D_V: Quite simply, you're claiming that EtR was more unreasonable than you, but I don't agree with that description.
And to be very clear: I'm not telling you what you do is *****. I am specifically not saying that. I would describe that as an insult, and I am specifically trying to not insult you.
Any drafter of any legal document would approach it this way
No one here is drafting a legal document.
Look, I get that you hate me KA.
This is incorrect.
I get you don't like my post style.
This is correct.
I just find your argument facetious, degrading to me and just stoking the flames.
Disagreement with you doesn't mean hating you. It doesn't mean degrading you. It doesn't mean insulting you.
Specifically a huge part of what I dislike about your posting style is that you rarely differentiate between the two - disagreement and insult. When you disagree with someone, you freely mix insults with disagreement and use insults as the means to convey your disagreement. Conversely, when you receive disagreement, you react in a way that appears as if you received an insult. But disagreement and insults don't need to be the same thing. When I disagree with you I am not insulting you. When others disagree with you they are, generally, not insulting you.
"Hey, your words could be interpreted in a way you didn't mean" is not degrading to you.
D_V's attack on ETR is unreasonable. "Role" is commonly used to include flavor.
And though I don't think it's super important, I can see what ETR is saying with the question being ambiguous.
D_V: you are asking: "What [is it] about the claimed roles [that would make it so that they] can't exist together?" In other words: "why don't you think those roles can exist together?"
ETR is pointing out that it can be filled in differently: "What about [the fact that] the claimed roles can't exist together?" In other words: "this is a reminder that the claimed roles can't exist together."
Tubba: Disagree on the neutral read with EOD2. Two reasons. One, Neutrals almost always have survival as an explicit or implicit win condition. EOD2 doesn't match with someone who needs to live. Yes, he got away with it this time, but barely. Two, neutrals rarely want to muddy the water. Neutrals often want to maintain mystery about themselves, but they don't want to arbitrarily generate confusion for the town; that just leads to a mafia win.
The only reason for a neutral to push specifically in that direction is if they're, like, an SK and are worried that the town is doing too well to the point of killing *all* the mafia, and even then the SK is often fine with it (since it means they don't have to worry about getting randomly NK'ed).
I'd still lynch DV, he's the most likely wolf off-wagon.
You think ETR is town because....?
Also have you noticed that none of the wagons you brought up are not really viable anymore? Or are you literally not playing the game.
I don't understand where this can be coming from. Those three wagons - zd, you and riku - are the current three vote forerunners, have been since the end of the last Day, and were at K-1 or K-2 at various times. If anything, those are the most viable wagons.
It feels like you're trying to get people to back off the wagon from pure assertiveness. I understand why you're trying to do that for yourself (in fact I can understand that regardless of alignment) - but why zd and riku?
Like I haven't been a viable wagon since the start, and nobody is voting me anymore other than the two players that have death gripped their vote to me. zdtsd's wagon has been fluctuating, I'm hoping it will get smaller and Ruma has one vote.
One vote.
So, what are you talking about here?
Um, what reality indeed? This is the latest votecount I see:
I'd still lynch DV, he's the most likely wolf off-wagon.
You think ETR is town because....?
Also have you noticed that none of the wagons you brought up are not really viable anymore? Or are you literally not playing the game.
I don't understand where this can be coming from. Those three wagons - zd, you and riku - are the current three vote forerunners, have been since the end of the last Day, and were at K-1 or K-2 at various times. If anything, those are the most viable wagons.
It feels like you're trying to get people to back off the wagon from pure assertiveness. I understand why you're trying to do that for yourself (in fact I can understand that regardless of alignment) - but why zd and riku?
Actually strike that last part. I'd misread, I thought Vaimes moved a vote. In this case Vaimes made some posts and you moved the vote, not the same thing.
Damn that Fuwa readlist is on point. The first 9 reads are all town in my opinion. I really doubt that scum makes that post before everythinf happened.
...a single readlist is enough for you to flip from currently-voting to townread?
In particular, that's a really weak "on point". Terry is near the bottom but flipped town. Rodemy, the flipped scum, is just barely in the scum section. Two of the four flipped townies are solidly middle in the neutral section.
I'm disliking this pattern where someone shifts a vote and you jump over. It's happened unusually often this game.
Did this game need this role to be town? I'm unsure. Protection isn't something that is needed in a game, its helpful for sure.
Just based on flavorwise I am more worried about KA's role, but just not today or even tomorrow. I'm not a fan of the behavior of the player for sure, and they just jump shipped off my wagon, when in my mind they should have doubled down. Ehh IDK.
I don't feel strongly that Riku is scum, but I really, really want the slot flipped.
I'm begging anybody with firepower, please. Flip it.
Why?
I am also interested in an answer to this question.
Thinking about zdtsd. Someone said they didn't believe the existence of a multi-slimer and a multi-cocooner - but for me it's kind of the opposite; knowing that multi- mechanics exist for my role, I find it slightly more plausible that a multi-cocooner is a thing.
I still don't think the D_V-zdtsd interaction is faked. So it's not S/S.
