It was a discussion point Humphrey brought up about a page or two ago. Essentially seeing if there is enough feedback to shift some cards that have been outright replaced, or bump the ones players see as worth more than they are.
It is a simple survey, for now. Just to see interest. If everyone is fine with things as is.. that is easier than giving and tallying opinions
Faithbender - Cubeable 3-3 vote. Unless we get another voter, I will leave it at Cubeable since Al is the creator, I give him tie-breaker.
1cc: No Changes
2cc: No changes
3cc: Reliquary Monk, Sanctum Custodian Borderline -> Bad
4cc:Elgaud Inquisitor Borderline-> Bad (It only makes 1 Spirit and 4cc for 2 Lifelink is OK in equip/auras) but it is just not enough at 4cc
5cc:Supply Line Cranes Cubeable -> Staple;Staunch Defenders -Bad > Borderline. It is comparable to the Paladin, and has direct, reliable, impact.
What we need to hammer out:
3cc 3/2's - What is the baseline? Borderline or Bad? Is there a different value for different colors?
Side Notes:
Seller of Songbirds vs. Sandsteppe Outcast - Interesting topic for later
Bolster in X/R decks. Sandcrafter Mage turn 3 after say Porcelain Legionnaire or other 3/1's is acceptable. Not great.
Well that can be done rather easily. We just create/salvage this thread with a 2 day discussion of a given category. Like when the votes for best cards every 2 years.
Petravark is a thing and noone is raving how great that is. Usually your 4cc's start to show muscle or are very versatile. The Innkeeper stalling them for a turn only works in corner-case scenarios. Raze is a card I would consider first. I will admit the Innkeeper is good against Karoo or single scource lands. But all land kill is.
That is my $0.02, I am willing to hear others, and change if I am in the wrong.
Fixed spelling errors. Many of them are trying to type fake names from memory.
I will change ratings in another day so that everyone can at least see what the comments were about. Of the comments so far, the Scavenger is probably the one i can agree with the most. And the Plus/Minus system is more of a commentary. I will have it adjusted for the final posting
EDIT: All done! For me, doing it this way was fine as I can separate and save work more frequently.
Summary
Black got crap, unless you need another Warren Pilferer
Blue, once again, got some great choices from Innistrad. I am shoving in Cruel Revival finally.
Green got Grapple, and that is on the heels of Pulse of Murasa
White has some more choices in key slots.
Red made out with 3 big playables: Otherworldly Outburst, Vilidan-Pack Outcast, Brazen Wolf. Add in Thermo-Alchemist and you have a good yield.
Cultist's Staff is a welcomed back-up/rebalance of Morningstar
Bloodbriar - Cubeable Borderline - Appropriately costed with an upside you may not have to work too hard for. See Terramorphic Expanse
Crossroads Consecrator - Bad - Either lose the mana cost in the activation, or the targeting restriction. There are lots of Humans though.
Grapple with the Past - Cubeable - It does so much at any point in the game. It can fix mana, or Raise Dead. Also an instant that is splashable.
It of the Horrid Swarm - Borderline Bad - The 3 bodies are good for Swarm archetype, and the variable cost is nice. But the twin 1/1's are mostly fodder, and coming along with a 4/4 seems outclassed unless it hits early with Emerge
Primal Druid - Borderline - It is a blocker with an upside, but it will never trigger when you need it to. Same Problems as Viridian Emissary, except it is not threatening.
Swift Spinner - Borderline - Green's Nephalia Seakite. Reach is worse than Flying though. Not many non-Blue Flash creatures though.
Ulvenwald Captive - Borderline - 2cc Mana-Acceleration is fine. It does not die to a ping. And then in the late-game it can become a reasonable body; Ulvenwald Abomination. All those things add up to a playable card.
Waxing Moon - Bad - Worth noting it gives ALL your creatures Trample. It is very limited in effectiveness since there are not that many playable Werewolves
Wolfkin Bond - Bad - Green's Knightly Valor. It gives 4 Power over 2 bodies for 5cc. But, Green is more efficient than that.
Make Mischief - Terrible - You can ping something, then put out a death-trigger ping. Not worth it. Just play Twin Bolt
Otherworldly Outburst - Cubeable - Red's Undying Evil. It targets ANY creature and then you get a 3/2 upon its death. It is like a rider spell, or an add-on trick
Prophetic Ravings - Borderline - Turning any creature into a Red Looter is 'meh'. However, it also gives Haste. So its low cost makes it versatile on creatures big and small.
Stensia Banquet - Bad - Tribal at best. But it also only hits players. There are an acceptable amount of BR Vampires, but getting more than 2 seems hard.
