For what it's worth, I just went 3-0-1 in Modern FNM (impressive, I know /sarcasm). I beat Affinity 2-0, drew against Lantern (final turn of game 2 had him dead unless he topdecked exactly Thoughtseize -- he did and I lost G2 without time for a G3. Could've been 2-0 =\ ), won 2-0 against UB Thopter-Sword with Whir (pretty cool list, actually), and finally 2-1 against Abzan Company. Not exactly the meta I was expecting -- there were a ton of control decks, especially Grixis. But still not bad. The 1 Snare was great, I played a Settle over the 4th Verdict that should probably be switched back, but everything else was great. The Jace I added to the main, as per BloodyRabbit's suggestion, was in fact amazing all day, and I believe it's going to be a mainstay now (as if it wasn't already for everyone but me).
I also got my last 2 foil Snow-Covered Islands, so now I'm rocking all foil Snow basics. =D
Against EldraTron Seas is awesome, IMHO more than against Green Tron, for the simple fact that they will sometimes just kill you with a huge Ballista if in the midgame you don’t deal with Tron. In the early, you just have to blank Caverns and utility lands, but don’t forget that it is also a cantrip which evade Chalice on one.
Against Affinity it’s been for me best card in the 75 right after wrath-effect. You win against them also BECAUSE of Seas, because you will otherwise lack the spot removals that splash colors would offer to you. You can still configurate the deck to win against them, but nit making the switch with Walls (useless cantrip vs Affinity).
I agree about Humans and I find it extremely good (on the play) or bad (on the draw) against Burn.
Seas isn't usually a gamewinner in any matchup (except against G Tron >:D ), but it's always at least good and cantrips. Even against Humans, if they don't have the T1 Vial, a Seas can seriously mess up their curve-out going late. I would definitely side it out, but that is exactly why Seas is a cornerstone of the deck -- it's rarely ever bad, and can punish greedy keeps/decks. I would never drop below 3, and I definitely prefer 4 main.
I thought about a main deck Clique, but I feel it much less powerful without the Burn spells, Quellers and the full set of Snapcasters. I like it in the sideboard. Maybe should move it to the main deck. Not sure. But I feel like it belongs better on the sideboard.
Secure the Wastes could be really good. Don't know what I could cut for it though.
I would tend to agree with you on Clique, except not for the same reasons. The point for playing it main isn't the same in UW as it is in Jeskai -- you literally just want a good clock, and you don't NEED burn spells to back it up -- we have tools enough to go long. It's sortof like a long-term tempo plan. The reason I don't love it maindeck is because of how fragile it is. I'd play Secure main over Clique in a heartbeat (actually, I already do!).
As for what you might cut for a Secure, my top-of-the-list candidates would be the 3rd Snappy and the Gideon, Ally.
Actually, a card I've been thinking of lately is Mutavault. It would be so sweet to just play a pair to beat down with (it would also really justify the 25th land too).
A lot of 5-0 lists, or lists people bring to the pro tour, are meta gamed heavily. If you're not seeing a lot of decks where wrath is good, or expect them to decline, then you don't have to play as many. But if you're looking for broad guidelines, it makes a lot of sense.
That's the main reason I'm inclined to cut the Walls and keep 3 sweepers main deck (and a 4th on the sideboard). There aren't that many Aggro decks on my field. I'm much more concerned about the U-Controls. There are a bunch of Jeskais, Blue Moons, UW Controls and some GDS, along with a lot of Big Mana Decks, that should be good match-ups. I might miss the Walls vs Burn and the few Aggros, but I also think that Snare and Snappy kind of cover that matches decently.
Wall is actually very good against URx like Jeskai and UR Moon. That said, I understand your thinking, especially considering you would be putting a 4th Wrath in the board. Maybe you should consider a flash threat like Clique or Secure, as they'd help you walk the line between tap-out and draw-go against the counterspell decks.
Even a couple of Think Twice sound pretty good in that meta, honestly.
