without TC.
It's better, but it also makes us to add a new colour to the deck. If we already played B, then of course crackling doom would be the correct choice. But to add B, we would have to sacrifice Tectonic Edge (which is a good weapon against some problems, colonnade or inkmoth). So i guess it comes down to preference/meta. Add a new colour, making our mana base a bit more inconsistent and sacrifice a good weapon (land destruction) or just play a replacement.
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesIn which matches you bring pyroclasm? I also have Tron, and in the beggining of this new meta, i feel that pyroclasm is the card to drop. The only matchup where i feel it's good is against affinity. And at least UWR Midrange already have a good matchup against affinity, with the amount of burn/removal we run in mainboard (Tron has lots of troubles with affinity, so maybe it'll be a good sideboard card). Isn't a more wrath effect better than pyroclasm? Merfolk usually will have their creatures at 3 toughness, zoo is the same, faeries it would be enough but very difficult to actually be played through the counters, GBx will only hit dark confidant if they run it, bogles will have their creatures at 3 toughness at least... The only matchups where i feel it could work is against affinity and maybe hatebears.
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesI liked your play vs tron, how did you feel Celestial Flare worked out against the other matches? I don't use them in my deck, but maybe they are more important to the new meta than i think.
And Geists are awesome a turn 3 Geist against many decks is almost GG, they don't have a way to remove them, and with the amount of removal we have, we can keep the board clear of blockers and it's usually a 2/3-turn clock (due to fetchs/shocklands/our burn).
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesUR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesI like your list, is a bit more controlling as usual (and that is not a bad thing, we don't know yet how the meta will be). Consider Spellskite as 2 of in sideboard, since it can shut down some strategies (boggles, infect, etc..), while affecting others (burn, affinity, etc...). If you're not interested, consider Batterskull. Is awesome against a lot of decks (including Abzan Midrange) and it can be equipped in Geist.
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesWe discussed it a few pages ago, with no real conclusion. It looks a good card since it would help both Geist and/or Clique, but would it really be good? In an empty board and in topdeck mode the card is terrible, the best situation i feel the card shines is on turn2 followed by geist turn 3. But that would mean we tapped twice in a row in 2 important turns, so remand/removal aren't used and we didn't do anything to prevent our opponents' plan. But if you want Geist's 'add-ons', try Steel of the Godhead. The Zur's deck uses it and i have been in the wrong side of a 4/4 Geist with Lifelink, Hexproof and Unblockable
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesUR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesSo remand and cryptic commands are bad for Geist, but not for Splicer? Is Splicer uncounterable? You continue saying Angel blinks, because your opponent can't deal with a 1/1 no inner protection creature? So, Splicer is uncounterable and have hexproof? Angel blinks are fun, I give you that, but now saying that Blade Splicer can end up dealing more damage than Geist Angel against (in this case was Scapeshift) is a dream. 1st, you are lucky if Geist/Splicer enter the battlefield without being remand, 2nd, you are really pushing your luck if you think that Resto could enter easily, 3rd you are way out of this planet if scapeshift simply doesn't kill splicer in response of resto trigger.
Can you provide some data for that? How many wins in how many matchs? How many of those wins are related to Blade Splicer? If you had Geist, the outcome would be different in those matchs?
The Splicer is not new tech, was here for long long time, and was really discussed as Geist's alternative. It was tested, by way more people than you and me, and most of the UWR Midrange deck list who saw some success before KtK used 4 Geists instead of 4 Splicers. Yes, Geists are worse than Splicer against GBx Rock, but better against almost all of the rest of the meta. Again, unless your meta is 100% GBx Rock, you didn't show any reason why changing to Splicer besides your opinion and your feelings.
What I don't like is you acting like a Messiah, saying that you found the silver bullet in a card that was already tested A LOT and then saying that card makes one of our worse matchups in a favourable one. So, just following your logic, which would be our bad matchups? None? Are we looking at the best modern deck?
So you are saying that Jund/Abzan is the new power deck? Your basing this argument in which statistics? Do you have any post-ban huge tournament? Or is that how your lgs meta looks now?
