I can't really stand the comparison to Darkthicket Wolf. One of these is a monocolor card, the other really isn't. And on a less substantial note, I'm honestly not a fan of "multicolor" cards that have more of a chance of being played in one color than the other. Hybrid is fine; legit multicolor is fine; "multicolor" usually gets a pass from me.
On top of that, I disagree that it's better than the Evolve, Flash dude.
I have been playing a few Pack Wars with RtR. Has anyone tried this with cube?
Rules:
take a 15 cards pack, shuffle in 3 of each basic, play.
when you run out of cards, shuffle graveyard into library (deck cannot win).
there are sub variants about opening handsize, etc.
I am unsure if I would cut down the specialty lands we use, or just make the regular packs.I I think it would be fun as 1 or 2 packs per person. _nd usually it is blind shuffle, so you don't even know your deck.
I've got friends that I open the new sets and play this format with. Then the basics are taken out, the winner decides which one of them has to "Fact or Fiction" the cards, and then the other person gets first pick of which pile to keep. =D
Admittedly, this can be a little frustrating when a $40 card and nothing else note-worthy gets pulled, but then it just becomes 1 vs 29 other cards. Still really fun.
Just remembered a game of Shards of Alara. My buddy and I decided start the life totals at 7 before we look at our opening hand(3 cards, btw.). My opener had Wild Nacatl, Forest, Mountain. His had a 3 drop and two lands... On the play, I lay my forest + Nacatl and pass. On turn 2, I play the mountain and bring him down to 5. Eot I cycle Viscera Dragger and draw a swamp. GG.
It seems a lot worse than Kor Skyfisher, but maybe that's still good enough. I'm not excited by the card, but I can obviously imagine a ton of situations it would be good in.
the only thing I know about Frostburn Weird is that I want to play it somewhere.
Tempo decks need to have cheap creatures early (turns 1-2) to make the above cards actually properly functional. Kor Hookmaster is unimpressive if it's the first creature you play, but a curve of deft duelist, Man-o-war, Mist Raven, Kor Hookmaster is as close to unbeatable as you can get in this format - without the duelist you've got an okay hand. Sure, duelist can be replaced by other 2 drops, but duelist is really good in the deck because they can't trade with it or burn it and you've got lots of ways to stop x/3s from blocking.
You can't really start your curve at 3 in tempo, which is where I see many of these decks go wrong.
Hussar Patrol is still a far better card in controlling UW decks.
I think you're using tempo as a solely aggressive word. I literally use it for the speed of the game, no matter the speed. As long as I am furthering my plan every turn while setting back the opponent's, I call it tempo. Do I need a two drop creature to set up this situation? Certainly not. If instead of this two drop creature, I have a removal spell like Pacifism or even a Withdraw, Undo etc I am still hindering furthering my game plan.
When I look at UW, I see a color pairing that is more tempo-control oriented, at least compared to RG decks and the like. Sure, it can get the fast draw like many decks in Pauper can, but it's more of a value-oriented pairing. I look at Hussar Patrol as a card that will make more decks because it's really good in tempo and control, while being an okay curve-topper for aggro, especially in the mirror. I look at Duelist as a card that I will never play in a control deck unless I'm facing another blue deck with something like Flood or a Fireball/multiple damage splitting spells that I have to race against and want to get the beats in early, or an aggressive deck that just has the nuts and I definitely need another way not to die on turn 5-6.
Just because I don't think Duelist is a better card than Patrol for UW doesn't mean my curve will stat at 3.
I like UW tempo decks, I like duelist better than patrol. Feeling is the other card I like out of those 4.
I really like Weird from playing it in draft, so that would be the choice for me.
I like tempo decks too, but in those, I want my creatures to be actually tempo-orientated. That would be Man-o'-War and Kor Hookmaster etc. In fact, I'm pretty sure the flash will be more relevant to a tempo archetype than the cheaper manacost on Duelist(hold open mana for Withdraw or Into the Roil). That is my assessment anyway, having played with both.
Patrol and Feeling. I cut Duelist for Patrol and I've been thrilled. Not to say that Duelist is a bad card, but it's only for straight up UW decks that want/need an early dude. It scales really poorly as the game goes on despite the number of 2 toughness creatures in Pauper and isn't powerful enough to include if you only have a few white or blue cards.
Hussar Patrol, on the other, scales much better as the game goes on and can actually combine really well with equipment. Last week I was able to flash it in, kill a dude, and on my turn play and equip Vulshock Morningstar. It made for a great couple of turns.
Duelist is better in the decks where you are a straight up split between UW so that you can play it turn two and actually care about something like that so early, but Patrol is better everywhere else, especially in a deck that is 3+ colors.
As for the second choice, I have not tried Trick, but the weird is the real deal. Luckily I had Razorfin Hunter in my cube, so it was an easy cut for me. Glad to have that garbage out of my cube.
Yeah, I looked at my cube and I definitely cut the plant land. I just don't see the appeal of cycling lands. I mean, I get it, but they don't actually do anything. The flexibility on cards like Shorline Ranger and the like is miles past cycling lands, so I think that's a bad comparison. You know what you're getting with Shoreline Ranger every time and neither is bad.
And Desert is most certainly nowhere near a land version of Fireslinger. They have to be attacking, and it deals with it after damage is dealt. That's hardly at all like Fireslinger. Don't get me wrong, it's still in my cube and I think it's good enough to make the cut, I'm just not terribly excited about it because it can hamper playing your spells in the mid-game if you're playing two colors or more, obviously. And it's not the best land in Pauper. I'd rank it below bouncelands, gates, as well as Promenade/Rupture Spire. I'm just a big fan of casting spells and tempo more so than I am playing lands that can hurt my tempo despite acting like spells.
Again, having said all this, it's still in the cube. It's just not the best Pauper land; hyperbole gets us nowhere.
I would argue against Bajuka Bog being cubable. It's normally worse that a basic and more of a narrow sideboard card. Not really the type of card I want in cube.
I'll say it's not super exciting most, but it actually does something. Tortured Existence, Disturbed Burial, Death Denied, any playable Scavenge creatures that might make it in. Granted, the cards I actually named are black, but still.
I mean, you're running a cycling land. Think about that. It's worse than a basic early in the game and it's big benefit is that late game it becomes another random card. Without Loam or something else to get consistent card draw out of them, they are just B: Draw a card...and is that a card you'd really run? The cycling lands are fine mid-game, I suppose, but they just don't do enough because I include them in their prospective color sections.
If instead of discarding it, you could sacrifice it, I would have no problem running them. That's pretty obvious I suppose. As it stands though, cycling lands do nothing your other cards can't do. They either tap for mana or become a random card + a mana.
Really, I understand the flexibility of a land + a minor spell, but they just don't stack up to actual spells once you put them in the color sections. And they're in the color sections anyway so I don't get suckered into playing entire cycles of crappy lands.
Also there is a god chance that your play group are underestimating those lands and are picking them low. The power that replacing a basic with something that adds more to your deck is really huge. Especially because you are guaranteed to play with it if it is on colour. It's often the right pick over something like an additional creature that you might be cutting from your deck, even if it makes the cut, the marginal bonus that it provides over the card that got cut over it isn't likely to be more that the raw power the land would add over a basic.
I think you're vastly overestimating the "raw power" of many of these lands. Now that I think about it, I might still be running the land that gives you a 0/1 plant. I kinda like that one because you can block with it or put an equipment on it...mostly blocking though. I'm not 100% if it's in the cube, but I could see going either way on it.
I think the only color lands I run are the Ponder land and Bojuka Bog. I cut all the rest a long ime go, because they always went really late in picks. They just watered the packs down.
Also, glad to see Hussar Patrol getting play. I just added it in mine and I have high hopes for it. Not unlike RTR limited, 4 toughness is critical in Pauper cube. Not that UW really needed another 4 drop, but it's better for the deck than what I cut.
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Yeah, that's just wrong.
On top of that, I disagree that it's better than the Evolve, Flash dude.
Well, that's not true.
Yeah, sounds bad imo. I won't be doing that.
I've got friends that I open the new sets and play this format with. Then the basics are taken out, the winner decides which one of them has to "Fact or Fiction" the cards, and then the other person gets first pick of which pile to keep. =D
Admittedly, this can be a little frustrating when a $40 card and nothing else note-worthy gets pulled, but then it just becomes 1 vs 29 other cards. Still really fun.
Just remembered a game of Shards of Alara. My buddy and I decided start the life totals at 7 before we look at our opening hand(3 cards, btw.). My opener had Wild Nacatl, Forest, Mountain. His had a 3 drop and two lands... On the play, I lay my forest + Nacatl and pass. On turn 2, I play the mountain and bring him down to 5. Eot I cycle Viscera Dragger and draw a swamp. GG.
I think you're using tempo as a solely aggressive word. I literally use it for the speed of the game, no matter the speed. As long as I am furthering my plan every turn while setting back the opponent's, I call it tempo. Do I need a two drop creature to set up this situation? Certainly not. If instead of this two drop creature, I have a removal spell like Pacifism or even a Withdraw, Undo etc I am still hindering furthering my game plan.
When I look at UW, I see a color pairing that is more tempo-control oriented, at least compared to RG decks and the like. Sure, it can get the fast draw like many decks in Pauper can, but it's more of a value-oriented pairing. I look at Hussar Patrol as a card that will make more decks because it's really good in tempo and control, while being an okay curve-topper for aggro, especially in the mirror. I look at Duelist as a card that I will never play in a control deck unless I'm facing another blue deck with something like Flood or a Fireball/multiple damage splitting spells that I have to race against and want to get the beats in early, or an aggressive deck that just has the nuts and I definitely need another way not to die on turn 5-6.
Just because I don't think Duelist is a better card than Patrol for UW doesn't mean my curve will stat at 3.
I like tempo decks too, but in those, I want my creatures to be actually tempo-orientated. That would be Man-o'-War and Kor Hookmaster etc. In fact, I'm pretty sure the flash will be more relevant to a tempo archetype than the cheaper manacost on Duelist(hold open mana for Withdraw or Into the Roil). That is my assessment anyway, having played with both.
Patrol and Feeling. I cut Duelist for Patrol and I've been thrilled. Not to say that Duelist is a bad card, but it's only for straight up UW decks that want/need an early dude. It scales really poorly as the game goes on despite the number of 2 toughness creatures in Pauper and isn't powerful enough to include if you only have a few white or blue cards.
Hussar Patrol, on the other, scales much better as the game goes on and can actually combine really well with equipment. Last week I was able to flash it in, kill a dude, and on my turn play and equip Vulshock Morningstar. It made for a great couple of turns.
Duelist is better in the decks where you are a straight up split between UW so that you can play it turn two and actually care about something like that so early, but Patrol is better everywhere else, especially in a deck that is 3+ colors.
As for the second choice, I have not tried Trick, but the weird is the real deal. Luckily I had Razorfin Hunter in my cube, so it was an easy cut for me. Glad to have that garbage out of my cube.
And Desert is most certainly nowhere near a land version of Fireslinger. They have to be attacking, and it deals with it after damage is dealt. That's hardly at all like Fireslinger. Don't get me wrong, it's still in my cube and I think it's good enough to make the cut, I'm just not terribly excited about it because it can hamper playing your spells in the mid-game if you're playing two colors or more, obviously. And it's not the best land in Pauper. I'd rank it below bouncelands, gates, as well as Promenade/Rupture Spire. I'm just a big fan of casting spells and tempo more so than I am playing lands that can hurt my tempo despite acting like spells.
Again, having said all this, it's still in the cube. It's just not the best Pauper land; hyperbole gets us nowhere.
I'll say it's not super exciting most, but it actually does something. Tortured Existence, Disturbed Burial, Death Denied, any playable Scavenge creatures that might make it in. Granted, the cards I actually named are black, but still.
I mean, you're running a cycling land. Think about that. It's worse than a basic early in the game and it's big benefit is that late game it becomes another random card. Without Loam or something else to get consistent card draw out of them, they are just B: Draw a card...and is that a card you'd really run? The cycling lands are fine mid-game, I suppose, but they just don't do enough because I include them in their prospective color sections.
If instead of discarding it, you could sacrifice it, I would have no problem running them. That's pretty obvious I suppose. As it stands though, cycling lands do nothing your other cards can't do. They either tap for mana or become a random card + a mana.
Really, I understand the flexibility of a land + a minor spell, but they just don't stack up to actual spells once you put them in the color sections. And they're in the color sections anyway so I don't get suckered into playing entire cycles of crappy lands.
I think you're vastly overestimating the "raw power" of many of these lands. Now that I think about it, I might still be running the land that gives you a 0/1 plant. I kinda like that one because you can block with it or put an equipment on it...mostly blocking though. I'm not 100% if it's in the cube, but I could see going either way on it.
I think the only color lands I run are the Ponder land and Bojuka Bog. I cut all the rest a long ime go, because they always went really late in picks. They just watered the packs down.
Also, glad to see Hussar Patrol getting play. I just added it in mine and I have high hopes for it. Not unlike RTR limited, 4 toughness is critical in Pauper cube. Not that UW really needed another 4 drop, but it's better for the deck than what I cut.