It's possible that it could be a sideboard card, but I don't necessarily see it as mainboardable. And even then, against Tron, maybe we just want Mindcensor at 3 mana?
Relatively stock list, looks good. I'd say the most interesting thing is the lack of Ghost Quarter/Tec Edge, and in the inclusion of Desolate Lighthouse. 25 lands also seems a bit much, especially with lighthouse and Visions.
I've been considering cutting the LD land slot for a while. At least in my meta, it isn't really needed.
I lost to 1-2 Redless Jund (basically Jund, but without the red cards and playing Eldrazi instead), beat Grixis Control 2-0, beat BG Zombies 2-0 (basically Innistrad/RTR standard zombies deck) and beat UB Thopter Tezz 2-1. Deck's great, and I love having access to Cryptic. I played almost this same list (only like 2 cards are different) last Friday and finished 3-1 as well, losing to Blue Moon (a match that I should have won, but I mistakenly fetched Island instead of Plains and got punished), and beating Esper Control, Jund and Bring to Light Kiki.
Your reasoning for #1 doesn't entirely make sense. Remand still has the capability to stop spells like Leak does. If your opponent casts a 3 mana spell with 3 mana open, you can Leak it, and the get to resolve their spell, or you can Remand it, and draw a card, and they get to resolve their spell. One of those is definitely better than the other. There are some scenarios where it doesn't work out like that, obviously, but there area a lot of scenarios where Remand is better.
Okay guys, I would love some feedback on my list, its a relatively run-of-the-mill geist list with just a few tweaks here and there, and would like the comunity's opinion on a few things
So for starters, I would like feedback on the following aspects-
1- Mana Leak vs Remand- I know the community is very much at odds on this, with people advocating strongly for both sides. I personally REALLY like remand, but I dont think I've given leak enough testing (for the same reason that I love remand. ESPECIALLY in conjuction with snapcaster mage <3) But Im open to try it. Should I run a split? or 4 of one (I personally think comitting to 1 over the other is probably better, but its just a hunch, I dont have any reasoning to back that up) So I guess I want to be persuaded, why run one over the other, and why run a split? (or maybe 3 leak 1 logic knot?)
2- Spell snare- In my playtesting, this card has really over performed. I know some of you guys are cutting it, but I have no intentions of doing so, to be honest. Yeah, it seems like its too narrow, but when it actually comes down to it, there are just SO many relevant 2 mana spells in modern, and I dont want to leave home without spell snare. Do I leave it in? Or is there something you guys will do to persuade me that theres better stuff I could be running in that slot?
3- Lightning Helix- Im running 3, and have been running 3 from the very start. I see a lot of you, if not most of you, running the full 4. I haven't found myself wishing for a 4th helix, but is there an argument for it? What would even be worth cutting for a 4th helix?
4- Electrolyze- I used to run 2, and I LOVED the card. Now that I cut it down to 1, I feel like I never see the card when I want it, and when I do see it I end up just throwing it at their face EOT to cycle it. Cut it? Go back to 2? Leave it at 1?
5- My manabase- 25 lands, or 24, and why? I hate missing land drops, but if 24 lands feels fine Ill gladly trim one (if I did, which one?) Also, do you guys think the manabase looks fine, or are there any glaring (or even not so glaring) issues you guys see it?
6- My sideboard- I havent had any issues with Keranos myself, but I see what you guys are getting at. Is Elspeth SC actually considerably better? I run 2 Molten Rains because I absolutely detest tron, am I wrong in doing so? I would also like to find a place for RIP and Grafdigger's cage, do I run one or the other or both? Living end and dredge are both miserable matchups, but I dont know what to cut to hate these out, If I even want to. (Also 2 dispels have felt great, amazing in mirror matches, good against chord/coco decks, overall, I'd definitely say they've put their weight as a surprisingly broad answer, but should I cut one for more "silver bullet" cards?) Any other input and advice on sideboard would be awesome.
7- Things Ive been wanting to play around with- 2 Pia and Kira Nalaar, or 2 Kitchen finks (If anything I would add 2x of one or the other, not both. I think these cards could do some cool stuff with the deck, and they synergize well with resto angels. Might be something to try depending on meta?) elspeth, knight-errant- I think she would be a good plaeswalker as a 1-of in the maindeck to help close out the game, but at the same time, it might be a little too "win more," maybe? (I think having a deck with 2 k finks and 1 elpseth in there could be awesome though, letting you mighty leap the Geists and the Finks for some nasty beats. However this would probably cut the Vendilion Cliques and I dont know if I want to do that)
Any other feedback and suggestions in general would be very much welcome and appreciated, thanks in advance.
1 - I have been playing a Control list for the past couple of weeks that ran 4 Remand and 2 Leaks. Remand felt absolutely fine. Maybe it's just my meta, but the card still seems perfectly playable to me. Your meta may be different though.
2 - I like Snare, when it's good, it's the best card in your 75. This decision, like Remand v. Leak, is a personal preference thing more than anything else.
3 - I like 4. I really like 4. But 3 is a totally acceptable number. Less than that is incorrect.
4 - I think this card is pretty average right now. I'm running 1.
5 - 24 lands is probably best. I run 8 fetches, 5 shocks (2 Vents, 2 Fountain and a Foundry), 4 basics, 4 Colonnades, a Castle, a Moorland Haunt (testing this out) and a Ghost Quarter. I've run as many as 2 Quarters and a Loothouse (I **HIGHLY** suggest this), I've run Slayers' Stronghold (back when I played a 1-of Dragonlord Ojutai), I've played Tec Edges. You have a lot of options. I know some people only run 4 shocks, I like having the second Fountain. I don't think running 10 fetches is right, because there are some matchups where having actual lands is better than the 2 extra fetches.
6 - Elspeth, Sun's Champion is fantastic and I highly suggest playing it. Keranos is one of my favorite Magic cards and has won me a lot of games, but I don't think it's great right now. If you don't have a lot of Nahiri in your local meta, it's a completely playable card, but once Nahiris pop up, not only will they be able to snipe it, but Celestial Purge will probably see more play which has incidental value against your indestructible 6/5. I also love Molten Rain. If you can resolve 2 (not ridiculous when you play a virtual 6 copies) of those against a good number of decks in the format, it will win you the game. It advances both your burn plan, and can help knock Tron around, as well as Jund and Grixis, who have generally tough manabases. A single RIP is fine. The matchups where you want it, you're more than happy to have a 2/1 flash threat, because your hate card is going to crush them. I will say, I think Living End is a fine matchup. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever actually lost to it. You have disruption + a quick clock, which is exactly what you're looking for. Just be wary of Ricochet Traps. 2 Stony Silence is fine, but it's just that. We have a very good Affinity matchup already, so that slot can be used for other things. Izzet Staticaster is a bonkers card that you could play instead that also helps your Affinity matchup (resolving one is basically game over). I prefer 2 Negates and 1 Dispel, but there isn't a lot of blue in my area, and Negate is a broader answer. Wrath could be a Supreme Verdict, depending on if you're more worried about Thrun out of BGx/Welding Jar out of Affinity, or if you're more worried about Merfolk/other blue decks (though Merfolk isn't a blue deck).
7 - I've played Mom and Pops Thopter Shop in the sideboard of my list a couple of times, never actually cast it. Seems fine, not necessarily great, but absolutely crazy good in some matchups. I don't think you need Finks. Elspeth, Knight-Errant is fantastic, I've played as many as 2 in the main. However, if you want to run one, you should play 4 Geists. Curving removal spells on turns 1+2, into turn 3 Geist, into turn 4 Elspeth will crush most matchups. She also helps you grind out BGx and other decks that struggle with planeswalkers/a constant stream of blockers. I wouldn't recommend cutting Cliques. The card is great in so many matchups, and it makes playing Magic easier. It's also a great individual threat that you can play at the end of your opponent's turn and if they tap low to answer it, you can follow it up with a Geist or something else and not have to worry about counterspells.
Whirler Rogue might be better for Geist than Pia and Kiran. It creates the same amount of bodies, but it can also be used immediately to make your Geist unblockable. I've been wanting to try it for some time, but life is busy. Even if you don't have a Geist out, it's still very useful. I suppose Elspeth, Knight-Errant would serve a similar purpose, but Whirler Rogue works well with Restoration Angel.
This discussion pops up every once in a while. If you're looking for a 4-drop to give your Geists evasion, you should just be playing Elsepth. If you plaly a Whirler Rogue and it dies, you don't get any benefit from the Thopters. If you play an Elspeth, you have a more versatile threat that helps in more matchups.
I've started running blade splicers instead of geist. The ability to block well together with restoration angel shenanigans won me all my MNM games yesterday.
I think this is a very good choice depending on your meta. If you're facing a lot of BGx, Splicer will do work since you can usually use the token to block something and Bolt whatever you're blocking before regular damage to snipe it and keep your token around.
Yeah every Affinity deck I've played against for the past couple of months has played Jar
This statement looks so hyperbolic. Not to mention it's usually a 1of when it does see play (not much at all in my experience) and 4 mana sweepers aren't the best way to deal with Affinity anyway.
not hyperbolic at all. actual fact. and while 4-mana sweepers may not be the best way to handle the deck as a whole, your chances of knocking Affinity off of Metalcraft and sniping a Champion are pretty low, so it's a good contingency plan.
Yeah every Affinity deck I've played against for the past couple of months has played Jar. And Thrun is getting played by Jund in my area. Both of those are totally viable cards with the uptick in UWx being played due to Nahiri.
What do we think of playing (in the sideboard) some number of Invasive Surgery? There are a lot of sorcery spells that can pick us apart, like hand disruption from Jund and Abzan, Pyroclasm from Tron, Ancestral Vision (and possibly Dreadbore) from Grixis. I think it's worth testing some number of them and seeing how they perform. It's just unfortunate to play against Grixis and have our only defense against Vision be Mana Leak, Remand or Izzet Charm (or Cryptic if you're still running them).
Also, what has everyone turned to as their Keranos replacement? Or are you still running it? I feel like it's far less playable now than pre-Nahiri, and have tried out Gideon Jura in it's slot (alongside an Elspeth, Sun's Champion) but I don't know that I'm fully satisfied with it and am trying to think of some other options. Currently on the brain are Thundermaw, Stormbreath, Baneslayer, Dragonlord Ojutai, Ajani Vengeant, Jace Architect of Thought, Tamiyo (seems bad, but I've heard murmurings that it's worked well for others), or even another Elspeth.
Here's the link to my report on the Indy Open. I included thoughts on card choices as well.
As far as the debate about Resto and Elspeth goes, Resto is one of the best cards in the deck. I had a pretty mild opinion of the card for a long time, seeing it as just a way to save Geist that also provides a beater, but the card is actually incredibly hard to deal with. 4-mana 3/4 strains removal pretty hard. That being said, Elspeth is also a great card, and curving Geist into Elspeth is incredibly powerful. I've previously played as many as two Elspeth, and when your goal is to just aggro your opponent out, that can be fine, but you shouldn't just discredit Resto. When I've played 2 Elspeths, I've played 2 Resto (and two Lightning Angel which is also great).
Played in SCG Indy this weekend. Missed Day 2 by one point (even though 18 would usually be good enough at an Open that size, we just had an anomaly weekend). I'll post a tourney report tomorrow.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
I don't think it's worth it, but I've never tried it. Test it for a while and let us know how it goes?
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
I've been considering cutting the LD land slot for a while. At least in my meta, it isn't really needed.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
2x Spell Snare
3x Mana Leak
2x Remand
4x Lightning Helix
1x Electrolyze
2x Cryptic Command
Creatures:
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Vendilion Clique
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Restoration Angel
1x Batterskull
4x Flooded Strand
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Hallowed Founatain
2x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Eiganjo Castle
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Keranos, God of Storms
3x Molten Rain
1x Negate
1x Dispel
1x Rest for the Weary
1x Rest in Peace
1x Stony Silence
1x Wear//Tear
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Supreme Verdict
I lost to 1-2 Redless Jund (basically Jund, but without the red cards and playing Eldrazi instead), beat Grixis Control 2-0, beat BG Zombies 2-0 (basically Innistrad/RTR standard zombies deck) and beat UB Thopter Tezz 2-1. Deck's great, and I love having access to Cryptic. I played almost this same list (only like 2 cards are different) last Friday and finished 3-1 as well, losing to Blue Moon (a match that I should have won, but I mistakenly fetched Island instead of Plains and got punished), and beating Esper Control, Jund and Bring to Light Kiki.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
1 - I have been playing a Control list for the past couple of weeks that ran 4 Remand and 2 Leaks. Remand felt absolutely fine. Maybe it's just my meta, but the card still seems perfectly playable to me. Your meta may be different though.
2 - I like Snare, when it's good, it's the best card in your 75. This decision, like Remand v. Leak, is a personal preference thing more than anything else.
3 - I like 4. I really like 4. But 3 is a totally acceptable number. Less than that is incorrect.
4 - I think this card is pretty average right now. I'm running 1.