The most popular decks in the last big tournament were Pod and Delver. Are you refering to those? Or are you refering again to GBx Rock being the most popular deck? Again, who's saying fallacies and made-up statistics? If in your lgs, GBx Rock is the most popular deck, i don't care, because i don't play in your meta. Against an open meta, we would have to check which decks are the most common and make decisions based on that. Historically, against an open meta, pre-ktk, Geist as seen more success than Splicer <- This is a fact.
Isn't this what we want? A clear board? Which reason would we have to run 12-15 removal spells + counters?
continuing...
Again, where are those stats? Creature decks are back? Where? In your meta? Because until now, we DIDN'T HAD ANY BIG TOURNAMENT, so why are you saying fallacies and making up metas?
Now? Exactly what do you mean? Against a made up meta that only exists in your mind with cute interactions imagining your opponent doesn't do anything so you could resto a 1/1 creature endlessly?
Now some facts.
Fact #1: We don't know what the new meta would look like, we don't have enough data, the only thing we have is assumptions. We assume that GBx Rock will be the most popular deck. But that doesnt mean it will really be the most popular. And even if it is, maybe the share will only be 12%. We don't know. Maybe Splicer for the future meta will be better than Geist, maybe not. I won't discuss that.
Fact #2: Against T1 decks defined in mtgsalvation, Geist is better than Splicer against UWR Control, UR Delver, Scapeshift, Tron and Burn. Basically any deck that have a lot of spot removal and inevitability, because Geist can give you a faster clock than Splicer. None have a great advantage vs Twin or Affinity, although, Geist has (again) a faster clock to end the match. Geist is worse than Splicer vs GBx Rock (separated in mtgsalvation in Jund, Abzan and GBx Rock Souls).
Fact #3: In a GBx Rock meta, you wouldn't play UWR Midrange, you would play Affinity or Tron. Those are GBx bad matchups.
Fact #4: Geist is bad against x/4+ creatures, because you can't easily kill the blockers. In any other situation, where the creatures aren't that big you can use your 12-15 removal spells to keep Geist alive and attacking.
Fact #5: UWR Midrange lists running Geist have seen better results in an open meta (GP/PT) than lists running Splicer. Also those results happened in a pre KtK meta (almost similar to what i assume we would have now - and this may be very wrong, since without pod we dont know which decks will emerge).
Fact #6: Pod was a bad match for Geist. Pod had 20% of meta share. Pod is gone.
I'm not saying you should play Geist instead of Splicer. I don't know what your meta looks like. And honestly i don't care. Maybe, for your meta Splicer is better. Maybe not. But you continue to assume that every meta is exactly the same as yours - "Why people continue to use Geists instead of Splicer? They are just stubborns".
Best regards
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesWhy do you say it's the most popular deck? In which statistics are you basing that argument? Post-bans we haven't had a huge tournament to show us how the meta will be. We all assume (I included) that Rock will be the most popular deck, but that does mean it's true. And even if it would be, his meta share will be what? 12%? 15% max? Why would you decrease your chances against the rest 85% (not exactly, but a figure of speech) just to improve that matchup? are you angry with someone who uses rock?
Also, you say you have a positive matchup, but against who? in your meta? in your home, against your brother? if you go to a GP or PT, if you play 100 matchs against rock, you'ld lose 55, and if you ever do that reality will just slap you in the face. You can argue all you want against that, because you won 10 matchs in 10 against your friend who plays rock in your lgs.
And don't act like a child, i never attacked you, i contested your opinion of "if we change from geist to splicer we have a favourable matchup vs the rock". And childish sentences like "Just because others have found upgrades to this match-up doesn't mean you need to try and attack them." or "I'm sorry your match-up is unfavorable." are unnecessary.
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesActually i feel geist is way better in this current meta than the previous one. The only match from T1 decks (for the reference, T1 decks in mtgsalvation) that Geist doesn't shine is against Rock. But if you feel geist is not the route, i advice you to try UWR Flash build (for the reference http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/uwr-flash-in-modern/)
The deck was to a meta before KtK so against KtK meta it didn't worked so well, but maybe now that we have a similiar pre-ktk meta this deck could find its place.
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesI never said that! I said and will quote myself
I don't use Splicer, because my meta is not 100% Rock, and if it were, i wouldn't use uwr midrange, i would be using affinity or Tron. Splicer doesn't make our matchup good against Rock if we trade him for Geist. Against the rest of the meta, Geist is way better than Splicer and that is a reason to not trade it. If your meta is only Rock, then, by all means, switch from UWR Midrange to Tron.
You will have a 3/3, with no first strike, that can't deal with a 4/5 rhino, a 3/4-6/7 goyf, a 4/5 tasigur, a 4/4 ooze. Good odds
Nop, like following any successful deck isn't valid as well. But if you don't have any results to show, why would you argue that in your home, against your little brother, splicer rules? we are talking in a competitive thread, so we can discuss competitive tournaments.
Splicer makes your angels powerfull if your opponent doesn't kill your splicer in response. Geist they simply cant kill with spells and you could save him while attacking with a 4/4 flying. And i'm not discussing that Splicer is worse against rock than geist, i agree that splicer is better against rock. but like i said before, meta is not 100% rock, and overall, geist is better than splicer.
Finally a good opinion from you! you tested and didn't worked for you. others have tested and worked very fine for them. Rock players find it hard to deal with keranos, but again, those are only opinions.
Good that your deck has now a fine matchup against rock (45/55 probably). If your meta is just rock, then i advice you to change to tron or affinity. To get a 45/55 against rock, you lost like 10-20% against other decks. But again, it's my opinion.
And just to get this straight, i'm not saying that you should change your deck, or use geists. I don't care. What I don't agree is saying (like you made it sound in the beggining) that swapping geist to splicer would give us a good chance against rock. It doesn't.
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesKeranos is bad vs rock? go to any thread of rock decks (jund, junk or gb rock) and ask for the top 5 cards they are most scared of facing. Keranos would be there. Rock's goal is to put both players in top deck mode, where their better threats and planeswalkers could shine. Keranos is something they can't deal with, and keeps a burn clock or gives you extra cards (something they don't want to).
Edit: Just searched some pages from The Rock -BGx Souls. I leave you with some quotes.
(why unravel instead of a destroy enchantment spell? ah, because it can deal with Keranos)
Keep saying Keranos is bad, and ignore one of the best weapons we have against Rock...
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesSplicer was much better against pod than geist, in the prev meta splicer could be better. Now, against jund/junk they both suck, with the small difference that geist renders useless 8-10 of their spells. Your 3/3 golem would do as much as geist, and your splicer would just give jund/junk a way to use their 4 abrupt decay, 1-2 dismember, 1-2 path to exile, 4 lightning bolt, 1-2 maelstrom pulse, etc... if you are talking regarding a situation where you play geist, and they'll make you sacrifice it with liliana, think that you could play splicer, they kill him with one of their 10 removal spells (that are useless against geist) and then eat your golem with their goyfs, rhinos, tasigur, ooze, manlands, etc...
Against jund/junk the 5 mana threats shine (keranos and batterskull are mvp in that match)
UR TwinLegacy
UWR MiraclesUR TwinLegacy
UWR Miracles1st. A 5 mana threat (thundermaw hellkite, stormbreath dragon, keranos or batterskull are the most common choices). I always feel that, for our midrange play style we want some ending game threat and not just 2/3 power creature.
2nd. Celestial Flare is, imo, a sideboard card at best (obviously depends on your meta, if you have a lot of boggles, just ignore this). Against some decks, scapeshift or uwr control we already have some useless cards (4 pte for instance) so adding 2 more useless cards against those decks I don't think it's where we want to go.
3rd. Your board is full of sweepers and extra removal. I think it's too much, and against some decks (again the decks that run few creatures) you'll find yourself without options.
4th. Without pod, I don't think Aven mindcensor should be mainboard (again it's meta dependent, I'm giving suggestions for an open meta).
5th. Consider Cryptic Command instead of logic knot. Yes, you can play UU and counter a spell, but all CC options are awesome to our deck (bounce an ensnaring bridge or tapping all blockers so geist can attack while drawing extra card).
Hope it helps.
best regards
UR TwinLegacy
UWR Miracles