2a. Grixis Delver is not easy - especially when they get an early flipped delver. You should prioritise killing their threats - take explosives from Stirrings and kill everything on sight (except maybe an unflipped delver). Yes, RIP is strong against this deck - its very beneficial to cut off snap and/or kommand shenanigans - makes them have to hardcast Tasi which screws with their tempo (if they have 6 mana). Against Delver I dont bring in any counterspells or Chalice.
2b. Grixis Control should be easy but not a slamdunk. I side out all removal and explosives and bring in counters, chalice and RIP (plus any bombs you may have). They do have kommand for chalice and can also bounce it - but I think it's still worth it. Ive had success placing chalice on zero before AV goes off and placing it on one - a lot of there engine is 1 cmc (SV, Scour) and so is there removal (bolt, push). You don't feel pressured vs this version of grixis - so you mulligan differently - try to find a cavern to cut off CC from at least countering your threats and take your time to play around tthere counters and removal.
You are right I would likely play Stubborn Denial if I didnt play chalice - but Ive also had Stubborn denial sit helplessly in my hand without ferocious many, many times in the past. I think denial is great against Tron - but otherwise its really iffy - negate also has its downsides - I dont think one or the other is a clear-cut winner.
if you play Island then you would have to consider Misty Rainforest? I really dont want to play Mistys in this deck. At this stage im happy playing dorks and 4 Skyspawners and bringing in counters to beat Blood moon decks - its not foolproof but its acceptable with the current level of Blood Moon in the format..
I get that ppl dont want to play chalice - but i've played without it and felt terrible against a wide range of decks. I have two deck variants built with 4x Chalcie and zero chalice - ive personally done significantly better with the Chalice build online in the last two weeks. Additionally with Cheerios threatening to spike at the GP - no way am I leaving Chalices out of my 75..
I think you want 3 basic lands - cut the fountain. Also I think 3x EE is better then 2x EE and Spellskite - skites just are not worthy of a slot.
Sideboard id cut Worship and Elspeth and send the EE to the mainboard. You now have three slots - I like negate - i play 2x Negate and 2x Unified will - I think 4 counters is where you want to be atm. Id have 3 gy hate cards - I think 2x RIP is mandatory..
I play the fullset of Skyspawner and Drowner - not because of blood moon (although they help - esp skyspawner) but because they are just the best bant eldrazi cards to play.
What you really need against a blood moon is colourless mana - if you play a wastes you can either GQ a land to find wastes or path your own guys - wastes is far more useful against a blood moon then island is.
None of those decks you list are even tier 2 - you only very rarely see them 5-0 a league. Even without wastes, basic island, talismans or other sub-optimal workarounds I still routinely beat Blue Moon decks - Skred Red and RW prison are pretty hard for sure - but I also play pithing needle which hurts there win-con - sure they are unfavoured match-ups but I dont want to lose other matchups because my mana base is super janky..
I am incredibly skeptical of playing basic Islands in Bant Eldrazi. You cant fetch it off Windswept and its the smallest splash colour in the deck - I can see this strategy colour screwing you far more then 'saving you' against blood moon. Switching to Misty's just to accomodate basic Island seems awkward - the mana base is fragile as is - going down the path of removing heaths for Mistys is going to leave you an awkward positions far too often.
If people so desperately feel the need to 'beat' blood moon - play a basic Wastes or even the Talismans..
I dont think Ad Nauseum or Titan Shift are that bad - im favoured against Ad nauseum and Titan Shift is slightly unfavoured.
I play four counterspells atm - 2x Negate and 2x Unified Will - jamming 4 Chalice against Ad Nauseum on top of counters, blowing up mana rocks and TKS'ing there combo piece makes it pretty straight forward.
Titan Shift is basically a race - you will need to keep a fastish hand and Drowner is gold against Titan - as is 2x Unified Will. Dont get me wrong TitanShift is no walk in the park but I can think several other worse matchups..