Stensia Innkeeper - Bad Borderline - Hill Giant with a 1 turn, 1 land lockdown. It is an attempt at a Midrange Tempo-hindering play, that just feels "Not Enough".
Thermo-Alchemist - Cubeable - It is low costed, and has a large enough rear to survive many mass sweepers. The ability targeting only players is fine as you will likely get 1-3 extra points from it in an average deck. And 5 damage over the game, from a 2cc, is more than most bodies can generate.
Vildin-Pack Outcast - Cubeable - One of top picks for Red's 5cc slot. Its front-side is great, and the back, Dronepack Kindred, is even better. It outclasses most other bodies
Olivia's Dragoon - Bad - Madness-enabler, and black has very few of those. But the ability is not worth a non-Madness Card.
Skirsdag Supplicant - Borderline - The activation cost is acceptable when you are ahead, but in a stalemate. The body at least is on par for keeping the stalemate as you lower life totals.
Strange Augmentation - Bad - Delirium required for any mileage, and even then it is a stat-only boost.
Succumb to Temptation - Bad Borderline - Worse than its sorcery counterparts as Black does not need pricier Divination-effects just for Instant speed's sake
It is a simple survey, for now. Just to see interest. If everyone is fine with things as is.. that is easier than giving and tallying opinions
Faithbender - Cubeable 3-3 vote. Unless we get another voter, I will leave it at Cubeable since Al is the creator, I give him tie-breaker.
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I do not disagree. I was giving the lurkers their last chance. We have a few who, have been silent through this review.
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1cc: No Changes
2cc: No changes
3cc: Reliquary Monk, Sanctum Custodian Borderline -> Bad
4cc:Elgaud Inquisitor Borderline-> Bad (It only makes 1 Spirit and 4cc for 2 Lifelink is OK in equip/auras) but it is just not enough at 4cc
5cc:Supply Line Cranes Cubeable -> Staple;Staunch Defenders -Bad > Borderline. It is comparable to the Paladin, and has direct, reliable, impact.
What we need to hammer out:
3cc 3/2's - What is the baseline? Borderline or Bad? Is there a different value for different colors?
Side Notes:
Seller of Songbirds vs. Sandsteppe Outcast - Interesting topic for later
Bolster in X/R decks. Sandcrafter Mage turn 3 after say Porcelain Legionnaire or other 3/1's is acceptable. Not great.
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SPEAK NOW OR WAIT TILL THE NEXT SET:
Faithbender Paladin - Cubeable or Borderline?
Al - Cubeable
Nighthydra - Borderline
Polycotton - Borderline
Humphrey - Borderline
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Also, starting with you top 5 'Ratings Changes for White Creatures'. If possible list the card and the new rating in BOLD so it is easier to discern.
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That is my $0.02, I am willing to hear others, and change if I am in the wrong.
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I have updated the listings. I hope we will one day upgrade Bloodbriar dor having enough Sac effects.
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I will change ratings in another day so that everyone can at least see what the comments were about. Of the comments so far, the Scavenger is probably the one i can agree with the most. And the Plus/Minus system is more of a commentary. I will have it adjusted for the final posting
EDIT: All done! For me, doing it this way was fine as I can separate and save work more frequently.
Summary
Black got crap, unless you need another Warren Pilferer
Blue, once again, got some great choices from Innistrad. I am shoving in Cruel Revival finally.
Green got Grapple, and that is on the heels of Pulse of Murasa
White has some more choices in key slots.
Red made out with 3 big playables: Otherworldly Outburst, Vilidan-Pack Outcast, Brazen Wolf. Add in Thermo-Alchemist and you have a good yield.
Cultist's Staff is a welcomed back-up/rebalance of Morningstar
Red>Blue>Green>White>Black
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Backwoods Survivalists -
BorderlineBad - Order of the Sacred Bell with an upside of Thundering Tanadon. Delirium is still hard to trigger.Bloodbriar -
CubeableBorderline - Appropriately costed with an upside you may not have to work too hard for. See Terramorphic ExpanseCrossroads Consecrator - Bad - Either lose the mana cost in the activation, or the targeting restriction. There are lots of Humans though.
Grapple with the Past - Cubeable - It does so much at any point in the game. It can fix mana, or Raise Dead. Also an instant that is splashable.
It of the Horrid Swarm -
BorderlineBad - The 3 bodies are good for Swarm archetype, and the variable cost is nice. But the twin 1/1's are mostly fodder, and coming along with a 4/4 seems outclassed unless it hits early with EmergePrey Upon - Reprint
Primal Druid - Borderline - It is a blocker with an upside, but it will never trigger when you need it to. Same Problems as Viridian Emissary, except it is not threatening.
