I dont see how Worship is not an MVP card against Affinity - it's stronger then Stony Silence. You can still lose through a Stony Silence - but you will never lose to Affinity through a Worship (I have seen zero copies of Wear//tear in almost all competitive lists for weeks now).
I think EDF is a bit of a trap - although it does some work in the mirror - which is seemingly pretty important these days..
I like Timely reinforcements (I run 2x of atm) and don't like World breaker personally (too slow for hitting artifacts, enchantments, lands to matter and for slower matchups we are already good).
I think you need at least 4 knockout hate cards for affinity - im running 3x Stony silence, 1x Worship. EE is also good but not as back-breaking as the other four. Kataki is far more impactful against Affinity when compared to Stony Silence (although much narrower) and will often win games effectively on the spot, whereas Stony silence can be beaten. A 1-of is not a bad idea to complement Stony silence's and worship..
Well I guess we agree to disagree - and you've obviously personally done well with Chalice - so congrats.
The other thing I would mention is that Merfolk has similar bad matchups to Eldrazi. Merfolk is unfavoured against Affinity, Infect, Death's Shadow, Ad Nauseum and the new Storm deck (and the old one). Chalice has a long history in sb's of Merfolk decks and was especially successful in the Treasure Cruise era. However, no one is playing Chalice in Merfolk atm (at least the vast, vast majority of lists). Perhaps, everyone else needs to consider chalice? I dont know what the answer is - but I'm pretty skeptical on chalice given the data as it stands..
Overall I think there are generally more impactful cards that we can side in against genuine tier 1 or tier 2 decks. Chalice's effectiveness revolves around the popularity of Infect and Ad Nauseum. Granted it has some play against Tron - but it really hurts our own development against Tron as well. Other decks like Living End are not relevant in modern (they might be in your local meta though). If this relatively new Storm variant with Thing In The Ice becomes big then Chalice's stocks go way up! There were ~18 decks in the top 64 of the 3 GPs; including a top 8 deck - no other decks ran any copies of chalice.
I'm not just theory crafting i've played with chalice for years in different decks including Bant Eldrazi. Chalice is hit or miss even against the decks were its good as its effectiveness later in the game declines rapidly and in some matchups it's unplayable on the draw. Further it demands 4x sb slots that weaken your ability to sb against other decks..
You can easily lose to burn with a chalice in play (tons of two drops and they will side in D Rev against us anyway to hit Skite and explosives). Further to this - burn will often get 1 drops away before chalice comes down. Then you sit with paths and denials etc in your hand that you cannot cast - ugh. Timely reinforcements and blessed alliance are far better sb cards in this match-up..
I agree that shadow is harder to lose and infect should be also gg. However, EE does a fine job against Sui Zoo - so its really only critical for the infect matchup and random Ad Nauseum decks - imo - not sure what else Eldrazi really needs it for?
The other problem is that chalice can be complete garbage if it doesn't come down early enough and so you need to take up four slots for it to be effective (granted that Stirrings makes it much better). I'm just not sure it does enough really in any deck in modern - especially one with a decent amount of 1 drops like Bant Eldrazi. Maybe this will be proven to be incorrect and if infect is everywhere in a given meta (which it might just well be) - then I could back it..
I was asking myself, against which decks Chalice of the Void is great?. I can't imagine a deck where Chalice is great and Path and Stirrings and Hierarch not.
Maybe i'm missing something. Anyways, he made Top 8 so the tech must have been useful. Time to try those Chalices.
Be prepared for having a lot of cards stick in your hand (Stirrings, Path, all your dorks, stubborn denial, nature's claim) - if you want to blow up 1 drops - use EE, less bad feelings and non-bo's..
Ive been playing ghostly prison as a utility sb card that can hit dredge and other go wide decks - its never been all that amazing to be honest. Worship has also underperformed - although it got me a win against Merfolk and Burn - I think two copies might be overkill?
I went through all the Bant Eldrazi lists (~18 lists) from the three GP top 64 lists - there were exactly ZERO copies of EDF! In my own experience it has been win more generally - although it has won a couple of games were I would have lost otherwise due to being able to tap down their lands and time walk them (Combo, Tron). All in all this card is being cut from my list - the GP evidence has pushed me over the edge..