Chalice is, at times, a difficult card to play. Obviously there are a significant number of 1 cmc spells in the main deck of Bant Eldrazi and possibly more in the sb (depending on how you construct it). This fact alone is the main reason why ppl dont play it. Sideboarding to minimize these 'non-bo's' and understanding when its worth to keep in the non-bo cards while bringing in chalice is pretty advanced stuff -you really have to know the meta and your opponents decks very well - I'd say chalice is not for beginners - especially in this deck where it can end up harming you if you are not careful..
Another reason is that ppl (most) consider running 4x is a requirement (you can run less but you seriously jeopardize its power) and thus many consider 4 slots is just too many for Chalice. However, if you want to beat Burn you really need to run something like 2x Blessed Alliance - which I feel (despite its supposed escalate utility) is a narrow card. Thus the Chalice is really only taking up 2x spots as I have no need to run blessed alliance. While Alliance has some utility outside of burn (like infect, death's shadow or bogles) you will find that Chalice covers these matchups adequately and then some.
With all of the above said - I dont have a lot of experience playing against Cheerios but what I have found is that Chalice and Explosives are very good - get a Chalice on Zero and an Explosives on 2 - I havent played Stony Silence against them yet - but realize that this is a non-bo with EE. However, id say its def worth to bring in Stony for a more dense disruption suite. Against Cheerios take out your high end - all drowners and some Smashers. You will need to hold up mana for counterspells and removal to stop there E-Truth or Silence shenanigans - so tapping out for a big threat is going to kill you - good luck.
Against Ad Nauseum - Chalice is your best card - get it on 1 and your opponent will find it hard to win (additional Chalices can be set to zero or 2 depending on the situation) - they do have echoing truth and the 3 cmc poison enchantment though - so you will have to try and blow up the enchantment or counter it - TKS combo pieces and keep applying pressure. Blow up there mana rocks where possible.
Chalice is good against burn and I have locked out plenty of burn players with chalice on 1 and chalice on 2. Burn can still win through a chalice on 1 – so you will have to play extremely tight . Yes they will have revelry - but they dont always draw it or even have enough of them in their board to reliably draw them. The other thing I’ve noticed is that burn players never suspect Chalice and often sideboard in Path to Exile – further improving your decision to bring in Chalice.
You bring Chalice in against Affinity ONLY on the play and set it to zero. Keep an opener with Chalice, other hate cards or Ancient stirrings – likely mull anything else (it depends). You have a high probability of finding it with stirrings on turn 1 – if you chalice turn 1 for zero – Affinity usually concedes or should concede.
If the control deck is playing a lot of 1 drops (path, bolt, push, SV) and no threats – then it is a no-brainer to side-out your own paths and bring in chalices. Chalice can be very effective on zero vs Ancestral Vision..
Chalice is, at times, a difficult card to play. Obviously there are a significant number of 1 cmc spells in the main deck of Bant Eldrazi and possibly more in the sb (depending on how you construct it). This fact alone is the main reason why ppl dont play it. Sideboarding to minimize these 'non-bo's' and understanding when its worth to keep in the non-bo cards while bringing in chalice is pretty advanced stuff -you really have to the meta and your opponents decks very well - I'd say chalice is not for beginners..
Another reason is that ppl (most) consider running 4x is a requirement (you can run less but you seriously jeopardize its power) and thus many consider 4 slots is just too many for Chalice. However, if you want to beat Burn you really need to run something like 2x Blessed Alliance - which I feel (despite its supposed escalate utility) is a narrow card. Thus the Chalice is really only taking up 2x spots as I have no need to run blessed alliance. While Alliance has some utility outside of burn (like infect, death's shadow or bogles) you will find that Chalice covers these matchups adequately and then some.