5 - 24 lands is probably best. I run 8 fetches, 5 shocks (2 Vents, 2 Fountain and a Foundry), 4 basics, 4 Colonnades, a Castle, a Moorland Haunt (testing this out) and a Ghost Quarter. I've run as many as 2 Quarters and a Loothouse (I **HIGHLY** suggest this), I've run Slayers' Stronghold (back when I played a 1-of Dragonlord Ojutai), I've played Tec Edges. You have a lot of options. I know some people only run 4 shocks, I like having the second Fountain. I don't think running 10 fetches is right, because there are some matchups where having actual lands is better than the 2 extra fetches.
6 - Elspeth, Sun's Champion is fantastic and I highly suggest playing it. Keranos is one of my favorite Magic cards and has won me a lot of games, but I don't think it's great right now. If you don't have a lot of Nahiri in your local meta, it's a completely playable card, but once Nahiris pop up, not only will they be able to snipe it, but Celestial Purge will probably see more play which has incidental value against your indestructible 6/5. I also love Molten Rain. If you can resolve 2 (not ridiculous when you play a virtual 6 copies) of those against a good number of decks in the format, it will win you the game. It advances both your burn plan, and can help knock Tron around, as well as Jund and Grixis, who have generally tough manabases. A single RIP is fine. The matchups where you want it, you're more than happy to have a 2/1 flash threat, because your hate card is going to crush them. I will say, I think Living End is a fine matchup. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever actually lost to it. You have disruption + a quick clock, which is exactly what you're looking for. Just be wary of Ricochet Traps. 2 Stony Silence is fine, but it's just that. We have a very good Affinity matchup already, so that slot can be used for other things. Izzet Staticaster is a bonkers card that you could play instead that also helps your Affinity matchup (resolving one is basically game over). I prefer 2 Negates and 1 Dispel, but there isn't a lot of blue in my area, and Negate is a broader answer. Wrath could be a Supreme Verdict, depending on if you're more worried about Thrun out of BGx/Welding Jar out of Affinity, or if you're more worried about Merfolk/other blue decks (though Merfolk isn't a blue deck).
7 - I've played Mom and Pops Thopter Shop in the sideboard of my list a couple of times, never actually cast it. Seems fine, not necessarily great, but absolutely crazy good in some matchups. I don't think you need Finks. Elspeth, Knight-Errant is fantastic, I've played as many as 2 in the main. However, if you want to run one, you should play 4 Geists. Curving removal spells on turns 1+2, into turn 3 Geist, into turn 4 Elspeth will crush most matchups. She also helps you grind out BGx and other decks that struggle with planeswalkers/a constant stream of blockers. I wouldn't recommend cutting Cliques. The card is great in so many matchups, and it makes playing Magic easier. It's also a great individual threat that you can play at the end of your opponent's turn and if they tap low to answer it, you can follow it up with a Geist or something else and not have to worry about counterspells.
This discussion pops up every once in a while. If you're looking for a 4-drop to give your Geists evasion, you should just be playing Elsepth. If you plaly a Whirler Rogue and it dies, you don't get any benefit from the Thopters. If you play an Elspeth, you have a more versatile threat that helps in more matchups.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
I think this is a very good choice depending on your meta. If you're facing a lot of BGx, Splicer will do work since you can usually use the token to block something and Bolt whatever you're blocking before regular damage to snipe it and keep your token around.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
not hyperbolic at all. actual fact. and while 4-mana sweepers may not be the best way to handle the deck as a whole, your chances of knocking Affinity off of Metalcraft and sniping a Champion are pretty low, so it's a good contingency plan.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
Also, what has everyone turned to as their Keranos replacement? Or are you still running it? I feel like it's far less playable now than pre-Nahiri, and have tried out Gideon Jura in it's slot (alongside an Elspeth, Sun's Champion) but I don't know that I'm fully satisfied with it and am trying to think of some other options. Currently on the brain are Thundermaw, Stormbreath, Baneslayer, Dragonlord Ojutai, Ajani Vengeant, Jace Architect of Thought, Tamiyo (seems bad, but I've heard murmurings that it's worked well for others), or even another Elspeth.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
As far as the debate about Resto and Elspeth goes, Resto is one of the best cards in the deck. I had a pretty mild opinion of the card for a long time, seeing it as just a way to save Geist that also provides a beater, but the card is actually incredibly hard to deal with. 4-mana 3/4 strains removal pretty hard. That being said, Elspeth is also a great card, and curving Geist into Elspeth is incredibly powerful. I've previously played as many as two Elspeth, and when your goal is to just aggro your opponent out, that can be fine, but you shouldn't just discredit Resto. When I've played 2 Elspeths, I've played 2 Resto (and two Lightning Angel which is also great).
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control