@Ka: You can agree that DV is in another category from all those other people.
No. If I had to make groups of those 5, it would be [DV, riku, zdtsd] and [you, silver] - the former have had major wagons, the latter have not. So explain why DV is in a different category.
I put myself in the same category as I defended DV a lot and had some interactions and I understand if someone believes we are scum together. The usual suspects are the lurkers or ztd who is the sights of almost everyone. A ztd, silver or Ruma lynch will probably pass much more easily than a lynch on DV yet EtR has him as scum without putting much work into it. It's simply not a believable read.
What does lynchability have to do with scumminess? I have people as scumreads all the time even when I don't think I can ever get a lynch on them.
Separately: why do you think DV is harder to lynch? He's been at L-1 and he's currently at L-2.
Hey
I was at L one because of my own self vote. I know you have an irrational hatred for me, but don't let it make you not see the facts.
I do not have an irrational hatred for you and I do not play based on personal prejudices. Please do not make such attacks in future.
@Ka: You can agree that DV is in another category from all those other people.
No. If I had to make groups of those 5, it would be [DV, riku, zdtsd] and [you, silver] - the former have had major wagons, the latter have not. So explain why DV is in a different category.
I put myself in the same category as I defended DV a lot and had some interactions and I understand if someone believes we are scum together. The usual suspects are the lurkers or ztd who is the sights of almost everyone. A ztd, silver or Ruma lynch will probably pass much more easily than a lynch on DV yet EtR has him as scum without putting much work into it. It's simply not a believable read.
What does lynchability have to do with scumminess? I have people as scumreads all the time even when I don't think I can ever get a lynch on them.
Separately: why do you think DV is harder to lynch? He's been at L-1 and he's currently at L-2.
This part of your reads make no sense. You have all the usual suspects plus me and DV.
Why do you think silvercrys is less scummy than me or dv?
Explain why the rest are the usual suspects, and you and DV aren't. Especially considering DV has been at L-1 or L-2 for a long time now.
That's not the problem. The problem is that he lists the 5 most lynchable people as scum. The reads are too safe. Even so having me and DV above silver and ruma, but below ztd makes no sense. Ztd is never scum with me or DV.
For me it shows that EtR is just trying to push for a lynch instead of going out and making some serious statements.
You didn't really answer my question. What is it that made you make two groups, "the usual suspects" and "me and DV"?
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And to be very clear: I'm not telling you what you do is *****. I am specifically not saying that. I would describe that as an insult, and I am specifically trying to not insult you.
Specifically a huge part of what I dislike about your posting style is that you rarely differentiate between the two - disagreement and insult. When you disagree with someone, you freely mix insults with disagreement and use insults as the means to convey your disagreement. Conversely, when you receive disagreement, you react in a way that appears as if you received an insult. But disagreement and insults don't need to be the same thing. When I disagree with you I am not insulting you. When others disagree with you they are, generally, not insulting you.
"Hey, your words could be interpreted in a way you didn't mean" is not degrading to you.
And though I don't think it's super important, I can see what ETR is saying with the question being ambiguous.
D_V: you are asking: "What [is it] about the claimed roles [that would make it so that they] can't exist together?" In other words: "why don't you think those roles can exist together?"
ETR is pointing out that it can be filled in differently: "What about [the fact that] the claimed roles can't exist together?" In other words: "this is a reminder that the claimed roles can't exist together."
Tubba: Disagree on the neutral read with EOD2. Two reasons. One, Neutrals almost always have survival as an explicit or implicit win condition. EOD2 doesn't match with someone who needs to live. Yes, he got away with it this time, but barely. Two, neutrals rarely want to muddy the water. Neutrals often want to maintain mystery about themselves, but they don't want to arbitrarily generate confusion for the town; that just leads to a mafia win.
The only reason for a neutral to push specifically in that direction is if they're, like, an SK and are worried that the town is doing too well to the point of killing *all* the mafia, and even then the SK is often fine with it (since it means they don't have to worry about getting randomly NK'ed).
Um, what reality indeed? This is the latest votecount I see:
Did the mod make a post I can't see or something?
It feels like you're trying to get people to back off the wagon from pure assertiveness. I understand why you're trying to do that for yourself (in fact I can understand that regardless of alignment) - but why zd and riku?
D_V literally self voted and was 1 vote away from dying because of it. How does that not match this description?
In particular, that's a really weak "on point". Terry is near the bottom but flipped town. Rodemy, the flipped scum, is just barely in the scum section. Two of the four flipped townies are solidly middle in the neutral section.
I'm disliking this pattern where someone shifts a vote and you jump over. It's happened unusually often this game.
Thinking about zdtsd. Someone said they didn't believe the existence of a multi-slimer and a multi-cocooner - but for me it's kind of the opposite; knowing that multi- mechanics exist for my role, I find it slightly more plausible that a multi-cocooner is a thing.
I still don't think the D_V-zdtsd interaction is faked. So it's not S/S.
Separately: why do you think DV is harder to lynch? He's been at L-1 and he's currently at L-2.