With all of the above said - I dont have a lot of experience playing against Cheerios but what I have found is that Chalice and Explosives are your best cards against them - get a Chalice on Zero and an Explosives on 2 - I havent played Stony Silence against them yet - but realize that this is a non-bo with EE. However, id say its def worth to bring in Stony for a more dense disruption suite. Against Cheerios take out your high end - all drowners and some Smashers. You will need to hold up mana for counterspells and removal to stop there E-Truth or Silence shenanigans - so tapping out for a big threat is going to kill you - good luck.
Against Ad Nauseum - Chalice is your best card - get it on 1 and your opponent will find it hard to win (additional Chalices can be set to zero or 2 depending on the situation) - they do have echoing truth and the 3 cmc poison enchantment though - so you will have to try and blow up the enchantment or counter it - TKS combo pieces and keep applying pressure. Blow up there mana rocks where possible.
Chalice is good against burn and I have locked out plenty of burn players with chalice on 1 and chalice on 2. Burn can still win through a chalice on 1 – so you will have to play extremely tight . Yes they will have revelry - but they dont always draw it or even have enough of them in their board to reliably draw them. The other thing I’ve noticed is that burn players never suspect Chalice and often sideboard in Path to Exile – further improving your decision to bring in Chalice.
You bring Chalice in against Affinity ONLY on the play and set it to zero. Keep an opener with Chalice, other hate cards or Ancient stirrings – likely mull anything else (it depends). You have a high probability of finding it with stirrings on turn 1 – if you chalice turn 1 for zero – Affinity usually concedes or should concede.
If the control deck is playing a lot of 1 drops (path, bolt, push, SV) and no threats – then it is a no-brainer to side-out your own paths and bring in chalices. Chalice can be very effective on zero vs Ancestral Vision..
I think Stony Silence is a good idea - Mox Opal is there only red mana source for Grapeshot - other good cards are Engineered Explosives (gets around silence) and Chalice on Zero (LOL!) - any additional chalices on 1 or 2..
Im pretty new to Modern Bant Eldrazi (allthough im playing Legacy Eldrazi for about a year, and have played ur eldrazi during eldrazi winter in modern).
There are some things i just cant wrap my head around:
- A lot of people play 2x Stony Silence in the board (and 3 Engineered Explosives spread across main/side) -> doesnt that bite a lot of times? E.g. vs Affinity i see many lists playing all 5 cards, but if you drop Stony, your Explosives (as well as your Talisman) are dead. Is it still worth it?
- in what other matchups do you board Stony Silence in? I expect it to be good vs tron (where you take out the EE), any maybe vs Lantern, where you also would leave EE+Silence in?
Yes - it is def a problem and even worse if you play talismans. I actually like Pithing Needle and play 0-1 copies of Stony.
- How do we beat Ad-Nauseum?
You play Chalice of the Void - its how you beat a lot of decks you otherwise lose to or have a unfavoured matchup against..
It's not all too popular yet, so maybe you have not considered it, but what is your game plan against Lantern Control?
Drop EE and wipe their board
Its slightly more difficult then that - they have pithing needle (and ways to tutor for it), hand disruption etc. I've found that agood lantern pilot is favoured over us - however if you can get in early damage before bridge comes down and have nobles that can attack under the bridge then you can get there.
Obv bring in anything that can destroy artifacts - try getting a Displacer/TKS lock on them to get them to discard anything that will stop your own game plan - perhaps even RIP to shut off Academy Ruins..
I've been playing zero matter reshaper since about september 2016 - Skyspawner is just better - it ramps you to Smasher and Drowner and helps against all the tough matchups by providing a flying blocker ie. Affinity, Infect and other aggro where having two chump blockers helps you not die. Reshaper is good in match-ups that Eldrazi is already favoured in - so why play reshaper? It just so happens it's also useful against Moon - but that is the last reason I would play it..
It sure does shine against blood moon decks - but its pretty bad vs everything else - not sure why ppl are such fans of EE'ing there own ramp - worse then someone bolting your dork..