Most likely going up to 3x EE - 1 MD..
The other thing I noticed was that land hate is likely more important then GY hate?! Should we be running an extra GQ, Spreading Sea's or something similar for Valakut, Tron and the mirror?
Top 3 decks that i've found very difficult to beat:
1) Merfolk
2) Affinity
3) Elves
Honorable mention: Ad Nauseam
You have to play at least 3x Stony Silence and I also run 2x EE and 2x Worship - with this package I find it about 50/50. Merfolk and Elves are really bad - play more explosives is all I can say (and/or hope merfolk doesnt get islandwalk going, do not fetch for islands if you can help it)..
Well if your strategy is working for you - awesome - RIP is a great card against Jund IMO, as is Explosives. I guess you dont ever have to face down Bob grinding you out like I have..
Have no idea why you would want to keep dorks in against Jund..
Siding in EE against Jund is def worth it - often you need to remove Bob otherwise we just die to the CA - it hits tons of there two drops that are for sure problematic for us - Scooze esp.
Although our creatures in theory outclass there's - they have tons of removal..
Another card I like to bring in against Jund is Rest In peace - hosing there goyfs, scooze's and sided Finks (which the always bring in) gives you the edge..
The 1st place list is very stock - no real surprises here. The 6th place list is running 2x Snapcaster while increasing snap targets to 10x MD and running a higher then normal amount of instant/sorceries SB - something to think about for us for sure..
What do ppl think about running 2x Spreading Seas SB with a GQ MD to combat tron (and valakut decks)? Combined with stony silence it gives decent game against Tron..
I've been testing with UW eldrazi (no green) - sorry if it is inappropriate here - however my list is as below. The list was inspired by matchups which can be problematic for Eldrazi.
1. Junk CoCo/Chord Combo: This deck appears to be decently favoured against Eldrazi and is gaining traction as the 'deck that beats eldrazi' - while the infinite life combo is an obvious issue the lifegain from the Angel and Wall of Roots really helps them stall until they can jam the combo or jam worship. To combat this i've added a slightly bigger removal package (PtE, Dismember, Ratchet Bomb) and sb cards to deal with Worship, all there instants and the gy combo (Disenchant, Swan Song, Stubborn Denial and Rest in Peace).
2. Griselbrand: they can kill turn 2 - but it will be a lot harder for them to do so if you can cut off there gy and hold up counters to Goryos and TTB (Swan Song, Stubborn Denial and Rest in Peace).
3. Affinity: Stony silence, disenchant, bomb, removal package are all great cards against affinity
4. Sweeper decks/Blue Moon: Ive found these decks much easier to beat then the above three as they generally dont apply much pressure; counterspells (sweepers except verdict, verdict decks are slow - deploy threats judiciously), bomb (for spreading seas, blood moon) and disenchant for blood moon (fetch your basic plains) are all good here. Cavern really wrecks the counters.
5. Lantern Control: Stony Silence, Ratchet Bomb, Disenchant, stubborn denial seem pretty good here
6. Mirror: Drowner, Endbringer and Displacer are all pretty good in the mirror..
//Lands
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Flooded Strand
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Plains
//Removal
4 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
2 Ratchet Bomb
I think EDF is a bit of a trap - although it does some work in the mirror - which is seemingly pretty important these days..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
I think you need at least 4 knockout hate cards for affinity - im running 3x Stony silence, 1x Worship. EE is also good but not as back-breaking as the other four. Kataki is far more impactful against Affinity when compared to Stony Silence (although much narrower) and will often win games effectively on the spot, whereas Stony silence can be beaten. A 1-of is not a bad idea to complement Stony silence's and worship..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
The other thing I would mention is that Merfolk has similar bad matchups to Eldrazi. Merfolk is unfavoured against Affinity, Infect, Death's Shadow, Ad Nauseum and the new Storm deck (and the old one). Chalice has a long history in sb's of Merfolk decks and was especially successful in the Treasure Cruise era. However, no one is playing Chalice in Merfolk atm (at least the vast, vast majority of lists). Perhaps, everyone else needs to consider chalice? I dont know what the answer is - but I'm pretty skeptical on chalice given the data as it stands..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
I'm not just theory crafting i've played with chalice for years in different decks including Bant Eldrazi. Chalice is hit or miss even against the decks were its good as its effectiveness later in the game declines rapidly and in some matchups it's unplayable on the draw. Further it demands 4x sb slots that weaken your ability to sb against other decks..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
I agree that shadow is harder to lose and infect should be also gg. However, EE does a fine job against Sui Zoo - so its really only critical for the infect matchup and random Ad Nauseum decks - imo - not sure what else Eldrazi really needs it for?
