Id say Jund is Lili/Bob dependent - if they shred your relevant cards and Lili starts ticking up or for some reason you cant answer Bob - you are dead in the water. Lili is the #1 must remove threat - god forbid they hit 2 or 3 copies..
I think there was a reasonable argument to consider running moon when Amulet was a deck. Moon is a card we have to be prepared for - it will generally hurt you just as much or more than BGx..Tron will draw out of it in most cases..
Ya Nate - indeed. The only consolation is that we don't have to face Bloom. However, this is not a net positive by any stretch of the imagination.
Plus side: Affinity and Infect rise - Im totally happy with this - great news!
Negative side: Tron rises - this is not super dooper bad - but IMO an unfavourable match-up. I think Eldrazi will continue to rise regardless of this announcement and a deck we have to think about anyway - seems unfavourable for us..
Thanks for the advice - I've tried boros charm before - it flips around in the valorous stance slot for me - I run one of them MD. It just seems impossible most times to have enough answers to Lili unless they somehow don't have the turn 1/2 discard up their sleeve. 2 pieces of discard followed by Lili is so often game over..
I played against the OGW version of Eldrazi on cockatrice (Magic-league.com) the other night. Chatting to people playing the deck it seems as though the Black and colourless version - comprising Though-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher - is the 'best' build of the deck.
My game plan was to get aggressive as their late game consists of casting Ullamog reliably. I was fortunate enough to land Geist early and drew a ghost quarter to blow up eldrazi temnple (up to 2x Ghost Quarter MD atm due to Tron and Eldrazi), path some would-be blockers then a bolt or two to the dome got me there winning 2-0 overall. This version was playing 4x heartless summoning - so having ways to kill that is useful - snare, EE, Wear or Purge. Overall, it seemed as though he had a slowish hand and this match-up is likely unfavourable for us. However, if you can stick an early Geist (no concerns about Pyroclasm as you do against Tron) somehow through hand disruption and have paths (paths are critical, you may even consider maindecking a '5th Path' in valorous stance) you can get there.
I lost to Jund in the same tourney the match after - I'm currently at 2x Celestial Purge, 2x Negate, 2x Explosives sb - but even with all that damn Lili always seems to get me. Any advice on the Liliana matchup anyone?
Im sorry if I got a bit heated with my arguments - I need to ignore people more often. Anyway I'd say 2-3x Visions is the sweet spot - we dont need 4 that is for sure.
If I had a dollar for every time someone says 'we are not twin we dont need to run serum visions' - it's simply not true. Plennty of legacy decks run ponder etc that are not combo decks. Visions is a great card - you are doing yourself a disservice by not running this card. I'm certain that people that say this have never actually played the card before in Geist.
Congrats to great nate - maybe a couple of negates in the board to help with combo? Pretty impressive that you were able to beat Tron (twice), Abzan and Tokens - seems like a nightmare gauntlet..
Ponder is much better than Visions as you draw one of the top 3 cards, you don't just draw and then Scry. Ponder is valuable for it's selection and you've also got to realize when talking about Legacy that Force of Will is massive, Ponder isn't just a cantrip, it's a blue card that can be discarded as part of a counterspell. Legacy is a very different meta.
Visions is a good card, but it's a cantrip. It does what a cantrip does, which is that it replaces itself with an additional benefit which in the case of Serum Visions is scry 2. It also does that in your main phase, not during their turn. Tapping for it leaves you unable to cast counterspells, removal or flash in creatures on reaction, it's not like a spell you can do if that isn't necessary, you commit to it.
Ya - obviously there are large differences between Modern and Legacy - the point still stands that Visions is the best filtering card we have in modern and not playing it is a huge mistake - i'd prefer to let the numbers do the talking then inaccurate theory crafting.
lol? Inaccurate theory crafting? Is that all you've got? Show me a solid Control deck that runs Serum Visions. Show me a proven, popular midrange deck that runs it? Jund / Junk don't and I know they're not Blue but they're the most enduring midrange decks in the format and they wouldn't run it if they could. Another tier one deck that is Blue is Merfolk and Merfolk never touches it, and it's not just because it wants to play Aether Vial t1 as that's one 15th of your deck so just under a 50% chance of being your opening 7 card hand. Statistically, since we're letting the numbers do the talking.
Serum Visions is popular because Twin is popular, pure and simple. Serum Visions is very good at assembling a Combo, that is where the filtering is most useful, it helps you keep dicey hands where you have your pieces but maybe not enough land, it also lets you dig to find your pieces. Serum Visions is very good at that. Midrange decks, successfully, tend to be built around pure value. It's not a combo deck, it's a deck full of a good stuff. If your deck is full of value, you don't need to dig, you can use the mana to cast your value spells, which in the case of UWR is removal or counterspells.
Geist it not a control deck. Of course merfolk doesnt use it (every card is the same and it doesnt need to hit land drops and avoid flood like midrange decks do) - you are using straw man arguments. You are even stretching to 'Jund/Junk not using it' - I wont even comment on that line of argument.