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
2a. Grixis Delver is not easy - especially when they get an early flipped delver. You should prioritise killing their threats - take explosives from Stirrings and kill everything on sight (except maybe an unflipped delver). Yes, RIP is strong against this deck - its very beneficial to cut off snap and/or kommand shenanigans - makes them have to hardcast Tasi which screws with their tempo (if they have 6 mana). Against Delver I dont bring in any counterspells or Chalice.
2b. Grixis Control should be easy but not a slamdunk. I side out all removal and explosives and bring in counters, chalice and RIP (plus any bombs you may have). They do have kommand for chalice and can also bounce it - but I think it's still worth it. Ive had success placing chalice on zero before AV goes off and placing it on one - a lot of there engine is 1 cmc (SV, Scour) and so is there removal (bolt, push). You don't feel pressured vs this version of grixis - so you mulligan differently - try to find a cavern to cut off CC from at least countering your threats and take your time to play around tthere counters and removal.
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
if you play Island then you would have to consider Misty Rainforest? I really dont want to play Mistys in this deck. At this stage im happy playing dorks and 4 Skyspawners and bringing in counters to beat Blood moon decks - its not foolproof but its acceptable with the current level of Blood Moon in the format..
I get that ppl dont want to play chalice - but i've played without it and felt terrible against a wide range of decks. I have two deck variants built with 4x Chalcie and zero chalice - ive personally done significantly better with the Chalice build online in the last two weeks. Additionally with Cheerios threatening to spike at the GP - no way am I leaving Chalices out of my 75..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Sideboard id cut Worship and Elspeth and send the EE to the mainboard. You now have three slots - I like negate - i play 2x Negate and 2x Unified will - I think 4 counters is where you want to be atm. Id have 3 gy hate cards - I think 2x RIP is mandatory..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
What you really need against a blood moon is colourless mana - if you play a wastes you can either GQ a land to find wastes or path your own guys - wastes is far more useful against a blood moon then island is.
None of those decks you list are even tier 2 - you only very rarely see them 5-0 a league. Even without wastes, basic island, talismans or other sub-optimal workarounds I still routinely beat Blue Moon decks - Skred Red and RW prison are pretty hard for sure - but I also play pithing needle which hurts there win-con - sure they are unfavoured match-ups but I dont want to lose other matchups because my mana base is super janky..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
If people so desperately feel the need to 'beat' blood moon - play a basic Wastes or even the Talismans..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
I play four counterspells atm - 2x Negate and 2x Unified Will - jamming 4 Chalice against Ad Nauseum on top of counters, blowing up mana rocks and TKS'ing there combo piece makes it pretty straight forward.
Titan Shift is basically a race - you will need to keep a fastish hand and Drowner is gold against Titan - as is 2x Unified Will. Dont get me wrong TitanShift is no walk in the park but I can think several other worse matchups..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Another reason is that ppl (most) consider running 4x is a requirement (you can run less but you seriously jeopardize its power) and thus many consider 4 slots is just too many for Chalice. However, if you want to beat Burn you really need to run something like 2x Blessed Alliance - which I feel (despite its supposed escalate utility) is a narrow card. Thus the Chalice is really only taking up 2x spots as I have no need to run blessed alliance. While Alliance has some utility outside of burn (like infect, death's shadow or bogles) you will find that Chalice covers these matchups adequately and then some.
With all of the above said - I dont have a lot of experience playing against Cheerios but what I have found is that Chalice and Explosives are very good - get a Chalice on Zero and an Explosives on 2 - I havent played Stony Silence against them yet - but realize that this is a non-bo with EE. However, id say its def worth to bring in Stony for a more dense disruption suite. Against Cheerios take out your high end - all drowners and some Smashers. You will need to hold up mana for counterspells and removal to stop there E-Truth or Silence shenanigans - so tapping out for a big threat is going to kill you - good luck.