The other problem is that chalice can be complete garbage if it doesn't come down early enough and so you need to take up four slots for it to be effective (granted that Stirrings makes it much better). I'm just not sure it does enough really in any deck in modern - especially one with a decent amount of 1 drops like Bant Eldrazi. Maybe this will be proven to be incorrect and if infect is everywhere in a given meta (which it might just well be) - then I could back it..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Be prepared for having a lot of cards stick in your hand (Stirrings, Path, all your dorks, stubborn denial, nature's claim) - if you want to blow up 1 drops - use EE, less bad feelings and non-bo's..
Ive been playing ghostly prison as a utility sb card that can hit dredge and other go wide decks - its never been all that amazing to be honest. Worship has also underperformed - although it got me a win against Merfolk and Burn - I think two copies might be overkill?
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Most likely going up to 3x EE - 1 MD..
The other thing I noticed was that land hate is likely more important then GY hate?! Should we be running an extra GQ, Spreading Sea's or something similar for Valakut, Tron and the mirror?
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
You have to play at least 3x Stony Silence and I also run 2x EE and 2x Worship - with this package I find it about 50/50. Merfolk and Elves are really bad - play more explosives is all I can say (and/or hope merfolk doesnt get islandwalk going, do not fetch for islands if you can help it)..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Have no idea why you would want to keep dorks in against Jund..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Although our creatures in theory outclass there's - they have tons of removal..
Another card I like to bring in against Jund is Rest In peace - hosing there goyfs, scooze's and sided Finks (which the always bring in) gives you the edge..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
1st place and 6th place
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-mocs-2016-07-24#decklists
The 1st place list is very stock - no real surprises here. The 6th place list is running 2x Snapcaster while increasing snap targets to 10x MD and running a higher then normal amount of instant/sorceries SB - something to think about for us for sure..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Im playing 5 dorks and 23 lands (minus hallowed fountain) - Im quite happy with it. I run 2x Stubborn denial MD.
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
1. Junk CoCo/Chord Combo: This deck appears to be decently favoured against Eldrazi and is gaining traction as the 'deck that beats eldrazi' - while the infinite life combo is an obvious issue the lifegain from the Angel and Wall of Roots really helps them stall until they can jam the combo or jam worship. To combat this i've added a slightly bigger removal package (PtE, Dismember, Ratchet Bomb) and sb cards to deal with Worship, all there instants and the gy combo (Disenchant, Swan Song, Stubborn Denial and Rest in Peace).
2. Griselbrand: they can kill turn 2 - but it will be a lot harder for them to do so if you can cut off there gy and hold up counters to Goryos and TTB (Swan Song, Stubborn Denial and Rest in Peace).
3. Affinity: Stony silence, disenchant, bomb, removal package are all great cards against affinity
4. Sweeper decks/Blue Moon: Ive found these decks much easier to beat then the above three as they generally dont apply much pressure; counterspells (sweepers except verdict, verdict decks are slow - deploy threats judiciously), bomb (for spreading seas, blood moon) and disenchant for blood moon (fetch your basic plains) are all good here. Cavern really wrecks the counters.
5. Lantern Control: Stony Silence, Ratchet Bomb, Disenchant, stubborn denial seem pretty good here
6. Mirror: Drowner, Endbringer and Displacer are all pretty good in the mirror..
//Lands
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Flooded Strand
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Plains
//Removal
4 Path to Exile
1 Dismember
2 Ratchet Bomb
//Creatures
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Endless One
4 Drowner of Hope
1 Endbringer
//Sideboard
SB: 3 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Stony Silence
SB: 3 Disenchant
SB: 3 Stubborn Denial
SB: 2 Swan Song
SB: 1 Endbringer
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver