we don't need stony silence against affinity since the MU is very positive as it is. i don't know if i want to SB it just for tron. probably i prefer sowing salt or molten rain (burn plan is good against tron). i used to play stony silence, too, but if i did not see it by t2 it became pretty useless. plus, they board in enchantment disruption.
Yeah that's pretty much what I've been finding out. I haven't missed the card at all.
One thing I did notice against GR Tron though was that Sowing Salt is pretty bad actually. Every Tron player knows they get destroyed by it, so they play around it pretty well. So I went back and put in 2x Molten Rain. That worked a lot better. Molten Rain played on curve seems to really slow them down. Especially when you Snapcaster it later. It might not seem like it slows them down enough, but I found that it did.
It's really looking like I'm going to be taking Stony Silence out of my sideboard.
Again, my main issue is figuring out whether I want to play Stone Rain, or Molten Rain.
Stony silence doesn't just win by itself the affinity match up, it also works wonders vs tron.
I dont know about you, but tron is heavily played were i live, so a turn 2 silence cuts off their search, cycling and board wipes, making the match a walk in the park, unless they can magically assemble tron on t3 from their hand, with a karn, and i dont happen to have a leak on my hand.
Pretty unlikely scenario, tough it has happened once or twice.
I figured Stone Rain would be enough to set them back. I'll test more against GR Tron.
how about we stop worrying about a non-existent deck?
I would like some insight on not running Stony Silence in the board.
I haven't noticed it be detrimental to my game plan against Affinity. I've now played 8 games against Affinity with no Stony Silence, with a record of 5-3
Being an 8rack play I can tell you for sure that Bogles does run Leyline. That said, whether they WILL use leyline vs UWR is another matter. And even if they saw Flare in game 2, I still dont think that they would risk Mulliganing to get to it on game 3.
They won't mulligan to it, that's silly.
Every Boggles deck I've played has sided in Leyline against me, and it was really tough. EE was the only out I had against them. It's a really tough matchup for us. I'm running EE and Wrath in the board now, along with 2 Wear//Tear, so it should be a tad bit easier now. As well as Stone Rain being pretty good against a low land count deck. Still never feel amazing about the deck when I run into it though.
Are you suggesting they are actually going to EXPECT Celestial Flare? Whatever, point is moot. The guy asked for a card that was good vs Bogles and was thankful for the answer of Celestial Flare. I could say here UWR Midrange is a great deck and derps would tell me I'm wrong just to argue a point.
No one is arguing a point. It's been a very nice discussion. Don't ruin that. Celestial Flare is a complete game winning card against Boggles, everyone agrees with that point. But there is a reason that Boggles dedicates four (4!!) sideboard slots to Leyline of Sanctity, her name is Liliana of the Veil. Celestial Flare gets caught up in the crossfire towards their hate against Liliana.
If I'm playing Boggles I'm bringing in Leyline of Sanctity against UWR Control/Midrange. Burn is a very viable wincon for both decks, and limiting wincons is a very real strategy. It puts a whole lot of dead cards in our deck.
Those are 2 very good reasons why you shouldn't be running Celestial Flare.
Stone Rain vs Molten Rain, which one do you guys like more? Is the 2 damage worth the extra R casting cost? Sometimes 1RR is difficult to put together in a 3 color deck, and other times it's not. I can't make up my mind.
Replaced Sowing Salt with Molten Rain, and added 1x Wear//Tear, and 1x Molten Rain in place of Aven Mindcensor.
Now I'm wondering if I can just remove Stony Silence from the entire SB now. If I do I can run 1x Damping Matrix, and 1 more something else. Maybe another Wear//Tear.
Everyone keeps saying engineered explosives. I don't know what boggle decks you guys play but most have 4-6 copies of totem armor enchants. Even if the enchant has a cmc of 1 the creature and other (non cmc 1) enchants survive the explosives. totem armor is slightly annoying...
Almost all of the enchantments they run are 1cmc. Sure they can just replay Rancor, but it slows them down quite a bit. Especially when Boggles runs such little lands (Molten rain, **** yeah). They get to keep their creatures, but now he's swinging for a lot less than he was before.
Boggles has been an interesting matchup for me as well, but I always found that if I can Engineered Explosives for 1 I'm in a pretty great spot after that.
Just played a few great games against UWR Control, and Stormbreath Dragon puts in a lot of work. Not at all disappointed by putting him in the SB instead of another Thundermaw Hellkite.
So I was wrong about Cryptic Command. It's fantastic. Mystic Gate really helped a lot when I drew it to play it as well. Love it.
Another big winner is definitely Threads of Disloyalty. I forced a Jund deck into -2ing his Lili to kill the Goyf I stole from him, allowing me to drop a Geist and win the game.
However, I think I need a little more against Affinity. Any suggestions? Aven Mindcensor definitely underperformed at times, but when it worked it worked REALLY well.
Yeah that's pretty much what I've been finding out. I haven't missed the card at all.
One thing I did notice against GR Tron though was that Sowing Salt is pretty bad actually. Every Tron player knows they get destroyed by it, so they play around it pretty well. So I went back and put in 2x Molten Rain. That worked a lot better. Molten Rain played on curve seems to really slow them down. Especially when you Snapcaster it later. It might not seem like it slows them down enough, but I found that it did.
It's really looking like I'm going to be taking Stony Silence out of my sideboard.
Again, my main issue is figuring out whether I want to play Stone Rain, or Molten Rain.
I figured Stone Rain would be enough to set them back. I'll test more against GR Tron.
I would like some insight on not running Stony Silence in the board.
I haven't noticed it be detrimental to my game plan against Affinity. I've now played 8 games against Affinity with no Stony Silence, with a record of 5-3
Why not both? Insurance is always great.
They won't mulligan to it, that's silly.
Every Boggles deck I've played has sided in Leyline against me, and it was really tough. EE was the only out I had against them. It's a really tough matchup for us. I'm running EE and Wrath in the board now, along with 2 Wear//Tear, so it should be a tad bit easier now. As well as Stone Rain being pretty good against a low land count deck. Still never feel amazing about the deck when I run into it though.
No one is arguing a point. It's been a very nice discussion. Don't ruin that. Celestial Flare is a complete game winning card against Boggles, everyone agrees with that point. But there is a reason that Boggles dedicates four (4!!) sideboard slots to Leyline of Sanctity, her name is Liliana of the Veil. Celestial Flare gets caught up in the crossfire towards their hate against Liliana.
If I'm playing Boggles I'm bringing in Leyline of Sanctity against UWR Control/Midrange. Burn is a very viable wincon for both decks, and limiting wincons is a very real strategy. It puts a whole lot of dead cards in our deck.
Those are 2 very good reasons why you shouldn't be running Celestial Flare.
Stone Rain vs Molten Rain, which one do you guys like more? Is the 2 damage worth the extra R casting cost? Sometimes 1RR is difficult to put together in a 3 color deck, and other times it's not. I can't make up my mind.
I think I'd be quite confident if I didn't even run it in my SB at a big event.
More testing is needed, of course.
Sideboard (15)
1x Batterskull
2x Celestial Purge
2x Counterflux
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Molten Rain
1x Path to Exile
1x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Threads of Disloyalty
2x Wear / Tear
1x Wrath of God
It's possible that Molten Rain wants to be Stone Rain?
What else is Celestial Flare good against, though? Especially since Boggles is tier 2 at best. Seems weird to SB something for a Tier 2 deck.
So I changed up my SB. Aven Mindcensor just felt like he wasn't doing a whole lot.
3x Arid Mesa
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Mystic Gate
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
2x Tectonic Edge
3x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
2x Mana Leak
3x Path to Exile
3x Remand
4x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Restoration Angel
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Celestial Purge
2x Counterflux
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Molten Rain
1x Path to Exile
2x Stony Silence
1x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Threads of Disloyalty
1x Wear / Tear
Replaced Sowing Salt with Molten Rain, and added 1x Wear//Tear, and 1x Molten Rain in place of Aven Mindcensor.
Now I'm wondering if I can just remove Stony Silence from the entire SB now. If I do I can run 1x Damping Matrix, and 1 more something else. Maybe another Wear//Tear.
Almost all of the enchantments they run are 1cmc. Sure they can just replay Rancor, but it slows them down quite a bit. Especially when Boggles runs such little lands (Molten rain, **** yeah). They get to keep their creatures, but now he's swinging for a lot less than he was before.
Just played a few great games against UWR Control, and Stormbreath Dragon puts in a lot of work. Not at all disappointed by putting him in the SB instead of another Thundermaw Hellkite.
mox opal and springleaf work well too though
I sided out 3 Remands and 2 Mana leaks for 2 Stony Silence, 1 EE, 1 PtE, and 1 Threads of Disloyalty.
Another big winner is definitely Threads of Disloyalty. I forced a Jund deck into -2ing his Lili to kill the Goyf I stole from him, allowing me to drop a Geist and win the game.
However, I think I need a little more against Affinity. Any suggestions? Aven Mindcensor definitely underperformed at times, but when it worked it worked REALLY well.
3x Arid Mesa
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Mystic Gate
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
2x Tectonic Edge
3x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
2x Mana Leak
3x Path to Exile
3x Remand
4x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Restoration Angel
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Batterskull
2x Celestial Purge
2x Counterflux
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Path to Exile
1x Sowing Salt
2x Stony Silence
1x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Threads of Disloyalty