Against Ad Nauseum - Chalice is your best card - get it on 1 and your opponent will find it hard to win (additional Chalices can be set to zero or 2 depending on the situation) - they do have echoing truth and the 3 cmc poison enchantment though - so you will have to try and blow up the enchantment or counter it - TKS combo pieces and keep applying pressure. Blow up there mana rocks where possible.
Chalice is good against burn and I have locked out plenty of burn players with chalice on 1 and chalice on 2. Burn can still win through a chalice on 1 – so you will have to play extremely tight . Yes they will have revelry - but they dont always draw it or even have enough of them in their board to reliably draw them. The other thing I’ve noticed is that burn players never suspect Chalice and often sideboard in Path to Exile – further improving your decision to bring in Chalice.
You bring Chalice in against Affinity ONLY on the play and set it to zero. Keep an opener with Chalice, other hate cards or Ancient stirrings – likely mull anything else (it depends). You have a high probability of finding it with stirrings on turn 1 – if you chalice turn 1 for zero – Affinity usually concedes or should concede.
If the control deck is playing a lot of 1 drops (path, bolt, push, SV) and no threats – then it is a no-brainer to side-out your own paths and bring in chalices. Chalice can be very effective on zero vs Ancestral Vision..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Another reason is that ppl (most) consider running 4x is a requirement (you can run less but you seriously jeopardize its power) and thus many consider 4 slots is just too many for Chalice. However, if you want to beat Burn you really need to run something like 2x Blessed Alliance - which I feel (despite its supposed escalate utility) is a narrow card. Thus the Chalice is really only taking up 2x spots as I have no need to run blessed alliance. While Alliance has some utility outside of burn (like infect, death's shadow or bogles) you will find that Chalice covers these matchups adequately and then some.
With all of the above said - I dont have a lot of experience playing against Cheerios but what I have found is that Chalice and Explosives are your best cards against them - get a Chalice on Zero and an Explosives on 2 - I havent played Stony Silence against them yet - but realize that this is a non-bo with EE. However, id say its def worth to bring in Stony for a more dense disruption suite. Against Cheerios take out your high end - all drowners and some Smashers. You will need to hold up mana for counterspells and removal to stop there E-Truth or Silence shenanigans - so tapping out for a big threat is going to kill you - good luck.
Against Ad Nauseum - Chalice is your best card - get it on 1 and your opponent will find it hard to win (additional Chalices can be set to zero or 2 depending on the situation) - they do have echoing truth and the 3 cmc poison enchantment though - so you will have to try and blow up the enchantment or counter it - TKS combo pieces and keep applying pressure. Blow up there mana rocks where possible.
Chalice is good against burn and I have locked out plenty of burn players with chalice on 1 and chalice on 2. Burn can still win through a chalice on 1 – so you will have to play extremely tight . Yes they will have revelry - but they dont always draw it or even have enough of them in their board to reliably draw them. The other thing I’ve noticed is that burn players never suspect Chalice and often sideboard in Path to Exile – further improving your decision to bring in Chalice.
You bring Chalice in against Affinity ONLY on the play and set it to zero. Keep an opener with Chalice, other hate cards or Ancient stirrings – likely mull anything else (it depends). You have a high probability of finding it with stirrings on turn 1 – if you chalice turn 1 for zero – Affinity usually concedes or should concede.
If the control deck is playing a lot of 1 drops (path, bolt, push, SV) and no threats – then it is a no-brainer to side-out your own paths and bring in chalices. Chalice can be very effective on zero vs Ancestral Vision..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Its slightly more difficult then that - they have pithing needle (and ways to tutor for it), hand disruption etc. I've found that agood lantern pilot is favoured over us - however if you can get in early damage before bridge comes down and have nobles that can attack under the bridge then you can get there.
Obv bring in anything that can destroy artifacts - try getting a Displacer/TKS lock on them to get them to discard anything that will stop your own game plan - perhaps even RIP to shut off Academy Ruins..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver