I don't think I would run Spiteful Visions. A lot of the time you'll take a hit here or there after wraths and such to hold on to another fog or take some hits early from guides and such. Adding visions just pretty much does the rest of the work for them. I can see a turbo smog version running 2 Underworld Dreams as the finisher,
Has anyone thought about running Peace of Mind to get out of burn or combo range? I'd imagine just 1 main is all that's needed since it's not spectacular in some matches, and bad early. Thinking about gaining life off of all those extra lands.
i think it was mentioned before but could have been another thread. ive run spiteful before with no issue. everyone sees it as a bad card but since they draw first off all our turbo piece outside of a flashed in kruphix, they are behind on life 1st. plus with elixir of immortality gaining back 5, ive never had an issue using it.
i play temple bell and i orefer it to dictate. getting a 1 card advatage over them by flashing it in isnt worth it to me. id rather use bell to force them to draw when i want them to. this can help by making them draw when they cant play whatever they draw. like you said... its a preference and has its advantages and disadvantages. i also like keeping off the double blue but i never have color issues with my deck. i use to run kruphix as a 2 of and font as a 2 of. im gonna try a patriot version here soon. just have to buy a few lands and spiteful visions and keranos, god of storms
i find against control we play like burn. stockpile fogs until they rly want to fight over dmg because we have more fogs than they do counters. my only issue is if they counter mines etc. but ive had very few ppl do that. i have counters in board for tron mu's. now tron is mostly etron now so idk if im as worried but i also havnt rly played much in the last yr or 2
does anyone have a list running Fevered Visions ? ive wanted to do something with it and Ebony Owl Netsuke but netsuke my be too hard to make happen. but having visions plus another card with a similar effect may work out rly well. thinking about visions + Spiteful Visions or Keranos, God of Storms
thats why i like the idea of running a i win card against them like 2nd sun. but even making it to 7 mana and have 2 turns to cast them is difficult. i wish we had a better wincon sadly. ive tried a lot of things. my current sb off the top of my head against tron is like 2 negates, 1 counter that bounces one of our lands, 2 o-rings, 1 d sphere, and, if I remember right, 2 pithing needles.
all of them can deal with O-stone and their walkers. I also thought mono blue Tron was dead but I have three players who play Tron. One is u/w, one is utron, and the other is r/g tron.
Good point on Karn. I find that Ugin is usually the scoop card for most other decks. So I was more talking about that PW in Tron. Karn can hurt as it takes away our resources. Haven't found a good out against it yet. Possibly some Unmaking in place of extractions in a meta with few graveyard Emmy decks? Having 3 of them gives you a pretty good chance to destroy the first Karn played then after elixir activations you can just wait for any PW threat and strike it.
In the Tron matchup it's important to not throw out all your turbo cards at once. OStone can come down and cripple you quickly. Think of the turbo effects as creatures against a deck with lots of sweepers.
Oh I know but my local store here has a guy who plays mono blue and the issue is even playing any turbo pieces gets him to where he can buy back whatever counterspell it is and slowly he locks me out as he gets mana on the field. I've had a hard time against Ron but as far as control and burn usually I'm pretty good against them. I'm wanting to figure a way to battle Tron better. Maybe I should add ghost quarters in the sideboard along with Stony silence but for now my sideboard runs counter spells and o-ring with d sphere
true. sry. i wasnt thinking when i posted that. i work over 80 hrs a week every week and only get about 4 hous a night. i have been play turbosmog, which ive been calling it that for about 6 yrs now, for better part of 10 yrs. as far as tron goes, ive nvr had a good mu against any version of it. karn hurts. now i have played against etron but thats primarilly bc with me work so many hours, i spend the little time i have with my 2 boys and fiance.
Batwing is a fine smog if you plan on winning with damage in some way. Most often I'll win by decking, but Emmy makes that plan hard. You can always take a secondary damage win con and push in a copy or two.
Very rarely do they actually walk into enough batwings to win you the game. However it is VERY funny to batwing them over and over with elixir's over a long game where they are literally scared to attack with more than 1 or 2 guys. I had a friend sitting on 1 life and he was too scared to attack with anything. SMOG AT ITS PEAK! LOL
You really want Sudden spoiling since it is basically uncounterable. Dawn charm is always going to be the best smog. Then holy day or darkness fills the rest of the smogs. 1 elixir of immortality is necessary to ensure you don't deck.