Pure and simple you are just wrong - look at the successful UWR midrange Geist decks on mtg top 8 or whereever you like. Look at Great Nates list. Again you use the 'Twin' defence - that is so old and inaccurate..
If you dont like Serum Visions in the list - that's fine - but dont mislead others with your bizarre hate of the card..
If I had a dollar for every time someone says 'we are not twin we dont need to run serum visions' - it's simply not true. Plennty of legacy decks run ponder etc that are not combo decks. Visions is a great card - you are doing yourself a disservice by not running this card. I'm certain that people that say this have never actually played the card before in Geist.
Congrats to great nate - maybe a couple of negates in the board to help with combo? Pretty impressive that you were able to beat Tron (twice), Abzan and Tokens - seems like a nightmare gauntlet..
Ponder is much better than Visions as you draw one of the top 3 cards, you don't just draw and then Scry. Ponder is valuable for it's selection and you've also got to realize when talking about Legacy that Force of Will is massive, Ponder isn't just a cantrip, it's a blue card that can be discarded as part of a counterspell. Legacy is a very different meta.
Visions is a good card, but it's a cantrip. It does what a cantrip does, which is that it replaces itself with an additional benefit which in the case of Serum Visions is scry 2. It also does that in your main phase, not during their turn. Tapping for it leaves you unable to cast counterspells, removal or flash in creatures on reaction, it's not like a spell you can do if that isn't necessary, you commit to it.
Ya - obviously there are large differences between Modern and Legacy - the point still stands that Visions is the best filtering card we have in modern and not playing it is a huge mistake - i'd prefer to let the numbers do the talking then inaccurate theory crafting.
If I had a dollar for every time someone says 'we are not twin we dont need to run serum visions' - it's simply not true. Plennty of legacy decks run ponder etc that are not combo decks. Visions is a great card - you are doing yourself a disservice by not running this card. I'm certain that people that say this have never actually played the card before in Geist.
Congrats to great nate - maybe a couple of negates in the board to help with combo? Pretty impressive that you were able to beat Tron (twice), Abzan and Tokens - seems like a nightmare gauntlet..
Hey guys, I'm currently getting into this archetype and after testing it a few times it really is a very interactive and fun deck to play. The high density of burn spells (to the face) and incidental life gain is something I really dig compared to other decks I play (Grixis Delver and a bit of URb Twin). I got a question about Geist though, is 3 really too few and 4 the number? In some match-ups he is obviously amazing but in some match-ups I'd rather have something else and it can get stuck in your hand when you have one on the field.
Also, what do people think about Blade Splicer? It's a pet card of mine and I think a single Splicer can be good. It's 4 power for 3 over 2 bodies, it has great synergy with Resto, resillent vs sacrifice, blocks Etched Champion and hold the fort well vs smaller creatures.
I think 4 is best because it's usually how you're winning games, but I'm also playing to 2 Elspeth's in the main, so I want to see both of those as much as possible.
Is it recommended to run copies of Serum Visions or Anticipate in the deck?
Anticipate is never worthwhile as the selection doesn't outweigh the fact you're paying 2 mana for it. If you were playing a Control deck, you might consider a cantrip like Think Twice as it can generate card advantage when you have excess mana. Anticipate doesn't generate any advantage, it just replaces itself.
Much the same with Serum Visions, it helps dig through the top of your deck but it wastes a mana you could be using on something else. It's not a bad card, it's just a better card in combo decks. If you are running a combo in the deck you might like it but otherwise I'd take something else like a counterspell or more removal.
Serum Visions is not brainstorm or ponder or even preordain but it is the next best thing and it should be run to control land drops and find cards. Playing without visions is a mistake.
I disagree. Serum Visions isn't strong enough to play, especially since it is sorcery speed. We have the advantage of being able to play almost entirely on our opponent's turn, and playing Visions takes away from that.
Sure - everyone is allowed to have an opinion - but the 'we are in instant speed deck (Geist, cough, cough)' doesn't invalidate the use of Visions - most ppl run it that play Geist - you are in the minority with that view point.
Congratulations, Great Nate! Definitely looking forward to reading about your matchups & your list.
I've tried a couple adjustments this weekend. JulsSkogs, I also have gone back to Thundermaw Hellkite in the main to deal with the matchups where we really have to burn out the opponent quickly. BW Eldrazi also plays Lingering Souls, so TMaw is appealing there. TMaw has been a great topdeck against Tron in the past as well. Pia & Kiran are great, but they've gone back into the board since the Tron/Eldrazi matchups have gone up in popularity. I absolutely hate Aven Mindcensor in the main deck--it always feels too slow with 2 power, and doesn't do enough against anything but Amulet. Against Tron, turn 3 is usually enough time to get Tron online, and it is too slow of a clock. (At 3 power, Vendilion Clique has been an absolute beast for me.)
I know Great Nate mentioned a while back that he's been having good results with Kitchen Finks, and now that I've had the opportunity to cast it against Burn, Affinity, Merfolk, and even Boggles, it's just fantastic. It provides a body to trade, chump twice, or beat down on an open board, and Resto is a great combo with it. Its applications are a lot broader than Timely Reinforcements. Also, here is an article by Owen Turtenwald on Kitchen Finks vs other options: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/blitzing-naya/. He has a pretty strong view, but Timely Reinforcements has been good in the past for me also. Kor Firewalker seems too narrow now that Naya Zoo has become a thing--Kor Firewalker doesn't interact well with Wild Nacatl.
Re: number of Geists--I put 3 in the deck before, but I have gone back up to 4. I think you need a high threat density in this deck. You want to have the option to end the game very quickly, and Geist does that. He's even better now that Abzan has been on the downhill, where was the midrange deck against which he was at his worst. He's fine against Jund--the Jund board is easier to clear up than the Abzan board.
Sadly that is not correct - Abzan has overtaken Jund and is now considered by many to be the best GBx deck - which is a huge blow for us. We need answers to souls and need to think about changing sideboard answers..
Is it recommended to run copies of Serum Visions or Anticipate in the deck?
Anticipate is never worthwhile as the selection doesn't outweigh the fact you're paying 2 mana for it. If you were playing a Control deck, you might consider a cantrip like Think Twice as it can generate card advantage when you have excess mana. Anticipate doesn't generate any advantage, it just replaces itself.
Much the same with Serum Visions, it helps dig through the top of your deck but it wastes a mana you could be using on something else. It's not a bad card, it's just a better card in combo decks. If you are running a combo in the deck you might like it but otherwise I'd take something else like a counterspell or more removal.
Serum Visions is not brainstorm or ponder or even preordain but it is the next best thing and it should be run to control land drops and find cards. Playing without visions is a mistake.
I think Purge pulls its weight in the sideboard (I run 2x). Answers Lilli, black delve creatures, Rhino (or Bob if required) in BGx decks, answers Keranos/Blood Moon/Splinter Twin/Black delve creatures in Twin/Grixis Twin/Grixis Control decks.
I think there was a reasonable argument to consider running moon when Amulet was a deck. Moon is a card we have to be prepared for - it will generally hurt you just as much or more than BGx..Tron will draw out of it in most cases..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Plus side: Affinity and Infect rise - Im totally happy with this - great news!
Negative side: Tron rises - this is not super dooper bad - but IMO an unfavourable match-up. I think Eldrazi will continue to rise regardless of this announcement and a deck we have to think about anyway - seems unfavourable for us..
Will be interested to hear what you think Nate..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
My game plan was to get aggressive as their late game consists of casting Ullamog reliably. I was fortunate enough to land Geist early and drew a ghost quarter to blow up eldrazi temnple (up to 2x Ghost Quarter MD atm due to Tron and Eldrazi), path some would-be blockers then a bolt or two to the dome got me there winning 2-0 overall. This version was playing 4x heartless summoning - so having ways to kill that is useful - snare, EE, Wear or Purge. Overall, it seemed as though he had a slowish hand and this match-up is likely unfavourable for us. However, if you can stick an early Geist (no concerns about Pyroclasm as you do against Tron) somehow through hand disruption and have paths (paths are critical, you may even consider maindecking a '5th Path' in valorous stance) you can get there.
I lost to Jund in the same tourney the match after - I'm currently at 2x Celestial Purge, 2x Negate, 2x Explosives sb - but even with all that damn Lili always seems to get me. Any advice on the Liliana matchup anyone?
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Geist it not a control deck. Of course merfolk doesnt use it (every card is the same and it doesnt need to hit land drops and avoid flood like midrange decks do) - you are using straw man arguments. You are even stretching to 'Jund/Junk not using it' - I wont even comment on that line of argument.
Pure and simple you are just wrong - look at the successful UWR midrange Geist decks on mtg top 8 or whereever you like. Look at Great Nates list. Again you use the 'Twin' defence - that is so old and inaccurate..
If you dont like Serum Visions in the list - that's fine - but dont mislead others with your bizarre hate of the card..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Ya - obviously there are large differences between Modern and Legacy - the point still stands that Visions is the best filtering card we have in modern and not playing it is a huge mistake - i'd prefer to let the numbers do the talking then inaccurate theory crafting.
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Congrats to great nate - maybe a couple of negates in the board to help with combo? Pretty impressive that you were able to beat Tron (twice), Abzan and Tokens - seems like a nightmare gauntlet..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Sure - everyone is allowed to have an opinion - but the 'we are in instant speed deck (Geist, cough, cough)' doesn't invalidate the use of Visions - most ppl run it that play Geist - you are in the minority with that view point.
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Sadly that is not correct - Abzan has overtaken Jund and is now considered by many to be the best GBx deck - which is a huge blow for us. We need answers to souls and need to think about changing sideboard answers..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Serum Visions is not brainstorm or ponder or even preordain but it is the next best thing and it should be run to control land drops and find cards. Playing without visions is a mistake.
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Sweet..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Cool - list? Matchups?
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver