Gozer wasn't the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. The Stay Puft Marshmallow Man was the Destructor Form assumed by Gozer. It's more like an avatar. In the end of the first movie, Stay Puft is destroyed - but Gozer is just banished.
I have no idea why D_V would claim Gozer if he isn't Gozer.
Behaviorally, I still think Riku is slightly worse than D_V. But D_V certainly has scummy behavior, including the problem that Highroller noted about their stance on Terry.
They're both taking different variations on aggro stances, which I dislike on principle and probably makes it harder for me to evaluate them. I kind of want to think they're both scum, but that would mean they've been faking that back-and-forth pretty convincingly.
Here's my thought on the right choice here: D_V has more interactions and associatives. We know D_V has a power role - and while I'd guess that all scum probably have some extra powers (given the strength of town), Riku still has the possibility of being just a goon.
I also want to settle the flavor thing. I think D_V's flip will make it clear whether that is a solid line this game or not.
The difference in behaviorals is small enough that the context leans it to D_V.
vote D_V
I'll try to post at least once a day through Christmas but I expect my time for in-depth reads will be lower.
Slimer has to be Ecto. That’s why I’m iffy on Kami and leery on Vez’s pro Kami-ness.
I already said that certain things will fail on me. I am Ecto, but my defense clearly trumped whatever you were trying to do.
Now, if you're saying your ability has something like "unstoppable vs. Ecto", then I have no idea what's going on.
@Highroller: slow your roll (pun intended). It's only been a day since the Terry flip. We have over a week to deadline. It takes time to evaluate things, and we have multiple things (like Riku) going on.
This is exactly why it is a town mindset. Because of what you are trying to do right now. There were exactly 2 responses I could have to you asking Tom why he thinks I'm town. 1) The one I had, which was to understand why you don't think I'm town or 2) Asking you why you think I'm town. I chose the first and you twist it. If I had used the second, you could do the same.
The towniest response would be none at all, which you simply reject as not an option.
Even if you think you have a good read on Tom, interfering with others getting a read is detrimental. At the very least, in that case, you could have waited until Tom had time to give me a response before you jumped in your own defense.
But I'll ask again because you avoided it, Why do you think I'm not town? And if you do think I'm town (which you appear to be trying to say you did prior to me jumping in) you should outline why.
I had you at neutral, because I had no significant read yet. This conversation is pushing my read downward (though only slightly, because I acknowledge you could simply have a highly different view of Mafia strategy.)
I think its very appropriate for town to think about their posts impact on how they are read. Its pretty townie not to want to cause the town a mislynch. ETR is taking the most townie mindset a player can. He's posting and then defending attacks on him as they come up, he isn't limiting his posts to appear more townie etc.
Okay, let me break it down again.
I was trying to get a read on Tom's thought process. I was trying to figure out why Tom showed a certainty. Because that can be just town being sure of a read - but sometimes it's a scumslip showing they know too much, or it's an attempt by scum to cover for a buddy without having good reasoning behind it. I was hoping to find something in tom's reactions that could show me which of those it is.
The point was not to investigate EtR, it was to investigate Tom. That investigative attempt is now hopelessly muddled because of all the sidetracks; this is why it's generally recommended not to answer questions for other people. You giving me reasons why EtR is townie doesn't help.
What other direction is there? We're playing a game where it's the mafia's job to try and raise doubt on townies. They can't do that with a hammer. It has to be done with finesse and over time to sow doubt. I'm ensuring that I address anything that calls me into question.
This is not a town mindset. Town should be focused on the town's job, which is finding and killing mafia. Getting suspected along the way is fine. Mafia is the side focused on surviving and avoiding suspicion.
I didn't say that Tom was wrong, I asked why he was certain - because town usually shouldn't be certain of things, barring mechanical information or obvious clears. I was investigating tom's alignment. I dislike that you seem to care more about what people think of you than about figuring out Tom.
Speaking of which. Tom. You still haven't answered the question.
I looked back at Terry and didn't see any useful new associatives with the flip.
I've thought Riku was scummy for a while but the speed of this is giving me pause.
Riku:
I'm more than happy to lynch D_V, but I want to tell you that trying to break games through flavor etc is boring.
If you aren't voting him for flavor, then why are you voting him?
At the very least, everyone who isn't currently voting someone should vote or explain themselves.
I'd prefer no extension; games go long enough as it is.
@zdtsd: ignoring the claim, what do you think of D_V behaviorally?
I have no idea why D_V would claim Gozer if he isn't Gozer.
They're both taking different variations on aggro stances, which I dislike on principle and probably makes it harder for me to evaluate them. I kind of want to think they're both scum, but that would mean they've been faking that back-and-forth pretty convincingly.
Here's my thought on the right choice here: D_V has more interactions and associatives. We know D_V has a power role - and while I'd guess that all scum probably have some extra powers (given the strength of town), Riku still has the possibility of being just a goon.
I also want to settle the flavor thing. I think D_V's flip will make it clear whether that is a solid line this game or not.
The difference in behaviorals is small enough that the context leans it to D_V.
vote D_V
I'll try to post at least once a day through Christmas but I expect my time for in-depth reads will be lower.
Now, if you're saying your ability has something like "unstoppable vs. Ecto", then I have no idea what's going on.
@Highroller: slow your roll (pun intended). It's only been a day since the Terry flip. We have over a week to deadline. It takes time to evaluate things, and we have multiple things (like Riku) going on.
Even if you think you have a good read on Tom, interfering with others getting a read is detrimental. At the very least, in that case, you could have waited until Tom had time to give me a response before you jumped in your own defense.
I had you at neutral, because I had no significant read yet. This conversation is pushing my read downward (though only slightly, because I acknowledge you could simply have a highly different view of Mafia strategy.)
I was trying to get a read on Tom's thought process. I was trying to figure out why Tom showed a certainty. Because that can be just town being sure of a read - but sometimes it's a scumslip showing they know too much, or it's an attempt by scum to cover for a buddy without having good reasoning behind it. I was hoping to find something in tom's reactions that could show me which of those it is.
The point was not to investigate EtR, it was to investigate Tom. That investigative attempt is now hopelessly muddled because of all the sidetracks; this is why it's generally recommended not to answer questions for other people. You giving me reasons why EtR is townie doesn't help.
I didn't say that Tom was wrong, I asked why he was certain - because town usually shouldn't be certain of things, barring mechanical information or obvious clears. I was investigating tom's alignment. I dislike that you seem to care more about what people think of you than about figuring out Tom.
Speaking of which. Tom. You still haven't answered the question.
I looked back at Terry and didn't see any useful new associatives with the flip.
I've thought Riku was scummy for a while but the speed of this is giving me pause.
Riku:
If you aren't voting him for flavor, then why are you voting him?
Ugh. I was wrong on terry. Don't know if that gives me useful interaction analysis or not. Need to review there.
@Rhand: Why did you want Vaimes specifically to fire?
What is it about EtR's posts that makes you think he's town?