I like 1 or 2 Surgical Extraction in Turbo Smog to take out any antidecking mechanics. (Only answer to Emmy decks)
Also like playing a one of Syphon Life to pitch any excess lands for a bit of a faster win con in turbo smog. That card is no good if you draw it early though.
if youre gonna run siphon life, I would add in a few copies of dakmor Salvage and maybe a copy or two of Raven's crime and at that point, id go b/w, change the mana base, and my only blue card would be verdict. and change my sb up
Then we seem to be having the same kind of luck. To be honest I've never encountered an issue like the others have described in this forum about counter decks countering all their fogs and attacking for the kill. I always just assumed it was because I was exhausting there counters with my wraths though. Lol
i play verdict so they dont get to counter it. i usually am tapped out bt the end of every one of tgeir turns unless its very late game. and if i tap out for wrath and they counter, that could be game over. so i dont let my wraths be counterable
i usually draw so many fogs and see my wraths pkenty often enough that i out do counter heavy decks and nvr have a problem with mass amoubts of fogs. i literally carry a 7 card hand from about turn 4 on
i like black in my list but 8 wraths imo is way too many. i run 2 and see them plenty. batwing lost its favor with me with the banning of twin. it was great to have them go off and brume for the win. at this point, im wanting to try elocutors + greaves. the combo mentioned above sounds interesting but thats a combo thats hard to pull off. we have to let them take us past 0 which is the opposite of what turbo FOG tries to do. then we have to be able to get both to stick and theres plenty of enchantment hate right now. g1 might take a few but g2 is a little more difficult. i realize my plan is just as fragile g2 but i usually pack gideon, champion of justice as a wincon g2. pls test that lil combo and let me know how it works out. im still feeling like the best win con is the slavee lock but i dont like winning that way. haha wasnt there some card that recently came out that you sace and it gives you 2 of each color mana? we could combo that with door to nothingness if such a card was printed
has anyone seen any tournament play as of late. im working on getting a few things to finish a lifegain build to help against burn and that will open more of the sideboard for tron
i usually use ulamog. hes just more realistically castable than emrakul. ive played this deck for years and the only way ive had time to get to 15 mana is either youre flooded in which you arent fogging or youre playing a game that is probably gonna be over soon anyways bc they will mill out. ive actually casted ulamog, infinite gyre against affinity due to a blood moon while still fogging and beat down with him. its not impossible but you dont really want to run more than 23-24 lands bc you need to make sure youre getting enough fogs and nvr are without them when against aggro. if youre against control, emmy is nice for uncounterable but chances are they will catch you at some point with not enough fogs in your hand compared to the number of counters in theirs. I've also found that if I'm not running a minimal of 16 fogs plus 3 - 4 wraths that you can sometimes not draw any fogs even with a few mines out but I do like the idea that you have. The cool thing about Second Sun is that even if it's countered you casted it so the second time you cast it in a game is a win even if they countered the 1st. I also always recommend a way to shuffle your fogs back in besides hoping to draw and discard you're emrakul/ulamog such as elixir of immortality, wheel of Sun and Moon, or something along those lines
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i think it was mentioned before but could have been another thread. ive run spiteful before with no issue. everyone sees it as a bad card but since they draw first off all our turbo piece outside of a flashed in kruphix, they are behind on life 1st. plus with elixir of immortality gaining back 5, ive never had an issue using it.
all of them can deal with O-stone and their walkers. I also thought mono blue Tron was dead but I have three players who play Tron. One is u/w, one is utron, and the other is r/g tron.
Oh I know but my local store here has a guy who plays mono blue and the issue is even playing any turbo pieces gets him to where he can buy back whatever counterspell it is and slowly he locks me out as he gets mana on the field. I've had a hard time against Ron but as far as control and burn usually I'm pretty good against them. I'm wanting to figure a way to battle Tron better. Maybe I should add ghost quarters in the sideboard along with Stony silence but for now my sideboard runs counter spells and o-ring with d sphere
if youre gonna run siphon life, I would add in a few copies of dakmor Salvage and maybe a copy or two of Raven's crime and at that point, id go b/w, change the mana base, and my only blue card would be verdict. and change my sb up
i play verdict so they dont get to counter it. i usually am tapped out bt the end of every one of tgeir turns unless its very late game. and if i tap out for wrath and they counter, that could be game over. so i dont let my wraths be counterable