Springsage Ritual - Terrible - 4 life is not worth 2 extra on Naturalize
Swift Spinner - Borderline - Green's Nephalia Seakite. Reach is worse than Flying though. Not many non-Blue Flash creatures though.
Ulvenwald Captive - Borderline - 2cc Mana-Acceleration is fine. It does not die to a ping. And then in the late-game it can become a reasonable body; Ulvenwald Abomination. All those things add up to a playable card.
Waxing Moon - Bad - Worth noting it gives ALL your creatures Trample. It is very limited in effectiveness since there are not that many playable Werewolves
Wolfkin Bond - Bad - Green's Knightly Valor. It gives 4 Power over 2 bodies for 5cc. But, Green is more efficient than that.
Woodcutter's Grit - Bad - Vines of Vastwood's splashable brother. Overcosted in comparison.
Woodland Patrol -
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Alchemist's Greeting -
BadTerrible- Flame Slash is just more efficient. And hitting only creatures is a rough choice for Red.Bold Impaler - Bad - Lavastep Raider, but with a worse creature type
Borrowed Hostility - Bad - Either ability is meh, combined for 3R it can be a good trick. But way too costly.
Brazen Wolves -
CubeableStaple - 4/3 on the attack is above-the-curve for a 3cc. Being splashable helps it a lot of 2-3 color aggro.Distemper of the Blood - Bad - Sorcery pump needs to give more. And only the Madness cost is a good price
Falkenrath Reaver - Bad - Vanilla Bears are vanilla. Yes, red does not have many. Do you really wanna fit this in?
Galvanic Bombardment - Terrible - Needs multiples, and does not hit players.
Make Mischief - Terrible - You can ping something, then put out a death-trigger ping. Not worth it. Just play Twin Bolt
Otherworldly Outburst - Cubeable - Red's Undying Evil. It targets ANY creature and then you get a 3/2 upon its death. It is like a rider spell, or an add-on trick
Prophetic Ravings - Borderline - Turning any creature into a Red Looter is 'meh'. However, it also gives Haste. So its low cost makes it versatile on creatures big and small.
Stensia Banquet - Bad - Tribal at best. But it also only hits players. There are an acceptable amount of BR Vampires, but getting more than 2 seems hard.
Stensia Innkeeper -
BadBorderline - Hill Giant with a 1 turn, 1 land lockdown. It is an attempt at a Midrange Tempo-hindering play, that just feels "Not Enough".Thermo-Alchemist - Cubeable - It is low costed, and has a large enough rear to survive many mass sweepers. The ability targeting only players is fine as you will likely get 1-3 extra points from it in an average deck. And 5 damage over the game, from a 2cc, is more than most bodies can generate.
Vildin-Pack Outcast - Cubeable - One of top picks for Red's 5cc slot. Its front-side is great, and the back, Dronepack Kindred, is even better. It outclasses most other bodies
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Cathar's Shield - Reprint
Cultist's Staff - Borderline (Plus) - An additional, and fairer, Vulshok Morningstar
Field Creeper - Terrible - Unless Scarecrow type is needed, this is garbage
Terrarion - Reprint
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Boon of Emrakul -
BorderlineBad - Aura of Nameless Inversion. If Auras matter, this may make the cut.Borrowed Malevolence - Bad - Overcosted combat trick that does not do enough
Cemetery Recruitment - Bad - Overcosted, and type dependent, Raise Dead
Certain Death - Terrible - 6cc kill spells are awful. And this is not a bargain either.
Gavony Unhallowed - Borderline
Cubeable- Having a solid starting body is good for creatures that need other effects to growGraf Rats - Bad** - Unless paired with its counterpart, Midnight Scavengers, it is vanilla garbage.
Midnight Scavengers -
Bad**Borderline - Worse Warren Pilferers. Does combo with Graf Rats well.Olivia's Dragoon - Bad - Madness-enabler, and black has very few of those. But the ability is not worth a non-Madness Card.
Skirsdag Supplicant - Borderline - The activation cost is acceptable when you are ahead, but in a stalemate. The body at least is on par for keeping the stalemate as you lower life totals.
Strange Augmentation - Bad - Delirium required for any mileage, and even then it is a stat-only boost.
Succumb to Temptation -
BadBorderline - Worse than its sorcery counterparts as Black does not need pricier Divination-effects just for Instant speed's sakeThraben Foulbloods - Borderline
(Minus)/Bad- Acceptable pre-Delirium stats. And once enabled it is Shatterskull Recruit.Wailing Ghoul - Bad - Self-milling Bane Alley Blackguard. Zombie too.
Weirded Vampire - Bad - Either a Hill Giant, or a Madness Centaur Courser. Neither are exciting in Black.
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