IMHO, whenever you decide to cut Walls entirely from the maindeck, you should also run the fourth wrath (the last Verdict or a Settle), or you’ll fold too often to aggressive strategies. Also, I would make space AT LEAST for one Condemn in the aideboard, given that you can’t block anymore Guides/Swiftspear from Burn and such. I like having the third Snappy, also because you can use it to ambush a creature on turn two if your hand is too slow.
I support this advice. You really ought to play 4 Wraths if you're not on Walls. I suggest an Alliance over Condemn, tho, since it's typically higher impact.
In all my time playing this deck, the number of times I've dropped a match to Grixis Shadow has to be less than 10, probaly less than 5. I don't consider myself an amazing player, and I'm not willing to suggest all of my opponents were bad either. I also board out Seas in the matchup and settle in for a grind (I don't like Seas against opponents that play blue and have no manlands), so it's not like I pick up free wins from color screwing them.
Edit: It could just be because my game one is so heavily favorable -- I play mainboard Alliances, the 4th Verdict (maybe a Settle now, not sure), and a Secure to go along with the limited countermagic they have G1.
I played with a mainboard Clique for a little bit before I just switched to Secure for a better threat. I wanted extra wincons, and Secure is a better wincon than Clique. If I were looking for better tempo, I'd play Clique.
(About an AV version of UW) It could be the time for a come back. The issue, here, is the usual: if we're running more CA spells, what will we cut from the maindeck? I'm not a fan of shaving counterspells, because they are SO valuable right now. Maybe - maybe - I could see trimming the Walls, but then I'm oriented to play at least a pair of Spell Snare to prevent folding from aggressive strategies.
In my opinion, the flexible slots that are becoming staples in this metagame are: a) Spell Snare, because it’s very good right now. I used to hate it, and played 4-5 months without a single copy of it. But now, if you look at the top decks, every single one of them suffers Snare. More Snapcasters in Modern means that Snare is good. More Azcanta, it’s the same. More Storm? Yes, please (and my Storm win rate skyrocketed since I had them again in my sixty(one)). Against GB Tron they are incredibly useful, thanks to our manadenial plan taking Sylvan Scrying is a good play, and Collective Brutality is also annoying. Etcetera...
I have to begrudgingly agree about Spell Snare. I still think it's a bad card against about 50% of the field, but I also think it's close to the best card in the deck against the other 50%. I'm not packing a list without 3 of them (Snares), and it looks like you're on the same page. We might just disagree about it's sideboard potential. I'm sticking a minimum of 1 in the main, and 1 in the side, just not sure where the third goes.
As you can see, there actually wasn't really any discussion on Snare. There're lists referring offhand to Snare being good, starting with 2 copies, then moving up to 3. A small section on why Snare is good (because of Tron, Snapcaster Mage, Storm, and Azcanta; all of which aren't new -- even Azcanta's been on the scene for a little bit. In fact, it's the reason I added the 1st Snare to my maindeck again), and then all of the sudden we're not possibly playing a list with less than 3 in the 75?
I've been reading the comments. :/ I just don't think Snare is so good to be playing 3 copies -- they'll just be dead in your hand while you lose. I think the lists from the PT (and our lists beforehand) were right on the nail -- one copy. Maybe 2 for metagaming local shops.
If you feel otherwise, I am quite interested in your thoughts -- but they aren't in the pages yet.
I don't like playing snare, but it is amazing in our bad match ups (burn, storm). And you do lose a lot when people curve out especially when you're on the draw. There is justification to play it, but I don't want to play it on mtgo. It's the same thing with halo.
@annihilator you should play 25 lands if you don't want to be greedy
I do think Snare has its place, it's just a leap to go from "Snare is good now" to "let's play an almost-playset". Similar thing with Halo.
As for the land, I agree with you but I might decide to be greedy. What would you cut if you were to squeeze a land in there?
Okay, so when did playing a million Snares main become the "concensus best thing"? I reread the comments since the start of the PT and I honestly just don't follow -- all of the lists from the PT play 1 (except for like one list playing 2), and I'm all for that. The second is a little questionable, but it's not bad. But 3? Really...
Anyways, why is everyone high on Runed Halo now too? I've been playing with Blessed Alliances main in the same slot that Halo would take, and recently switched to 1 Alliance/1 Halo (no evaluation on that yet) but I've always felt Halo was better as a sideboard card. But 3 main? That's pretty out there too, so you guys really need to convince me.
As for a Condemn, I'm down to play a maindeck copy, but probably not over my Blessed Alliance, so we'll see.
2 Halos maindeck is better than a 1/1 split between main and board since they're better in game 1 (people rarely have enchantment destroying effects g1)
https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/ptrix/18-20-point-decklists-2018-02-03 Saito and Lee Shi Tian played the same list to 6-3-1. This is the hardest list for me to evaluate since its the furthest from the lists I've played. I wasnt impressed by Ancestral Vision when I tested it, greatly preferring Search for Azcanta. They had to remove their Gideons of the Trials and Juras as concession to two maindeck runed halos. Two Supreme Verdict / 1 Wrath of God split was good for the tournament with humans being the most popular deck and Grixis Death's Shadow being less popular.
It's interesting that Alex Majlaton's list (9-1) was most successful and played the typical 2 lil Gid/1 Jace AoT/1 big Gid split. Gabreil Nassif's list (the only 8-1-1 UW list) played a 1/1/1 split. Mingjun Ren, 7-1-2 record, played the 2/1/1 split. All of the AV lists are 6-2-2 (Tomuharo Saito, Lee Shi Tian). Especially with these lists playing only 3 mainboard Wraths, I'm not a fan.
Some interesting notes:
- All of the lists were playing at least 1 mainboard Clique, often 2.
- All of the lists played only two 2-mana hardcounters (Nassif played a Remand also, everyone else was on 1 Negate/1 Knot except Ren, who played 2 Leaks instead). This one was interesting to me since I always felt like the popular UW lists played too few 2-mana counters, but now we're down to 2? I play 4 or 5 on average.
- The AV lists didn't, but the more traditional lists all included at least 1 Snare too.
- Halo main was the craze this time around, only 1 list (Nassif) wasn't playing Halo.
- The top 2 performing lists (Majlaton and Nassif) were both on 25 lands, the rest were on 24.
- All lists played exactly 3 Cryptic Command.
- All lists played at least 1 Mystic Gate.
Alright folks, if you haven't watched PV vs Raph Levy (Jeskai vs Azorious) at the Pro Tour, then you definitely should - instant classic, lots of interesting lines. Raph Levy with maindeck Ancestral Visions, something I had already considered being quite good after the Bennyhillz lists were becoming quite popular. Another spiceball from Levy's list - two Runed Halo in the maindeck. Is he insane? Is he a genius? Discuss!
PS: Li-Shi Tian also on UW, one of my favourite pro players. I think there will be lots of great lists to study after this weekend, super excited!
Watched it over, and it really puts a lot of credibility to targeting W lands in the Jeskai matchup (at least with Runed Halos). A resolved lil' Gid would've been disaster for Paulo at any point, and I didn't realize until BloodyRabbit pointed out above that hitting W cuts off Helix too. Since you naturally want to be targeting Colonnades anyways, maybe hitting W sources is the best option.
Levy was also running Gideon, Ally. Not sure how I feel about that yet. Having both Halos main is odd to me too. One is pretty standard at this point, I guess the 2nd is for consistency? He also trimmed to 1 lil' Gid according to the commentators. Not sure exactly what world we're living in yet.
You're never going to keep them off white, they run as many white sources as we do LD, it's just not realistic.
Also, don't bring in surgical against Tron, they don't have anything worth hitting because non of thier cards do anything. Hitting a land is pointless because they will get to 10 Mana eventually anyways. There's no point in 0 for 1ing yourself in that match and once they are empty handed you're winning anyways which means you just want to deal with what they have now, not what they could draw into. The opposite is true of Shift, because if you hit a Valakut it's game over, but it's also fine to hit Shift and Titan, since without those our LD package makes Valakut laughable.
I must admit that I can't agree with most of this either. Slowing their clock to T6 and 7 by Surging a Tron land is so much better than not doing so, and you can lock the game away pretty easily with more counters in deck vs. threats in theirs, and can start messing with O-Stones to get the game over when you have enough counters available. I play Secure as well, so them eventually getting to 10 natural mana does NOT matter -- Ulamog eats a Path, I lose whatever they hit, and the game moves on. Plus with Cliques/Quellers from the board, etc.
Admittedly, closing out the game going long against Tron would be infinitely easier (pun intended) with White Sun's Zenith (so that you don't have to worry about O-Stone), but I've never been particularly inclined to play that in this deck. Not necessarily that it would be bad. In fact, it would prolly be better with Azcanta.
I think 2 is actually a pretty safe bet, maybe 3. The better question is do we consider playing miracles now?
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I also got my last 2 foil Snow-Covered Islands, so now I'm rocking all foil Snow basics. =D
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Seas isn't usually a gamewinner in any matchup (except against G Tron >:D ), but it's always at least good and cantrips. Even against Humans, if they don't have the T1 Vial, a Seas can seriously mess up their curve-out going late. I would definitely side it out, but that is exactly why Seas is a cornerstone of the deck -- it's rarely ever bad, and can punish greedy keeps/decks. I would never drop below 3, and I definitely prefer 4 main.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I would tend to agree with you on Clique, except not for the same reasons. The point for playing it main isn't the same in UW as it is in Jeskai -- you literally just want a good clock, and you don't NEED burn spells to back it up -- we have tools enough to go long. It's sortof like a long-term tempo plan. The reason I don't love it maindeck is because of how fragile it is. I'd play Secure main over Clique in a heartbeat (actually, I already do!).
As for what you might cut for a Secure, my top-of-the-list candidates would be the 3rd Snappy and the Gideon, Ally.
Actually, a card I've been thinking of lately is Mutavault. It would be so sweet to just play a pair to beat down with (it would also really justify the 25th land too).
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Wall is actually very good against URx like Jeskai and UR Moon. That said, I understand your thinking, especially considering you would be putting a 4th Wrath in the board. Maybe you should consider a flash threat like Clique or Secure, as they'd help you walk the line between tap-out and draw-go against the counterspell decks.
Even a couple of Think Twice sound pretty good in that meta, honestly.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I support this advice. You really ought to play 4 Wraths if you're not on Walls. I suggest an Alliance over Condemn, tho, since it's typically higher impact.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Edit: It could just be because my game one is so heavily favorable -- I play mainboard Alliances, the 4th Verdict (maybe a Settle now, not sure), and a Secure to go along with the limited countermagic they have G1.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
As you can see, there actually wasn't really any discussion on Snare. There're lists referring offhand to Snare being good, starting with 2 copies, then moving up to 3. A small section on why Snare is good (because of Tron, Snapcaster Mage, Storm, and Azcanta; all of which aren't new -- even Azcanta's been on the scene for a little bit. In fact, it's the reason I added the 1st Snare to my maindeck again), and then all of the sudden we're not possibly playing a list with less than 3 in the 75?
I've been reading the comments. :/ I just don't think Snare is so good to be playing 3 copies -- they'll just be dead in your hand while you lose. I think the lists from the PT (and our lists beforehand) were right on the nail -- one copy. Maybe 2 for metagaming local shops.
If you feel otherwise, I am quite interested in your thoughts -- but they aren't in the pages yet.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I do think Snare has its place, it's just a leap to go from "Snare is good now" to "let's play an almost-playset". Similar thing with Halo.
As for the land, I agree with you but I might decide to be greedy. What would you cut if you were to squeeze a land in there?
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Anyways, why is everyone high on Runed Halo now too? I've been playing with Blessed Alliances main in the same slot that Halo would take, and recently switched to 1 Alliance/1 Halo (no evaluation on that yet) but I've always felt Halo was better as a sideboard card. But 3 main? That's pretty out there too, so you guys really need to convince me.
As for a Condemn, I'm down to play a maindeck copy, but probably not over my Blessed Alliance, so we'll see.
Edit: Major Tourney List:
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Glacial Fortress
1x Mystic Gate
3x Field of Ruin
1x Ghost Quarter
4x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
5x Island
2x Plains
Removal (11)
4x Path to Exile
1x Blessed Alliance
2x Detention Sphere
3x Supreme Verdict
1x Settle the Wreckage
1x Spell Snare
2x Mana Leak
1x Negate
1x Logic Knot
3x Cryptic Command
Card Advantage/Selection (14)
4x Serum Visions
4x Spreading Seas
2x Search for Azcanta
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Snapcaster Mage
Finishers (3)
2x Gideon of the Trials
1x Secure the Wastes
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Dispel
1x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Runed Halo
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Celestial Purge
1x Negate
1x Disdainful Stroke
3x Spell Queller
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
It's interesting that Alex Majlaton's list (9-1) was most successful and played the typical 2 lil Gid/1 Jace AoT/1 big Gid split. Gabreil Nassif's list (the only 8-1-1 UW list) played a 1/1/1 split. Mingjun Ren, 7-1-2 record, played the 2/1/1 split. All of the AV lists are 6-2-2 (Tomuharo Saito, Lee Shi Tian). Especially with these lists playing only 3 mainboard Wraths, I'm not a fan.
Some interesting notes:
- All of the lists were playing at least 1 mainboard Clique, often 2.
- All of the lists played only two 2-mana hardcounters (Nassif played a Remand also, everyone else was on 1 Negate/1 Knot except Ren, who played 2 Leaks instead). This one was interesting to me since I always felt like the popular UW lists played too few 2-mana counters, but now we're down to 2? I play 4 or 5 on average.
- The AV lists didn't, but the more traditional lists all included at least 1 Snare too.
- Halo main was the craze this time around, only 1 list (Nassif) wasn't playing Halo.
- The top 2 performing lists (Majlaton and Nassif) were both on 25 lands, the rest were on 24.
- All lists played exactly 3 Cryptic Command.
- All lists played at least 1 Mystic Gate.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Watched it over, and it really puts a lot of credibility to targeting W lands in the Jeskai matchup (at least with Runed Halos). A resolved lil' Gid would've been disaster for Paulo at any point, and I didn't realize until BloodyRabbit pointed out above that hitting W cuts off Helix too. Since you naturally want to be targeting Colonnades anyways, maybe hitting W sources is the best option.
Levy was also running Gideon, Ally. Not sure how I feel about that yet. Having both Halos main is odd to me too. One is pretty standard at this point, I guess the 2nd is for consistency? He also trimmed to 1 lil' Gid according to the commentators. Not sure exactly what world we're living in yet.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I must admit that I can't agree with most of this either. Slowing their clock to T6 and 7 by Surging a Tron land is so much better than not doing so, and you can lock the game away pretty easily with more counters in deck vs. threats in theirs, and can start messing with O-Stones to get the game over when you have enough counters available. I play Secure as well, so them eventually getting to 10 natural mana does NOT matter -- Ulamog eats a Path, I lose whatever they hit, and the game moves on. Plus with Cliques/Quellers from the board, etc.
Admittedly, closing out the game going long against Tron would be infinitely easier (pun intended) with White Sun's Zenith (so that you don't have to worry about O-Stone), but I've never been particularly inclined to play that in this deck. Not necessarily that it would be bad. In fact, it would prolly be better with Azcanta.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.